REQUEST: Buitl-in ZOOM feature for 4:3 sources.

[debennett2]

I don't know how many times I watch a show that is broadcast in standard def that is emulating widescreen in some way. This normally would not be an issue if my source was directly hooked up to my TV as my TV would handle this by zooming in and filling the screen with video. There should be a way for this to happen automagically in Sage as well I think. Anyone else have a desire for this?

Thanks!

[Razillian]

I would assume you are talking about wanting Sage to make the decision that the show it is playing is in 4:3 aspect ration with black bars on the top and bottom and so should be stretched to become a true 16:9 picture? If that is the case, what if it is wrong on the assumption? What if you screen is not true 16:9? What if? What if? Too many variables in a Sage system (just read through the posts on how many people have HD working flawless and how many people don't and then look at their hardware. TONS of variables there).

If you are sying to manually do this, I can do it already (and do). 4 buttons on my firefly to change to each aspect ratio. I have FILL set to an additional horizontal and vertical stretch to truely fill the screen (get rid of the black bars on the top and bottom), if a show was broadcast in 4:3 but filmed in widescreen I press the FILL button and poof, 16:9 in all its glory.

[BobPhoenix]

Where is the option for "Why would I want to do that?" I prefer to look at my videos without distortion. If it is 4x3 I want it in 4x3.

[debennett2]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

Where is the option for "Why would I want to do that?" I prefer to look at my videos without distortion. If it is 4x3 I want it in 4x3.

You completely missed the point. You know how sometimes you get black bars on the top and bottom of a show even though it is being broadcast in SD. It is suppose to be some kine of SD widescreen. Know waht I mean? Well if you have a widescreen television, you need to ahve the option to zoom that in (not distort only zoom in) to make that video fill the screen and NOT have black bars on all sides.

[debennett2]

If that is the case, what if it is wrong on the assumption? What if you screen is not true 16:9?

That would have to be something a developer answers. If it made the wrong assumption then it doesn't work and needs fixed. If it's not true 16:9 then there needs to be an option for that.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by debennett2

You completely missed the point. You know how sometimes you get black bars on the top and bottom of a show even though it is being broadcast in SD. It is suppose to be some kine of SD widescreen. Know waht I mean? Well if you have a widescreen television, you need to ahve the option to zoom that in (not distort only zoom in) to make that video fill the screen and NOT have black bars on all sides.

I already have my 16x9 option setup to do that with 133% zoom on the vertical. When I see a "Letterboxed" show I switch to 16x9. Easy as can be.

[debennett2]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

I already have my 16x9 option setup to do that with 133% zoom on the vertical. When I see a "Letterboxed" show I switch to 16x9. Easy as can be.

thanks for your reply. I am jsut trying to save a step and not have to determine what the source is (for my wife and whomever) and just let it happen. Using these toggles can be a little much when moving from one format to another while surfing or not knowing that button exists or what 16:9 or 4:3 means.

[Razillian]

Why don't you just add the dynamic aspect ratio STVi from nielm and stop trying to screw up my SageTV then?

[debennett2]

Originally Posted by Razillian

Why don't you just add the dynamic aspect ratio STVi from nielm and stop trying to screw up my SageTV then?

I'm asking for an OPTION to do this. Who is screwing up YOUR Sage?

[ToxMox]

You can accomplish this by using Nielm's auto aspect ratio switcher. Basically setup your 16x9 to have a 133% zoom on the vertical then teach the plugin which shows have the bars and set them to use the 16x9 AR. The problem with the feature you are asking for would require Sage to do some kind of analysis on the recorded file to determine if the black bars are there somehow and I just don't see that happening. There is also a toggle command now for AR switching so you can set one button on your remote to cycle ARs for when you are watching something that you haven't taught the plugin yet.

[jbarr]

Why not just re-map a button on your remote to toggle the aspect ratios? The key is to take the time to correctly set the proper aspect ratio for the each mode to what looks good on your TV. Once it's set up, cycling through the AR's is simple and effortless. Just record a show that's letterboxed and a show that's not letterboxed, and then play with the settings until you get it looking great. It shouldn't take you more than a few minutes. It will take some trial-and-error, but leys gives *you* finely tune just how the image will look--regardless of your TV's physical aspect ratio.

And most importantly, *you* maintain control of how shows are displayed.

[Razillian]

Adding the option to the default Sage STV/program would increase the size of the program, whether that option is turned on or off it would still get loaded as part of the program. This leads to bloatware, thus ruining my Sage. As opposed to having the STVi that you can install, or not, depending on your preference. If you don't install the STVi, no additional memory or CPU requirements.

Plus adding it to the core Sage program takes away from the Frey developers time to do other things and increases the amount of code they have to keep track of and take into account when they change something else (ripple effects).

The STVi is there to make screen size changes automatic. The Sage core has the ability to adjust the zoom levels to make 16:9 broadcast as 4:3 fit your screen. I just don't see what the problem is and why you want to change everyones core sage when in 2 minutes you can change your own to do what you want and not have to affect mine?

[derelicte1]

Along these lines, I'd also like a non-linear stretch that makes 4x3 shows fill a 16x9 screen without making the people look fat. It does this by zooming in slightly, and stretching the edges of the screen while leaving the center portion alone. My tv does this perfectly, but only if you feed it an 480i or 480p signal.

Saying "sage can't do that, yada yada yada" is crap. If Mce and myth can do, sage can too.

[jbarr]

Originally Posted by derelicte1

Along these lines, I'd also like a non-linear stretch that makes 4x3 shows fill a 16x9 screen without making the people look fat. It does this by zooming in slightly, and stretching the edges of the screen while leaving the center portion alone. My tv does this perfectly, but only if you feed it an 480i or 480p signal.

Saying "sage can't do that, yada yada yada" is crap. If Mce and myth can do, sage can too.

Can't that be adjusted tweaking the 16x9 Aspect Ratio settings? I thought all modes were fully adjustable. Or are you looking for "automatic" adjustment?

[walter scott]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

Where is the option for "Why would I want to do that?" I prefer to look at my videos without distortion. If it is 4x3 I want it in 4x3.

he is referring to a 16:9 AR program that is in a 4:3 AR frame. In this case zooming on a 16:9 display will not distort.

[appelm]

Originally Posted by derelicte1

Along these lines, I'd also like a non-linear stretch that makes 4x3 shows fill a 16x9 screen without making the people look fat. It does this by zooming in slightly, and stretching the edges of the screen while leaving the center portion alone. My tv does this perfectly, but only if you feed it an 480i or 480p signal.

Saying "sage can't do that, yada yada yada" is crap. If Mce and myth can do, sage can too.

I was doing this successfully using dscaler's non-linear stretch. It works very well. Only problem is now I got an hdhomerun and have HD recordings as well. Obviously you don't want to stretch HD recordings and I can't figure out a good way to toggle dscaler on and off for SD vs HD (any suggestions?). As a result, I had to just turn off non-linear stretch.

But if you don't have HD sources then dscaler works very well and its not hard to setup.

[BobPhoenix]

I would rather have the picture 4x3 because even with the setting your talking about you can see the stretch at the edges which distorts the image. My TV has that and I have it on because it is suppose to save the tube so I've had to live with it. But short fat people at the edges is still a distortion - much much less noticable than what SageTV is capable of but noticeable. Now if my TV had the orbiting feature like SageTV does (to save the tube) I would switch to that in a heartbeat. Much nicer and in a dark room you don't even notice it moving if you set it to 15 minutes.

Just my 2¢

[derelicte1]

Originally Posted by appelm

I was doing this successfully using dscaler's non-linear stretch. It works very well. Only problem is now I got an hdhomerun and have HD recordings as well. Obviously you don't want to stretch HD recordings and I can't figure out a good way to toggle dscaler on and off for SD vs HD (any suggestions?). As a result, I had to just turn off non-linear stretch.

But if you don't have HD sources then dscaler works very well and its not hard to setup.

Really? I'll have to look into that. Thanks!

I do have hd and sd sources, though. This is were an automatic zoom feature is needed. Actually, an automatic zoom might not be needed. In mce, all of my sd channels use the non-linear stretch but the hd channels are not stretched (4x3 shows have pillar boxes, 16x9 shows fill the screen correctly).

Can sage do this?

[derelicte1]

Originally Posted by jbarr

Can't that be adjusted tweaking the 16x9 Aspect Ratio settings? I thought all modes were fully adjustable. Or are you looking for "automatic" adjustment?

Actually I want both. The non-linear stretch for sd material and no stretch for hd material.

Cant this be done? I don't know. The searching I did about this turned up it wasn't a zoom mode sage featured. I believe you can only do linear (equal) stretching in either dimension. Maybe you have to see it to understand how it works.

I'm still looking for a good example with three circles to show what is being done.

When done correctly, it works very well and is not noticeable.

www.trbarry.com/Displaying_4x3_on_16x9.htm

[stanger89]

Everything you describe would need to be done in the decoder, the decoder would need to analyze the file, determine the aspect ratio, the used/active aspect ratio, on the fly, and then zoom/crop/stretch based on this computed aspect ratio.

I'm not aware of any decoders that can do that. I don't think even Theatertek with it's awesome AR control can do that.