Sage 6.2.10 - Dynamic Menu Still a problem

[mike1961]

I have to be honest and say that I have tried all 3 themes and the guide looks worse to me than before. It's just harder to read. Maybe it's my glasses or the colors but there just appears to be a glare that was not there before. Maybe it's the "hi-res" background that makes it look like a a glare or perhaps some people are more sensitive to a strong blue background.

Regarding the question about blue - I don't mind the blue too much if it is not so strong. But my wife doesn't not like it at all. She is extremely visual. I can say that given the retina in the eyes have 3 cones that detect red, green, and blue and any mixture for the complete spectrum, if one looks at solid red, green or blue then the eyes will tire a lot faster and the primary colors are harder to look at for an extended period of time.

I know when we look at other programs on a computer such as the internet or Microsoft Word, etc. they are mostly "black on white (or off white/gray background) and that includes this Sage Support forum. So, I can understand one not wanting the "strong" blue background. I don't mind blue if it is very light but I think the blue Sage uses is too strong. Also, I'm glad all my TV's are LCD and not Plasma as I would think that strong blue background could cause a burn effect. I want to upgrade but I have to find some way out of that strong blue background - it's just too much so I'm going to look for another theme or experiment more with other backgrounds.

I like the idea of themes but I just have to find one that is either similar to the light background I had before or the wife may not like it.

On another note - I think we may get more chatter if this thread were moved to the main Sage disc forum.

Thanks,

Mike

[GKusnick]

My Cogs theme has two different backgrounds to choose from:



If neither of those suits you, you could try making your own. But as others have said, white text on a light background is never going to look good, so if you insist on a light background, you'll probably want to look into creating your own theme with different text colors.

Originally Posted by mike1961

On another note - I think we may get more chatter if this thread were moved to the main Sage disc forum.

Since we're talking about how to customize the color scheme, the Customizations forum seems appropriate to me.

[mike1961]

I just installed your Cogs theme and it is definitely "softer" or lighter than the strong blue and is similar to what I had before so it just might "fly" well with my wife. But, out of curiosity how do I check out the brown background?

(EDITED: never mind - I figured it out, it's where you select background images).

I never had "light" on a light background but I think before the latest version, it just seemed to work as you can see from my posted jpg files. I certainly like the way the guide looks a lot better with your theme than the one that comes with Sage. But, again, some of it may be personal preference.

Thanks,
Mike

[CollinR]

Just move these to your SD theme directory.

Rename each one at a time to background.jpg and restart SageTV, if you like one enjoy it. If you don't, change the name back and rename a different one.

If you totally botch it, use background-org.jpg and it'll be back like it was.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mike1961

I know when we look at other programs on a computer such as the internet or Microsoft Word, etc. they are mostly "black on white (or off white/gray background) and that includes this Sage Support forum.

My color preferences weren't the guiding factor in SageTV's UI design, but I've always thought such things were totally backwards for trying to use a monitor to emulate black ink on white paper and have read articles to that effect too, though I can't remember references to any of them right now. (Yes, I understand a word processor is trying to show you what you will get when you print the document, but I seem to recall pre-WYSIWYG editors using dark backgrounds.) I set my programming editor to use a dark background & find websites that use light text on a dark background to be easier to read. Otherwise, staring at a bright white screen all day just irritates my eyes -- sort of like staring at a light bulb for hours... which is essentially what my LCD screen is.

- Andy

[CollinR]

100% agree Opus

I was going to say if there was anything about that BG I didn't like it wasn't the blue color but the brighter highlights that are more active right where the program guide is located on the screen.

Here is another, same basic design but I flipped and mirrored it. Then shifted it upwards to get the highlights more up out of the guide data space. Then I used gamma to darken it a little as you mention.

Similar but different, people won't like the highlights in the detailed info space.

This is all personal preference but SageTV is one of the few to make it so easy to make the software conform to your individual preferences.

[mike1961]

Originally Posted by Opus4

but I've always thought such things were totally backwards for trying to use a monitor to emulate black ink on white paper and have read articles to that effect too, though I can't remember references to any of them right now. (Yes, I understand a word processor is trying to show you what you will get when you print the document, but I seem to recall pre-WYSIWYG editors using dark backgrounds.)
- Andy

You are correct that pre-WYSIWYG editors used dark backgrounds but actually they were black backgrounds (or in other words - the CRT's pixels were completely off) and therefore did not stimulate the retina at all (the background) and so would tire the eyes the least of all. However, white is neutral (since it is an even mixture of red-green-blue and therefore would tire the cones in the retina far less than viewing only one of the primary colors). Either way - I've looked that the themes and I'm going to try and "sneak" one by the wife and see if it passes. I'm starting to like the idea of themes so the only drawback at this time is there is a limited number of them but that can only improve with time.

Thanks,
Mike

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mike1961

You are correct that pre-WYSIWYG editors used dark backgrounds but actually they were black backgrounds (or in other words - the CRT's pixels were completely off) and therefore did not stimulate the retina at all (the background) and so would tire the eyes the least of all.

Actually, those are older than the ones I'm referring to... those may have been monochrome monitors and could only display white (or orange or green for some of them). I meant color monitors back in DOS days when I used WordStar or WordPerfect (can't remember which one) & it used yellow text on a blue background.

However, white is neutral (since it is an even mixture of red-green-blue and therefore would tire the cones in the retina far less than viewing only one of the primary colors).

While white is neutral, on a monitor it is a bright emissive color that I find to be hard on my eyes. From this conversation, I got curious if there were any studies that might shed some light on the issue (oops; unintentional pun, but I'll leave it). I didn't spend a long time searching for the info but I found sites stating that black on white is obviously the best color combo & is easiest on eyes with some unnamed studies to prove it, and I found sites stating that the opposite is obviously true, also with unnamed studies as proof. I tend to think they each had no real proof & were stating their own opinion. I probably used the wrong search terms, since I didn't see much of anything that looked like there was any actual research behind it -- one place even had a Q&A section with "Q: Do you have any scientific proof? A: No."

Interestingly, a lot of places talking about this only discussed black on white vs. white on black, as if no other color choices were possible. This seemed like a straw man argument style to me, since I don't like white on black either.

My favorite site stated that yellow on blue is the best because blue is physically hard to focus on, so it makes a great background color & yellow is its opponent color, so it makes a good foreground color. (This site used references, but nothing I could check.) I say that was my favorite site because those are the colors I've used for years -- I can feel a difference when I minimize the white windows & look at just my yellow-on-blue programming editor instead. That reminds me: I saw several forum comments saying black on white is the best, while the next post says that their eye doctor recommended light text on a dark background to reduce eyestrain & they said it worked for them. Quite a few people said the same thing I said above: looking at a solid white background all day feels like staring at a light bulb.

Anyway: I have no real proof either way; I just know my color preference... which is probably all that's really important: your own color preference. Even the site mentioning that yellow on blue is scientifically better essentially stated that it still depends on the person & how they perceive color.

Oh, btw: while the forum does use black text, I just checked & the color behind the text is slightly blue, with the red & green components reduced equally.

- Andy

[CollinR]

I'm actually kinda liking the red one, this is really odd for me. Someone else might try it, it has a fire and ice kind of effect thats catchy.

[dvd_maniac]

Is the dynamic menu import updated for 6.2.10? Like the search pages and such?

[nielm]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

Is the dynamic menu import updated for 6.2.10? Like the search pages and such?

yes. If some items do not work in your custom menu.xml, copy the ones that do from the updated default menu