Doesn't STOP after end of show - plays next

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by astribli

Tivo knows how to do this as does Comcast PVR as does Meedio, etc. Just saying.

So what? Sage is Sage, Tivo is Tivo. Choose your product, if you like Tivo, use it. Endless comparisons between different products is utterly pointless.

[mayamaniac]

And as GKusnick said, SageTV is a one server and multiple clients system, while Tivo is not. So its much easier for Tivo to implement features without having to deal with how it affects the clients.

I said many times, I like the idea of giving the users the option to choose, but lets put this complaint to rest already. I think if enough people report this feature to SageTV, they will get added in future releases. As for now, stop crying over something thats not that serious of a problem. This is really a minute problem and I assume only bothers a very small percentage of users. There are many missing features that are more important than this, like being able to play a CD. SageTV is far from perfect, but its still better than the competitions.

[astribli]

Wow. Talk about arrogance. I'm just trying to make the product better by improving one little feature. Guess this is not a place to ask for features. Sheesh.

[astribli]

Originally Posted by AngelofDeth

Tivo asks you if you want to delete the show when watching live tv, rather than just playing the next show? I would consider this broken behavior, but thats just me. Of coarse if there is an option for this, thats one thing. But since there isn't an option for doing in Sage, I don't know why you keep beating this dead horse.

Guess you don't know how to read my posts. If I start watching a RECORDED show, at the end, Tivo asks me if I want to delete it. Don't know why you can't understand we are talking about recorded shows NOT live.

And for all you people here that just say run away, we don't care about Tivo, pretty arrogant considering Tivo has MILLIONS of customers, but I really didn't want to get into this is better than that. Was merely trying to point out that other DVR's work can do this so it should be a simple thing for Sage to as well. The net effect is then Sage becomes a better product as anyone that has used other DVR's or Tivo will enjoy the Sage experience that much more.

Sorry for trying to help. What a rude place.

[Wheemer]

If you let the recordings finish and then watch them it will definately ask you to delete when the option is set.

You are probably trying to watch them as they are still recording, which is your choice, but sage will treat it just like watching live tv.

[coppit]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

"The recordings part of the UI" is a fiction with no meaning to the core. Similarly, "is_scheduled_recording" is an artificial distinction that exists only in the mind of the user, since scheduled recordings can be accessed through the program guide, and unscheduled (i.e. "live") recordings can be accessed through the recordings list.

As a user I don't care what the technical details are. All we can do as users is express our requirements in terms that we can all understand. If the software is not designed to accommodate the requirement, that's not my concern. It would be akin to Ford telling customers that ABS brakes are not going to be supported because the existing brake systems aren't designed for ABS.

If Frey has officially designated this feature request as having a low benefit to cost ratio, so be it. I can understand that. But let's not pretend that the software design is some being of its own that is not under the control of the developers. In the end it's the developer saying "we don't want to satisfy your request".

P.S. I mean "requirement" in the software engineering sense of the word.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by astribli

Don't know why you can't understand we are talking about recorded shows NOT live.

No, you seem to have a problem grasping that it isn't a recorded show if it hasn't finished recording when you watch it. It's still live.

Originally Posted by astribli

And for all you people here that just say run away, we don't care about Tivo, pretty arrogant considering Tivo has MILLIONS of customers

Standard VCRs still have more users than Tivo, we wouldn't want to have to rewind at the end of every show either.
It's not arrogance to see little value in your endless arguments. You've asked, you've been told it may be considered for inclusion, but in case you missed it the first time: Sage is not Tivo. Not arrogance but fact.

Originally Posted by astribli

Was merely trying to point out that other DVR's work can do this so it should be a simple thing for Sage to as well.

Why do you persist in saying that it should be a simple thing when you know little or nothing of the coding behind it?

Originally Posted by astribli

What a rude place.

Like many of your other comments, I'm sure most wouldn't agree.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by coppit

All we can do as users is express our requirements in terms that we can all understand.

My point was that you haven't done that. Instead you've used made-up terms like "is_scheduled_recording" without defining them. Bear in mind that any definition you propose must account for the fact that User A can view a program as "live TV" through the program guide, while User B simultaneously views that same program as a "scheduled recording" through the recordings list. It would also help if your proposal is different from those that have already been considered and rejected higher up the thread.

Originally Posted by coppit

In the end it's the developer saying "we don't want to satisfy your request".

Not necessarily. They could be saying, "Your request doesn't take into account the unique features of our product and is not sufficiently well thought out to be implementable." I believe that's what's happening here.

[coppit]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

My point was that you haven't done that. Instead you've used made-up terms like "is_scheduled_recording" without defining them. Bear in mind that any definition you propose must account for the fact that User A can view a program as "live TV" through the program guide, while User B simultaneously views that same program as a "scheduled recording" through the recordings list. It would also help if your proposal is different from those that have already been considered and rejected higher up the thread.

Here are two alternatives, each would work well for me. (1) Only continue recording if there actually is a client that selected the show from the guide. (2) Instead of asking to switch channels, ask to continue recording. Sorry if this has been requested above--if so, count me as another vote. I'm also happy to clarify, but I don't have the energy to write a formal specification if that's the kind of precision you want.

Not necessarily. They could be saying, "Your request doesn't take into account the unique features of our product and is not sufficiently well thought out to be implementable." I believe that's what's happening here.

Again, there is no such thing as unimplementable, unless we're talking about theory of computation uncomputability. My point is that almost no request is "impossible", just "more costly than we want to invest".

[crowland]

I've been watching this thread and I'm glad I came from ReplayTV and not Tivo, cause I might be banished forever...

I am 99% sure Sage knows if a show was started through the Program Guide or through Sage Recordings. If not it could easily.

If it is started through Sage Recordings, even if it is currently recording "Live TV", it could easily stop playback at the end of the recording and act like a recording (i.e. give you the delete option and not record the next show).

If the playback is started from the program guide, regardless of the program type (Favorite Recording, etc.) just treat it like Live TV as it does currently.

So basically it would not need to do anything different unless the program was started from Sage Recordings. This would seem to be trivial, assuming they (Frey) would like it to work this way.

This solution would solve most of the requests in this thread while not adversly affecting the users who never watch TV this way anyway.

Just my 2 cents. Personally, I usually just watch previously recorded shows so it is not such an issue to me, but doing it this way seems to make far more sense, regardless of which other DVR software you are comparing it with...

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by crowland

I am 99% sure Sage knows if a show was started through the Program Guide or through Sage Recordings.

You'd be 99% wrong then. I don't mean to be rude, but this has been explained several times already. All the server knows is that some client wants to watch that show. It has no idea what menu the request came from or even what UI is loaded on that client. I can easily make a custom UI that intermixes scheduled recordings and live airings in one unified list (and some people have seriously argued for making this the default). I can even bring up a Studio window and type in watch requests by hand, from the keyboard, without going through any menu. So the idea of having the server decide whether or not to record the next show based on which menu you started viewing from just isn't going to fly.

What the client UI does when playback is finished is a different story; that can perhaps be tinkered with somewhat (although Andy has said the devs are happy with the way it works now). But the decision to keep recording or not has to be made by the server, without reference to the client UI, before any option dialogs are displayed to the user.

[nielm]

Originally Posted by astribli

Guess this is not a place to ask for features. Sheesh.

Actually, you are right. As has already been mentioned, the place to ask for features is the support request form on the Sage website. You can discuss the feature here, and you may get (and you have got) arguments why it is not as easy at it seems, or why it is not such a good idea in certain situations etc, but it is unlikely that the developers will log it on the roadmap as something to do.

(the same goes for bugreports -- bugs reported only here are unlikley to be added to Sages bug tracking system)

[crowland]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

You'd be 99% wrong then

How do you know this? It would be pretty simple to keep track of what clients were active and what they were watching and how each show was started.

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I don't mean to be rude

You are, but frankly I don't care one way or the other. Forums are for users to express individual ideas. Feel free.

Originally Posted by GKusnick

All the server knows is that some client wants to watch that show. It has no idea what menu the request came from or even what UI is loaded on that client.

As I said before, this would be trivial to implement.

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I can easily make a custom UI that intermixes scheduled recordings and live airings in one unified list.

Isn't this the Program Guide?

[gplasky]

Scenario 1:
I have various TV programs scheduled to record at 9 am. At 9:05 am I go in to "Sage TV Recordings" and see shows I have recorded. At the top of the list is the show I'm currently recording. If I click on it to watch it for a bit should Sage treat it as if I'm watching Live TV or as a recording?

Scenario 2:
It is now 9:10 am and I am in the Guide (EPG) and I am scrolling through. I stop at the program that I started recording at 9 am and decide to take a quick peek at it. Now that I am "watching" it should Sage treat it as a recording or as Live TV?

So based on those scenarios how would Sage know for sure if I was watching or recording? It's more difficult to program than you think and that is the point you seem to be missing. Unless Sage connected to a webcam and could optically see you sitting in fromt of the TV watching it.

Suggest away. This forum is pretty open. But telling someone how they don't know how to do their job (the Sage programmers) or what should or shouldn't be easy to do probably isn't going to score a lot of points around here or anywhere. When was the last time you welcomed that sort of critique at your job?


Gerry

[astribli]

That's easy.

Scenario 2 - You started recording it, at whatever time, so therefore it is now a recording. This is true because at the end of the show, now that it is a recording, the recording will stay on the hard disk until someone or something deletes it.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by astribli

That's easy.

Scenario 2 - You started recording it, at whatever time, so therefore it is now a recording. This is true because at the end of the show, now that it is a recording, the recording will stay on the hard disk until someone or something deletes it.

But I pulled it up to look at it out of the EPG Program Guide. When I click any program in the EPG it becomes a recording. SO how will Sage know the difference? Only because it started now instead of being scheduled before? Can't program that kind of logic either. I might pull a program up in the Guide and tell it to manual record it. And if I watch some of it should it be treated as Live or a recording? That's just some of the difficulty in understanding that it's not as easy as everyone thinks to "just simply program it".

Gerry

[BobPhoenix]

Alot of the debate on this might go away if we could designate tuner(s) as LiveTV only. A show ends on a LiveTV tuner - delete it because it's Live no if ands or buts it is just gone - because the buffer is deleted when you press stop. You want to record it by pressing the record button - another non-live tuner is started at that point in the show recording - you only get from that point on nothing before. A client wants to watch LiveTV but all LiveTV tuners are active - Popup message informing them that they cannot watch Live TV at this time. You want to watch a recording that is currently still in progress a LiveTV tuner is used to view the Video.

[GKusnick]

Since we're rehashing all the old arguments, I'll repeat what I said in my very first post on this thread and then I'm done.

There should be a properties file option to disable_liveTV_trackthrough. Then the minority who find this feature objectionable could turn it off. Any further discussion of what to replace it with probably belongs in the Customizations forum, now that the Sage devs have made it clear they're satisfied with the way it works now.

[jkohn]

Originally Posted by gplasky

But I pulled it up to look at it out of the EPG Program Guide. When I click any program in the EPG it becomes a recording. SO how will Sage know the difference? Only because it started now instead of being scheduled before? Can't program that kind of logic either. I might pull a program up in the Guide and tell it to manual record it. And if I watch some of it should it be treated as Live or a recording? That's just some of the difficulty in understanding that it's not as easy as everyone thinks to "just simply program it".

Gerry

Sage does know the difference between a recording versus "live", because it's smart enough to delete the "live" recordings when you finish watching them. So I don't buy this argument that Sage doesn't know whether it's a recording or not.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by jkohn

Sage does know the difference between a recording versus "live", because it's smart enough to delete the "live" recordings when you finish watching them. So I don't buy this argument that Sage doesn't know whether it's a recording or not.

Brilliant, full circle.
The complaint here is that Sage doesn't delete live recordings when it doesn't know...