Moving to HD - Let's talk

[garyellis]

I plan to buy an HD tuner for my HTPC..Probably the HDHomerun...

So, i want to better understand what requirements this will drive in my HTPC..

1) Let's talk storage... today, I have (2) 250GB SATA 3 drives in RAID (internal)...I also have 2 external drives (1) 250 GB and (1) 160GB.

my recording today is done using the "Great" setting, i.e., 2GB/hr.

what is the equivalent XXGB/hr in HD?

And how much more storage should I count on adding? (I know its
dependant on how much HD vs non HD reording I do.) But let's say I need
to add maybe 2 TB of storage.

How is the best way to add a large amount of storage? My HTPC case only
has room for 3 internal drives.... But, I do have more sata ports inside, just
no more room... 750GB drives are expensive..And I
haven't seen 1TB internal drives yet. But will the larger internal drives
create the need for a bigger power supply? currently I have a 450W PS.
And will bigger PS and drives create more heat, thus requiring more fans?

Another option for storage could be external...I have about 10 USB 2.0 ports
and 3 firewire ports. I could certainly hang large drives from these. Even
though the external drives tend to be a little noisey for me. But the bigger
question for external drives is can the USB 2.0 bus sufficiently handle HD?
My external drives today handle SD without a problem. I am worried that
the USB bus might not be able to put all the HD data through the bus.

So, bottomline, what are the best options for adding large amounts of
storage that can handle HD content?

2) Processor... I have a AMD venice core 3200 + (not overclocked)...
Is this fast enough for HD? if not, what is? would overclocking help?
Dual core , quad core, single core?

Also, I have 2 MVP's and since they are not HD, yet (Still waiting patiently
Sage...hint, hint)... The HD content will need to be transcoded down. This
needs to be considered in processor requirements.

3) Graphics card ... Nvidia 6200TC ...cheap card, but with component out.
can this handle HD output well, or should I expect to go to something like
the Nvidia 6600?

4) Memory.... 1GB (2 x 512MB sticks)...Does HD drive any more memory
requirements? I can easily add 2 sticks of 512MB or replace and add 1GB
sticks...

5) Burning DVD with HD....Today I save shows to DVD, when I want to create
HD space. I can get (3) 1 hour shows (without commercials) on a DVD.
What happens when these are HD shows? will I need a different DVD
drive for burning and playing? And then the MVP question arises again.
With V6, I can watch homemade DVD's from my HTPC DVD drive onto
my MVP's..If I change these to HD DVD drives and play HD content, how
will Sage and the MVP handle it?

6) software...I use VideoRedo a lot...will it handle HD well?

7) customizations... I love comskip...how well does it work with HD content?

Probably many other things I didn't think of..please feel free to add any other requirments that HD might drive.

I would love comments on any or all of the stuff above.

As always, thanks for the discussion...

Gary Ellis

[Polypro]

There is no bitrate setting for HD, the stream is recorded right to the disk. Bitrates are ~15Mbs + or -. I have one 500 Gig drive dedicated to recordings. 500 Gigs is fine for me with around 50 Favorites...most of them HD. My SD is set to record at DVD Standard.

For playback, A 3200+ is fine, I have a 3000+. I don't transcode though.

I'd say a 6600GT is the minnimum...I know it handles HD up to 1920x1080 with FSE. You also get most of the PureVideo features supported.

1 Gig of RAM works fine for me.

P

[GKusnick]

I'm seeing around 6-8 GB/hour for HD recording. How much storage you need depends entirely on your recording and viewing habits. If you record, say, 20 hours a week (3 hrs/day), then 200 GB should be plenty for a week's worth of TV, assuming you delete everything after you watch it. On the other hand if you're a packrat who archives everything, then no amount of storage is enough. I have about 1100 GB in my Sage server and it's currently about 60% full with about 150 hours of recorded TV (some of it SD). So an additional 2 TB sounds like overkill to me, but again, it all depends on how you plan to use it.

For the same RPM, bigger disks don't draw any more power or generate any more heat than smaller disks; they just have more bits per platter. But obviously the more drives you have in the box, the more power you're going to need and the more heat you're going to generate. (Heat = spent power.)

USB 2.0 has plenty of bandwidth for HD. 480 Mbps translates to over 200 GB/hr, enough for at least 20 simultaneous HD streams. I personally have four USB HD tuners running off the same controller without issues.

[tmiranda]

When it comes to storage I'd go down the NAS road. NASLite+ works fantastic on really old/slow hardware and the software is cheap. See www.serverelements.com.

Tom

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by garyellis

1) Let's talk storage... today, I have (2) 250GB SATA 3 drives in RAID (internal)...I also have 2 external drives (1) 250 GB and (1) 160GB.

my recording today is done using the "Great" setting, i.e., 2GB/hr.

what is the equivalent XXGB/hr in HD?

About 6GB/hr. Theoretically an hour of ATSC would be 9GB, but most stations these days multicast so they don't use the full bandwidth

And how much more storage should I count on adding? (I know its
dependant on how much HD vs non HD reording I do.) But let's say I need
to add maybe 2 TB of storage.

That's totally up to you, HD isn't a lot bigger (only 2-3x) than PVRxxx SD recordings.

How is the best way to add a large amount of storage?

So, bottomline, what are the best options for adding large amounts of
storage that can handle HD content?

I'm very fond of the ReadyNAS line from Infrant. They're NAS devices that have tons of features, and are priced reasonably (they're more than the cheapo NAS's but not near as much as the enterprise ones).

One of the great features is they're expandable with their X-RAID system, you can put one drive in initially (say a 750GB), and then add more as your needs/budget dictate.

I've got an X6 and started with a 500GB drive. I just recently added a second which made it redundant. Just poped the drive in, powered it up, and a few hours later is was up.

The other great advantage (and this is true of any NAS) is that it easilly allows placement of the storage in a remote location where the heat and noise is not a problem. Not that the ReadyNAS is loud, but it is audible and that would be a problem in my HT.

2) Processor... I have a AMD venice core 3200 + (not overclocked)...
Is this fast enough for HD? if not, what is? would overclocking help?
Dual core , quad core, single core?

OTA/Cable HD, sure, a good video card will do most of the work.

Also, I have 2 MVP's and since they are not HD, yet (Still waiting patiently
Sage...hint, hint)... The HD content will need to be transcoded down. This
needs to be considered in processor requirements.

If your HTPC is your server, I think you're going to want to consider a hefty dual-core if you're needing to transcode for extenders.

3) Graphics card ... Nvidia 6200TC ...cheap card, but with component out.
can this handle HD output well, or should I expect to go to something like
the Nvidia 6600?

I'd get a 7 series if you can. If you're going to be upgrading your server/HTPC to dual core for transcoding, consider one of the passive 7950GTs, one of those will serve you well into the future (read they work for HD DVD/Blu-ray)

4) Memory.... 1GB (2 x 512MB sticks)...Does HD drive any more memory
requirements? I can easily add 2 sticks of 512MB or replace and add 1GB
sticks...

Not really, 1GB ought to be plenty.

5) Burning DVD with HD....Today I save shows to DVD, when I want to create
HD space. I can get (3) 1 hour shows (without commercials) on a DVD.
What happens when these are HD shows?

Well firstly, 45-minutes (a 1-hour show less commercials) will require a dual-layer disc.

will I need a different DVD drive for burning and playing?

That depends. I think what most people do is just burn the HD files onto DVDs as data. You don't need a different drive (save maybe a dual layer burner) but these won't play in anything but a PC since.

Another option that some have done, is to author them as HD DVDs. They'd play in HD DVD players, but not in Sage then.

But to answer the question that I think you're asking, no you can put HD files on a DVD, and no you don't need an HD DVD drive to play them.

And then the MVP question arises again.
With V6, I can watch homemade DVD's from my HTPC DVD drive onto
my MVP's..If I change these to HD DVD drives and play HD content, how
will Sage and the MVP handle it?

I don't know if Sage can deal with video files on a removeable disc (DVD).

However I do know that Sage can't handle HD DVDs.

6) software...I use VideoRedo a lot...will it handle HD well?

7) customizations... I love comskip...how well does it work with HD content?

I know Showanalyzer works well for HD. Comskip (when I used it long a go) workd well too.

[Lucas]

I can also vouch for Naslite, V2 these days.

My case can hold up to 5 drives. When I went to that number, heat and noise became a problem and there was no more room.

So I setup a Naslite server on an old PentiumII pc, added a 3ware raid card, moved my disks in and added some more disks. Result, 3TB of almost full storage!

[garyellis]

Great discussion so far.....

Greatly appreciated....

Thanks...


And Happy New Year..


Gary Ellis

[sniper's_scope]

if you are going to alot hard drives in this setup i would go to a rack mount setup as a small case isn't going to have enough cooling in it..