Is Linux the best option?

restorick · #1 01-10-2007, 07:00 PM

OK, I realize that I'm asking this in the Linux forum, and that there might be a little bias to the answers.

I ask sincerely, since I have a machine here at home that most likely can be a very good Linux box, but will not have enough horsepower to do XP and certainly not Vista.

I want to build a machine that will be stable, and I'm not planning on using it as a client for application software - not even e-mail. Sage will be all that runs on it, and if I'm going to submit my bride to a homebrewed PVR, it better be stable and reliable!

That's the basis for my question, plus I'm wondering if Linux will allow me to get the same or better performance out of a "lesser" machine.

I will also say that I am a complete Linux neophyte. I do have a Smoothwall firewall, but that had it's own Linux install with it. I don't have to do anything to it, except when there is a new feature I want to try. With that in mind, is Sage on Linux going to be too much of a learning curve?

Disclaimer - I'm actually a pretty smart computer guy when it comes to networking and Windows. Never had the need for Linux before, and not afraid to learn.

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback.
Rick

jbarr · #2 01-10-2007, 08:50 PM

Rick,

I have used Linux here and there, but my most experiance with Windows XP. If the box will be used as a server-only box, either really should work well. Windows XP Pro runs surprisingly well on "lesser" boxes, provides you don't throw too much at it at once. Here's how I see it:

Windows XP Pluses:

Despite many naysayers, I think that Windows XP Pro is quite stable. It only breaks down when you throw too much at it. But if you are using it as an server, then logically, you wouldn't install that much on it. You won't be installing Office. You won't be installing Web browser enhancements. You won't be installing games. Likely, you will just install the base OS, current service packs and hotfixes, necessary drivers, SageTV, and any supporting apps.
Several SageTV options exist that aren't available to Linux. I believe VideoReDo is one. Though this may not be important.
SUpport is typically a snap as the majority of the known universe uses some form of Windows.

Windows XP Minuses:

It's expensive. Unless you are using a less-than-legal copy, you'll have to shell out a couple hundred bucks--not always a viable solution for home users.
It does have overhead that may tax your system. But again, if you install it in a minimalist way, and disable all the other crud that you're not using, you may be surprised by its speed.

All in all, I'd say that either has its merits. Just understand that Linux can have a steep learning curve, and when it comes to a system that you will rely on for day-to-day use, you need to be able to support it. You will certainly learn a lot of new skills, and if you're a geek like many of us, you may actually have fun with it!

Linux is definitely known for its stability, and it can definitely be run in minimalist ways to fly on lesser machines. Just don't overlook the reality that Windows XP is also a very good choice.

Oh, and how about sharing your machine specs? What they are may answer your question quicker...

blade · #3 01-10-2007, 08:52 PM

IMO the only benefit of going with linux over XP is saving the cost of the OS. I ran a celeron 366mhz with 320 mb of ram as my dedicated Sage server for almost 2 years. It had no problems running the sage service on windows XP. In two years it never crashed, never missed a recording, and was only rebooted when the power failed or I was tinkering with something.

As far as stability is concerned you should be more worried about the hardware than the OS IMO.

restorick · #4 01-10-2007, 09:46 PM

@Jim,

Thanks for the reply. I agree with most of what you say about Windows XP. I have an older Centrino laptop loaded with XP Pro, SQL server, and a host of piggish foreground and background apps (Office, Visio, Adobe CS2, etc.) and it never misses a beat. However, I paid nearly $2500 for it. And, because I've had many years of experience dealing with Windows, I have developed a habit of rebooting my equipment once a week, whether it needs it or not (man, I miss Novell...)

I'm trying to avoid having to invest a ton in the computer hardware just to run the OS, especially if the OS isn't significantly better. My gut tells me that with XP and Vista, I will need to eventually upgrade the processor, memory and perhaps the motherboard. While I like to tinker with computers, I can't see spending $1200 on a box just to do Sage.

OTOH, I have an older Dell 400SC with a 2.4 celeron processor that can easily be repartitioned and formatted to boot Linux. The only additional investment would be the tuner cards and an upgraded video card, which I would have to purchase no matter which OS I choose. I can upgrade the Dell to a P4 3.0gHz HT processor, but I will then also need to upgrade the memory as well. Granted, between the two I will need to invest about $250 or so, but I would rather use the cash to get a MediaMVP or a nifty new remote!

@blade,

Thanks also for the reply, and I agree wholeheartedly that I would be more concerned about the tuner hardware than the OS. I am very familiar with XP and wouldn't hesitate to go that route. But if Linux "breathes" better on the hardware I already have, then I won't need to either beef up this box or build a new one.

Bottom line for me is ease of use (for my bride) and performance. If I'm not sacrificing performance by going with Linux on the 2.4 celeron box, then I can use the leftover cash to take an extra vacation or buy that Bluray player! And unless the Linux version is significantly more difficult to navigate and use, I will be able to keep the wife happy (and my parents too, when they come to visit).

My setup will be as follows:

Sage server machine (hopefully the 400SC):
Celeron 2.4
512MB memory
Gigabyte 7600GS AGP video card
80GB boot and swap file disk
300GB DVR recording disk
DVD-RW drive
2 NTSC tuner cards (either the PVR1500 or the ATI 550)
1 ATSC OTA tuner card (most likely the Avermedia or the HDHomerun)

Dish 211 HD receiver
Dish SD receiver (not sure of the model - it's 2.5 years old)
Media MVP media extender (possibly adding another in a few months)

Nothing overly exotic. If there's something in my requirements that will disqualify the Linux version, please let me know.

Thanks again for the feedback, and sorry for the long-winded reply,
Rick

ChePazzo · #5 01-10-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by restorick

I'm actually a pretty smart computer guy when it comes to networking and Windows.

I thought you weren't supposed to use the words "Windows" and "Networking" in the same sentence . . . .

That being said, I'll reenforce what others have said: If this is a dedicated machine, the OS shouldn't make or break your stability.

I ran on WinXP for about 2 years. The only problems I had were when I really needed to reboot and someone was watching something on the extender. Of course, the reason that I needed to reboot often was because SageTV was running on our main family PC. But Sage still ran flawlessly on it.

I chose to move SageTV to a dedicated server because I didn't want anything I did on another machine to affect the recording or playback of video. I also wanted to be able to move my other PCs behind a separate router on a separate subnet in my home network. No need for the high bandwidth video traffic to slow down anything else

I chose Linux for this because:
- it was free (although I had to buy a new SageTV license so it wasn't really free)
- I could put it in the basement without a monitor or keyboard or mouse and control it remotely from anywhere quite easily and securely.

If you haven't already, read the FAQ: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15316

ChePazzo · #6 01-10-2007, 10:15 PM

Also, remember that that MVPs only do SD, but (fingers crossed) there will be an HD extender soon.

If all of your playback is to a placeshifter or extender, you won't need to buy any video out cards.

I moved from Windows to Linux and my wife never noticed a thing, other than the video doesn't sputter any more when she's watching a clip while I'm trying something CPU intensive on the WinXP box....

I got a P4 2.4GHz/1024MB (30G HDD) PC for $100, added a pair of 400GB drives ($230 total) and moved over my PVR500 and PVR250. The only other addition I can forsee is a GE NIC for streaming to multiple MVPs.

ecoolman · #7 01-10-2007, 10:59 PM

You'll probably want to check out the list of supported tuner cards, 3 of the 4 you listed aren't there for the Linux version:

http://www.sage.tv/linuxOEMedition.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by restorick

@Jim,

2 NTSC tuner cards (either the PVR1500 or the ATI 550)
1 ATSC OTA tuner card (most likely the Avermedia or the HDHomerun)

Nothing overly exotic. If there's something in my requirements that will disqualify the Linux version, please let me know.

blade · #8 01-11-2007, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by restorick

@blade,

Thanks also for the reply, and I agree wholeheartedly that I would be more concerned about the tuner hardware than the OS. I am very familiar with XP and wouldn't hesitate to go that route. But if Linux "breathes" better on the hardware I already have, then I won't need to either beef up this box or build a new one.

I was actually thinking more about the motherboard and other hardware. For example Via, Ali, Sis, etc... aren't very good for HTPCs and tend to have stability problems. Of course there are exceptions. I'm sure some of them work ok, but as a general rule it is usually suggested to use Intel or Nvidia chipsets. Then of course you have the other odd problems caused by cheap ram, power supply, etc...

If you're not going to use the server for playback then you don't need a fancy video card. If you do plan to use it for playback then windows may be the better choice even though linux might provide more "breathing room". I haven't kept track, but last time I checked there wasn't any decoders for linux that could match the Nvidia decoder.

The only concern I would have about the server's power would be if you decided to go with the MVP and needed to transcode videos. The HD extender that is supposed to be released in Q2 will have native support for most file types so if you pick one of those up then that would no longer be a concern.

restorick · #9 01-11-2007, 08:36 AM

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