h.264 oddities

[Taddeusz]

What version of SageTV are you running? What firmware on your extender?

[valnar]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I tried running a DVD through AutoMKV and I have exactly the same results. It starts playing back on the extender, then the extender completely freezes up. It doesn't happen with all mkv files. I snooped around Sage's ftp site and downloaded an mkv file. That one plays fine.

I just used the default settings in AutoMKV. I don't think its a codec issue. Its happened with every mkv file I've created- including ones made from working mp4 files. Is there anything I should try before I submit something to Sage support?

The extender doesn't support any ol' MKV file. There are certain parameters that must be used for DXVA acceleration, PS3, XBOX, etc. It's likely there are parameters incompatible with the HD Extender too. If I could buy one, I'd tell you what those are.

Try this constant-quality XML profile I made and let me know how it works. Make sure you also choose "--engage keep_bitstream_ar_info" on the Advanced Settings tab.

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<VideoProfile xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Name>_CQ_Robert_Q2_eq(crf)</Name>
  <Settings xsi:type="x264Settings">
    <EncodingMode>9</EncodingMode>
    <BitrateQuantizer>20</BitrateQuantizer>
    <KeyframeInterval>250</KeyframeInterval>
    <NbBframes>3</NbBframes>
    <MinQuantizer>10</MinQuantizer>
    <MaxQuantizer>51</MaxQuantizer>
    <Turbo>false</Turbo>
    <V4MV>false</V4MV>
    <QPel>false</QPel>
    <Trellis>1</Trellis>
    <CreditsQuantizer>40</CreditsQuantizer>
    <Logfile>.stats</Logfile>
    <CustomEncoderOptions />
    <FourCC>1</FourCC>
    <Zones />
    <MaxNumberOfPasses>3</MaxNumberOfPasses>
    <NbThreads>1</NbThreads>
    <NoDCTDecimate>false</NoDCTDecimate>
    <PSNRCalculation>false</PSNRCalculation>
    <noFastPSkip>false</noFastPSkip>
    <NoiseReduction>0</NoiseReduction>
    <MixedRefs>true</MixedRefs>
    <X264Trellis>1</X264Trellis>
    <NbRefFrames>3</NbRefFrames>
    <AlphaDeblock>-2</AlphaDeblock>
    <BetaDeblock>-1</BetaDeblock>
    <SubPelRefinement>6</SubPelRefinement>
    <MaxQuantDelta>4</MaxQuantDelta>
    <TempQuantBlur>0</TempQuantBlur>
    <BframePredictionMode>3</BframePredictionMode>
    <VBVBufferSize>-1</VBVBufferSize>
    <VBVMaxBitrate>14000</VBVMaxBitrate>
    <METype>2</METype>
    <MERange>16</MERange>
    <MinGOPSize>25</MinGOPSize>
    <Profile>2</Profile>
    <Level>3.1</Level>
    <IPFactor>1.4</IPFactor>
    <PBFactor>1.3</PBFactor>
    <ChromaQPOffset>0</ChromaQPOffset>
    <VBVInitialBuffer>0.9</VBVInitialBuffer>
    <BitrateVariance>1.0</BitrateVariance>
    <QuantCompression>0.6</QuantCompression>
    <TempComplexityBlur>20</TempComplexityBlur>
    <TempQuanBlurCC>0.5</TempQuanBlurCC>
    <SCDSensitivity>40</SCDSensitivity>
    <BframeBias>0</BframeBias>
    <Deblock>true</Deblock>
    <Cabac>true</Cabac>
    <WeightedBPrediction>true</WeightedBPrediction>
    <AdaptiveBFrames>true</AdaptiveBFrames>
    <BFramePyramid>false</BFramePyramid>
    <BRDO>true</BRDO>
    <biME>true</biME>
    <ChromaME>true</ChromaME>
    <P8x8mv>true</P8x8mv>
    <B8x8mv>true</B8x8mv>
    <I4x4mv>true</I4x4mv>
    <I8x8mv>true</I8x8mv>
    <P4x4mv>false</P4x4mv>
    <AdaptiveDCT>true</AdaptiveDCT>
    <Width>false</Width>
    <Sar>false</Sar>
    <aq-strength>false</aq-strength>
    <aq-sensitivity>false</aq-sensitivity>
    <deadzone-inter>false</deadzone-inter>
    <deadzone-intra>false</deadzone-intra>
    <fpel-cmp>false</fpel-cmp>
    <me-prepass>false</me-prepass>
    <SSIMCalculation>true</SSIMCalculation>
    <Interlaced>false</Interlaced>
    <Lossless>false</Lossless>
    <QuantizerMatrix />
    <QuantizerMatrixType>0</QuantizerMatrixType>
  </Settings>
</VideoProfile>

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

What version of SageTV are you running? What firmware on your extender?

I'm running Sage v6.3.8 on the server and 20080204-0 firmware on the extender. I should point out that the files play back fine on my PC clients, just not on the extender.


Thanks, valnar, I'll give that a try.

[Taddeusz]

Here's the profile I use in AutoMKV. There are a few differences I noticed. This one is more advanced than the one Valnar uses. It uses Pyramidal B-frames and more reference frames. And is also level 4.1. Anyway, here it is:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<VideoProfile xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Name>CE-Mainprofile</Name>
  <Settings xsi:type="x264Settings">
    <EncodingMode>4</EncodingMode>
    <BitrateQuantizer>1000</BitrateQuantizer>
    <KeyframeInterval>250</KeyframeInterval>
    <NbBframes>3</NbBframes>
    <MinQuantizer>10</MinQuantizer>
    <MaxQuantizer>51</MaxQuantizer>
    <Turbo>true</Turbo>
    <V4MV>false</V4MV>
    <QPel>false</QPel>
    <Trellis>false</Trellis>
    <CreditsQuantizer>40</CreditsQuantizer>
    <Logfile>.stats</Logfile>
    <CustomEncoderOptions />
    <FourCC>1</FourCC>
    <Zones />
    <MaxNumberOfPasses>3</MaxNumberOfPasses>
    <NbThreads>1</NbThreads>
    <NoDCTDecimate>false</NoDCTDecimate>
    <PSNRCalculation>false</PSNRCalculation>
    <noFastPSkip>false</noFastPSkip>
    <NoiseReduction>0</NoiseReduction>
    <MixedRefs>true</MixedRefs>
    <X264Trellis>1</X264Trellis>
    <NbRefFrames>6</NbRefFrames>
    <AlphaDeblock>0</AlphaDeblock>
    <BetaDeblock>0</BetaDeblock>
    <SubPelRefinement>5</SubPelRefinement>
    <MaxQuantDelta>4</MaxQuantDelta>
    <TempQuantBlur>0</TempQuantBlur>
    <BframePredictionMode>3</BframePredictionMode>
    <VBVBufferSize>-1</VBVBufferSize>
    <VBVMaxBitrate>25000</VBVMaxBitrate>
    <METype>1</METype>
    <MERange>16</MERange>
    <MinGOPSize>25</MinGOPSize>
    <Profile>1</Profile>
    <Level>4.1</Level>
    <IPFactor>1.4</IPFactor>
    <PBFactor>1.3</PBFactor>
    <ChromaQPOffset>0</ChromaQPOffset>
    <VBVInitialBuffer>0.9</VBVInitialBuffer>
    <BitrateVariance>1.0</BitrateVariance>
    <QuantCompression>0.6</QuantCompression>
    <TempComplexityBlur>20</TempComplexityBlur>
    <TempQuanBlurCC>0.5</TempQuanBlurCC>
    <SCDSensitivity>40</SCDSensitivity>
    <BframeBias>0</BframeBias>
    <Deblock>true</Deblock>
    <Cabac>true</Cabac>
    <WeightedBPrediction>true</WeightedBPrediction>
    <AdaptiveBFrames>true</AdaptiveBFrames>
    <BFramePyramid>true</BFramePyramid>
    <BRDO>true</BRDO>
    <biME>true</biME>
    <ChromaME>true</ChromaME>
    <P8x8mv>true</P8x8mv>
    <B8x8mv>true</B8x8mv>
    <I4x4mv>true</I4x4mv>
    <I8x8mv>false</I8x8mv>
    <P4x4mv>true</P4x4mv>
    <AdaptiveDCT>false</AdaptiveDCT>
    <SSIMCalculation>false</SSIMCalculation>
    <Interlaced>false</Interlaced>
    <Lossless>false</Lossless>
    <Width>false</Width>
    <Sar>false</Sar>
     <aq-strength>false</aq-strength>
  <aq-sensitivity>false</aq-sensitivity>
    <deadzone-inter>false</deadzone-inter>
    <deadzone-intra>false</deadzone-intra>
    <fpel-cmp>false</fpel-cmp>
    <me-prepass>false</me-prepass>
    <QuantizerMatrix />
    <QuantizerMatrixType>0</QuantizerMatrixType>
  </Settings>
</VideoProfile>

[valnar]

FWIW, The main difference is by using less reference frames and no b-pyramids, you increase compatibility with other devices besides the Sage Extender. DVD also doesn't need more than level 3.1, but 4.1 doesn't hurt anything.

Robert

[Taddeusz]

Well, the videos work just fine on my HD Extender.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by valnar

The extender doesn't support any ol' MKV file. There are certain parameters that must be used for DXVA acceleration, PS3, XBOX, etc. It's likely there are parameters incompatible with the HD Extender too. If I could buy one, I'd tell you what those are.

Try this constant-quality XML profile I made and let me know how it works. Make sure you also choose "--engage keep_bitstream_ar_info" on the Advanced Settings tab.

I tried your profile, assuming I didn't do anything wrong. I basically copied it into AutoMKV, clicked the box next to "use this profile", and made sure keep_bitstream_ar_info was checked in the other tab.

I had exactly the same results as before. It started to play, then the extender froze. I've noticed that it looks like my hard drive freaks out on the server when this happens, but the server isn't transmitting much over the network.

I'll try Taddeusz's profile next, but I'm not very hopeful.

By the way, is there a way to only encode a single chapter of a DVD title? It takes a long time to encode a full title. I'm doing with with a TV show DVD, so its not quite as long as a movie, but it still takes 1-2 hours. If not I'll hunt down a DVD with some short extras on it.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Here's the profile I use in AutoMKV. There are a few differences I noticed. This one is more advanced than the one Valnar uses. It uses Pyramidal B-frames and more reference frames. And is also level 4.1. Anyway, here it is:

The extender freezes when I use this profile too. What firmware and server version are you running? What version of AutoMKV are you using?

Is there any way I could get a file that you encoded using AutoMKV? I don't have a clue what I'm doing, so I could certainly be doing something wrong when I encode these files.

[Taddeusz]

I'm running 6.3.9 with the latest firmware. Since that profile works for me it almost sounds like you're having some kind of server problem. I'm using the latest version of AutoMKV, 0.95c.

What codec are you using on the audio? I am just using the original AC3 or DTS audio. I'm not converting it to AAC or anything else. Particularly because the HD Extender won't convert 5.1 channel AAC to something a receiver will play in surround. Besides there's not much difference in bitrate between the two.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I'm running 6.3.9 with the latest firmware. Since that profile works for me it almost sounds like you're having some kind of server problem. I'm using the latest version of AutoMKV, 0.95c.

When you said you were running the latest firmware version, were you including the beta firmwares? I have the current stable version.

I just tried updating my server to 6.3.9. I still have problems playing back the mkv files. I haven't finished downloading your file, but the trailer you tried still doesn't work for me. My server now is running 6.3.9 with Java 1.6.0_04 on Windows XP SP2. I'm using UNC paths to import my video files, although they are stored on the Sage server.

Can you give me more details about your server/extender set up? I want to try to duplicate your set up as much as possible.

[Taddeusz]

When I said the latest firmware I meant the latest stable one. I haven't had the need to even consider a beta firmware.

There's nothing very special about my server. It's a basic dual core system. AMD X2 4200, 2GB RAM, etc. My video import is located on a different machine from my server though. That really shouldn't matter. I'm probably eventually going to get a NAS for it but for now it's in a different computer.

Not everything is completely perfect. I actually had my extender lock up in the middle of a movie last night for no apparent reason. Kind of odd.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

There's nothing very special about my server. It's a basic dual core system. AMD X2 4200, 2GB RAM, etc. My video import is located on a different machine from my server though. That really shouldn't matter. I'm probably eventually going to get a NAS for it but for now it's in a different computer.

Hmmm. Well, it seems like it must be a software issue, either on the extender or the server. But, it also seems like we're running nearly exactly the same software. It looks like I'll have to turn on all the logging stuff and submit a support request. I think George is getting sick of hearing from me!

[Taddeusz]

Well, the more they hear from us the better the software gets. Only we can help them track down those really weird elusive problems.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

When I said the latest firmware I meant the latest stable one. I haven't had the need to even consider a beta firmware.

Just to clarify, in case it is needed & since I didn't see the actual version number listed above: the latest release firmware version is 20080204 0. There is currently no beta version newer than that.

- Andy

[reggie14]

As some of you probably read in other threads, I've had problems with the firmware versions from 2008. I found a workaround for the previous problem I was experiencing (using UNC paths), so I recently updated to the current firmware. But, since I've been having problems with mkv playback, I thought I'd try going back to 20071226 firmware. Sure enough, mkv files play back fine.

For some reason, the newer firmwares hate my HD extender.

Now that they have new hd extenders in, do you think I should RMA the unit?

[reggie14]

My understanding is that when UNC paths are used, the server basically just tells the client/extender where to look for the file. Is that accurate?

With that in mind, I created an import directory on a different machine and added it to Sage using UNC paths. MKV files still wouldn't play from that directory. I think that shows that the problem I'm having isn't due to any hardware or software problems on the Sage server. The fact that going back to the older firmware solves the MKV playback issue probably suggests that too.

The issue I'm having with MKV playback seems to be related to the problems I was having with mpeg4/divx/xvid playback (from before I used UNC paths). I think I've sort of stumped Sage with these problems. They've been suggesting possible problems with the computer hardware (in particular, memory), or general network problems (a defective router/switch). I don't buy that, mainly based on the fact that the old firmware works fine (and supported by the UNC path workaround). I must admit, I'm getting really frustrated with the extender. Its nice to having solid HD mpeg2 playback, but I feel like I've been messing with and debugging this extender more than my PC clients. I got the extender so I wouldn't have to do that anymore.

[reggie14]

I heard back from Sage support, with an email again indicating they don't have a clue what's going wrong with my setup. They want me to directly connect the extender to the server, without going through a router. They didn't respond to my question about whether that requires a crossover able, or if the extender will detect that its directly connected and basically act appropriately. Does anyone know?

I assume it requires a crossover cable. To be honest, I really don't feel like sinking $10 into something that is highly unlikely to work- particularly when I have no use for the $10 item except to do some debugging for Sage. I've told them mkv playback works with the old firmware (from 2007), just not with the new firmware. Why would a network problem appear only when I use the new firmware?

I've sort of determined that I just want to return the extender and get my money back. This is getting ridiculous. I'm pretty upset at Sage right now for ignoring my questions about RMAing the unit. Does anyone know what the return policy is for these things?

Update: Looking at the store website, return for refunds seem to be limited to 30 days after purchase. That's certainly not unheard of. Of course, it would have been nice for Sage support to tell me that when I originally brought up returning the unit, rather than ignoring the question (admittedly, I asked about RMAing it, not returning it). There doesn't seem to be any clear policies on RMAing hardware, other than that you need to receive permission.

[reggie14]

So, I didn't feel like wasting $10 on a crossover cable, but Microcenter had a Dlink 5-port gigabit switch for $25AR. I got it, and, as expected, MKV playback still doesn't work with the new firmware. I don't think its a network problem, except perhaps on the extender unit itself. For good measure, I tried a different network port on my server (my motherboard has 2), which also didn't help.

[tmiranda]

Maybe a little OT, but why use Handbrake, AutoMKV, or other H.264 converters vs. the Sage built in H.264 (AppleTV) converter?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Maybe a little OT, but why use Handbrake, AutoMKV, or other H.264 converters vs. the Sage built in H.264 (AppleTV) converter?

I'm ripping DVDs. At least, I was going to before I found out my extender wouldn't play back MKV files.