Sage 7.0 Wishlist

[Brent]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

This is correct. SageMC can initiate comskip after a recording completes, but it does not include comskip monitor. In fact, this feature is really just legacy code and not recommended. Comskip monitor and Dirmon2 are much much better for a number of reasons.

Aloha,
Mike

oops. I stand corrected - again

So why not remove that code from there - or better yet, add in more-recent CSM code?

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by Brent

So why not remove that code from there - or better yet, add in more-recent CSM code?

I've never used CSM (I use Dirmon2 + SA), so I don't know its capabilities. The main reason not to build it into SageMC is that it should not be tied to running an instance of the UI. Also, I doubt configuration through a 10 foot interface would be very practical.

Plus, at least in my case, I set up Dirmon2 most recently when I built my current server back in January. I haven't touched it since. And I think that the next version of SA is supposed to have directory monitoring built it.

Maybe we'll remove the old code someday, but it's a very low priority.

Aloha,
Mike

[reggie14]

Here are my thoughts on some of the things that Brent brought up.

User Interface:
This is something that comes up a lot. A lot of people have a problem with the UI and bring that up on the forums, but usually people have a hard time identifying specific ways to improve it. Usually people just say the UI looks outdated, the menus are cluttered and/or it takes too many clicks to perform regular tasks. I tend to agree with those points, but I don’t really know how to fix them. I think there are some dire areas- like I think the OSD desperately needs updating to something more like SageMC’s-, but beyond that I have a hard time coming up with specifics.
I’m not entirely convinced SageMC is that much better. I do use it, and I think it looks better for the most part, but it’s a little “buggy”. Things don’t quite fit on the screen, and there’s various bugs in the music library that have been identified but never fixed (like displaying the previous song title instead of the current one). It’s getting better- the new release did fix quite a few bugs, but it’s still not as well polished as the stock interface. I do think the stock interface has a better UI for music though.

Remote Administration and Streaming:
While I agree we don’t want to let feature-creep get out of control, I actually think Sage should include a web server. I think that’s just as much in scope as the Placeshifter is. It’s basically the same thing, just with a more convenient interface. I certainly don’t mean to indicate I have a problem with Nielm’s webserver. He’s done a great job, and the plugin is very easy to install now. But, I think it ought to be a core feature. My one complaint is that I wish there was a better alternative to VLC streaming. The current implementation’s inability to fast forward or skip ahead greatly reduces it usefulness.
Some sort of DVD streaming would be really nice. If not full menu support, at least being able to play back a DVD’s main title. I don’t actually don’t think it would get Sage into any trouble. Sage’s products already include functionality that the MPAA wouldn’t be thrilled with. This would be another, but I don’t see why it would be a game-changer. I think Sage is just too small for them to care.


Music Playback:
I have to strenuously disagree with stanger on this one. I think music playback is a core feature of HTPCs. While I know it’s not exactly energy efficient, I prefer having a big screen and a nice interface when queuing up music. A lot of times I end up listening to music when I’m cooking, or doing something else for <30 minutes, and I’ll queue up some songs rather than going to a playlist. I also kind of like having the album art up when I’m browsing through the music library and playing back songs. Sometimes I’ll shut off the TV after I queue things up (and play things using my receiver), but usually the TV stays on. Obviously I don’t think that’s a very good solution if you have a projector, but I think that’s the extreme case here. I think it works great for TVs, except for the whole wasting energy thing if you’re into that sort of thing. ;-)

CD/DVD Ripping and Burning:
For a lot of reasons I don’t see this as being practical, but I’d love to have this functionality. I store all my music and ripped DVDs on my HTPC anyway, why would I want to rip them to a different computer, then copy them over? The same thing applies to burning videos and music. I think it just comes down to the issues of features and usability. It might be difficult to create a good interface for this. It seems like music ripping would be fine, unless for some reason it doesn’t automatically identify the CD correctly. It doesn’t seem like DVD ripping would be too hard- probably all you need to do is give the option to rip the full disc or just the main title. I release DVD ripping is probably out of the question due to the legal issues involved, but CD ripping is much less controversial. And, there’s already a plugin that shows you can create a perfectly usable system for burning DVDs in Sage.

I do think this is one of those things that would be nice, but I don’t think it’s something Sage should be worry about. It would take up valuable development time, and increase the cost due to licensing fees. Still, in a perfect world…

Plus, I have one specific comment to something stanger brought up:

Originally Posted by stanger89

I think, if possible, it would be very beneficial to sort out the (I don't know of a politially correct way to say this) "realistic/serious" feature requests from the "blue sky/wishlist" features. I mean there's a lot of good stuff in there (integrated plugin download/selection, UI update, overall new user experience, etc...), but at the same time it's kind of burried amongst a bunch of stuff that's probably never going to happen (Blu-ray, PS3/360 client, wiz.bin replacement, etc)

I'm surprised by your categorization. I think the integrated plugin store would be cool, but it seems way outside the range of possibilities. On the other hand, replacing the wiz.bin with a database seems perfectly plausible.

[briands]

Originally Posted by Brent

Please do. It's entirely possible I"m missing something as the thread is a long read....

Found it - attached.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I store all my music and ripped DVDs on my HTPC anyway, why would I want to rip them to a different computer, then copy them over?

The copy step isn't necessary; you can rip from any machine directly to the network share where you want them, without saving them locally first. The bottleneck is the optical drive, not the LAN, so (all else being equal) the drive directly attached to the server doesn't offer any speed advantage over a drive elsewhere on the LAN. And if your server happens to be in a closet, headless, it has a distinct disadvantage convenience-wise.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

And if your server happens to be in a closet, headless, it has a distinct disadvantage convenience-wise.

That's when we take advantage of the HD100's USB ports with an external optical drive! I know, I know, it's not going to happen.

I'm stuck in an apartment. Not only does that mean that I can't stick my server in a closet somewhere, it means I can't even run ethernet wire around. So, I try to keep any sort of transfers between my desktop and my server to a minimum, as it completely ties up my wireless network.

You might wonder why I couldn't just move my server into the room with my desktop. Well, there's several reasons. partly because its sort of nice to have a computer hooked up to my TV so I can stream Netflix, partly because I'm worried about wireless-N being reliable enough to feed the HD100. But, mainly its because I only have a single cable jack in the apartment, and oddly enough its in the dining area. A coaxial cable runs underneath the carpet over to the living room area, where I split it off multiple ways. Wireless N bridges feed my desktop in my office, and another extender in my bedroom. I suppose I'm lucky to be using Sage, otherwise I wouldn't have had any way of getting TV into the bedroom.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I'm surprised by your categorization. I think the integrated plugin store would be cool, but it seems way outside the range of possibilities.

The Stock STV can already download updates on it's own, without needing to drop out of the interface. It would seem to be not a large step to sort of merge that capability with the "Downloads" section such that "approved" customizations could be browsed and downloaded from the UI.

It's not terribly likely to happen soon, but it's definitely possible, and would make things much nicer for users.

On the other hand, replacing the wiz.bin with a database seems perfectly plausible.

The wiz.bin has been around since V1 and so have the complaints. Sage has shown no interest in changing it.

[49studebaker]

Why not create a wiki in this thread or a wiki webpage where all the users here can list their suggestions in a single place? Then make it so that users have the ability to vote/rank the suggestions they would like to see implemented. Then implement the top ideas.

[bastafidli]

To 3dOptics: That would be too obvious and easy :-)

[hellsingfan]

Hi,

I want ability to hide/change (like say "parental lock") Adult Only program names on EPG.

So in the EPG (guide) it would say "Parental Lock" instead of the actual program name which would probably include some vulgar terms.

This will give SageTV an Edge ABOVE competition when it comes to Parental Controls!

Please please, include this!

[tmiranda]

I'd like to add the ability to tune QAM channels that are music-only. My HDHR sees all of the digital music channels offered by by cable provider but Sage can't tune them.

[kasperke]

Lets make a list of ..lets say...20 items you want to change and let everybody vote 3 times in that list.

i think it's no priority to spent much time incorperate a video format that only 0.000001 % of people use.

the first thing is redesign the media part of sage tv. The music part is not from this time.

so who can make such a list? just look at all the demands of everybody..take the 20 most demanded, and make a poll. Only 3 votes each..and then we have a much better idea

[Brent]

Let's not forget - we won't be making the decision of what happens and what doesn't happen here. SageTV will be doing that. It's still good to tell them what the crowd wants but don't think just because we have a top 25 list or something SageTV will make sure that happens. They are really good about delivering what their customers want, but there are limits.

[doc]

I'd love an integrated web interface.

I'd be lost without the current one, but its not been touched for a year and some bits are starting to get out of sync with the main product.

I'm particularly interested in managing favourites. I can add them when I'm away from home but have to remember to go into Sage and then amend them later.

I use Placeshifter whenever I can for this but its not always possible.

[wayner]

You can also use a Remote Desktop connection to change any of the Sage settings as if you were right in front of your PC. If your OS doesn't allow Remote Desktop then try logmein.com - I use it with Sage and it works fine as long as you don't expect to be watching video files over your remote connection.

[sainswor99]

K,

I know I'm WAAAYYY late on commenting on this whole music in an HTPC thing, but I just read some of these quotes and had some thoughts.

Originally Posted by stanger89

Contrast that with a Squeezebox where I can just grab the remote and queue up a dynamic/sql playlist and go. I think you'll see what the winner is there.

Heck with the Squeezebox duet, you can control your music from anywhere within range of your wifi.

And I guess that's really the other issue, I don't really switch back and forth between music and, "not music". I usually do one or the other, so the fact that they're not "integrated" is no issue to me. I prefer using the best interface available for each.

Originally Posted by reggie14

Music Playback:
I have to strenuously disagree with stanger on this one. I think music playback is a core feature of HTPCs. While I know it’s not exactly energy efficient, I prefer having a big screen and a nice interface when queuing up music. A lot of times I end up listening to music when I’m cooking, or doing something else for <30 minutes, and I’ll queue up some songs rather than going to a playlist. I also kind of like having the album art up when I’m browsing through the music library and playing back songs. Sometimes I’ll shut off the TV after I queue things up (and play things using my receiver), but usually the TV stays on. Obviously I don’t think that’s a very good solution if you have a projector, but I think that’s the extreme case here. I think it works great for TVs, except for the whole wasting energy thing if you’re into that sort of thing. ;-)

To me, I think both options for interacting with your music should be available; it's nice in a party situation to have a photo slideshow with music playing behind it, but I don't necessarily want to fire up the TV everytime I want to play music. I would rather have Sage consume a SlimServer (SqueezeCenter) feed and dump their own proprietary Music Management system. SageTV (and all of its clients, extenders, etc) would then become essentially extenders for SlimServer. You want a playlist on your TV? Relatively easy to do. You want that same playlist on your Squeezebox? Presto.

[yacht_boy]

I think Wayner's on the right track with the music playback. I generally play my music with XMPlay and organize it with MediaMonkey, but I can't control either of those with a remote (at least not easily). I'd just as soon have Sage dump its Music Management system and partner with either one of those excellent products to somehow control them from within Sage.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by yacht_boy

I generally play my music with XMPlay and organize it with MediaMonkey, but I can't control either of those with a remote (at least not easily). I'd just as soon have Sage dump its Music Management system and partner with either one of those excellent products to somehow control them from within Sage.

That seems strange to me. Neither one of those programs have an interface that is even a little remote friendly. Music library functionality is entirely a user interface issue. I can see why some people would prefer the Squeezebox approach, but I just don't see the value in Sage teaming up with MediaMonkey.

What don't you like about Sage's music library? I think the user interface is pretty good actually. But, I don't think it looks very good, nor am I a fan of the playlist UI. I think there ought to be some better what to present playlists to users. It also seems weird to me that there isn't a good way to get to a view of the current playlist queue (other than finding the Now Playing playlist). Some sort of dynamic playlist generator, possibly including song ratings, might be nice too.

[briands]

Originally Posted by reggie14

That seems strange to me. Neither one of those programs have an interface that is even a little remote friendly. Music library functionality is entirely a user interface issue. I can see why some people would prefer the Squeezebox approach, but I just don't see the value in Sage teaming up with MediaMonkey.

What don't you like about Sage's music library? I think the user interface is pretty good actually. But, I don't think it looks very good, nor am I a fan of the playlist UI. I think there ought to be some better what to present playlists to users. It also seems weird to me that there isn't a good way to get to a view of the current playlist queue (other than finding the Now Playing playlist). Some sort of dynamic playlist generator, possibly including song ratings, might be nice too.

I think the music section should be thought of as 2 different things... playback and organization. I recall the older J River had a "very busy" interface for organizing, etc but had a very clean 10' playback interface that really was only good (in my opinion) for choosing playlists for playback.

If you are going to do music, you have to do it all the way otherwise you force the user to manage 2 applications. That may be OK for the geeks in here, but not for their poor suffering family members.

I would like to be able to:

Organize screens-
Rip
Manage Playlist (including dynamic) preferably in a STANDARD format that can be shared with portable devices
Sync to portables (or at least FLAG for syncing by some third party app)
Manage Ratings (this data should be part of the file)
Internet radio favorites manager

Playback screen-
Playlist picker
Search for title, artist, etc
filtered playback
Apply ranking during playback
Flag for sync during playback
Oh and of course internet radio favorites

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by briands

If you are going to do music, you have to do it all the way otherwise you force the user to manage 2 applications. That may be OK for the geeks in here, but not for their poor suffering family members.

Well, I think in practice managing/organizing music is going to occur outside of Sage, by some definition of managing. Some sort of integrated ripping functionality might be nice, although I don't expect we'll see it. There would be some value, particularly to non-technies, to being able to rip your CDs into Sage and just having everything work. At the same time, you're likely to have pretty limited functionality in order to make the interface pretty friendly. This probably doesn't appeal to the typical Sage user. Syncing to portables seems outside the scope of Sage. I agree it would be nice in some ways (for instance, easily sending a recording to a video iPod), but then I think we're approaching major feature creep.

Other than that, I think everything else is really an issue of the playback interface. You choose music by placing things in a queue. You create playlists by taking the additional step of saving the queue. It seems like the easiest way to handle ratings in on playback screens. I find the current playback functionality reasonable usable, although its not without its problems. There are some features, like dynamic playlists and song ratings, that just don't exist. Some things, like playlist handling, is just far too complicated or at least unintuitive.