AMD 780G -- The Birth of a New HTPC?

[emok]

Don't know if anyone else has been following this recently, but this looks like it's just about time for me to retire my aging Socket 939 X2 3800.

The new AMD 780G boards are now available (as seen on newegg) and look to be right up the HTPC alley. Onboard UVD and the fact that games may be "playable" (though I don't really care about this for my HTPC) looks to be a winner. In addition, paired with the new energy efficient X2 4850e, this thing sips power at idle (80Watts as configured here if you consider that sipping).

I'm close to taking the plunge except that my current setup has been running fine and I'm not really in a hurry.

Anyone have one of these going yet?

[ryanlantzy]

Originally Posted by emok

The new AMD 780G boards are now available (as seen on newegg) and look to be right up the HTPC alley.

Anyone have one of these going yet?

I do. I opted for the Phenom 9500 so that I'd gain the advantage of HyperTransport 3.0. AMD recommends this if you will be using the onboard graphics for HD video due to the increased bandwidth.

The machine has NO problems playing back HD content, but my experiences with SageTV and this combo have been flaky over the last few days. I believe I have in narrowed down to a driver problem with the Hauppauge HVR-1800 I have though. I have another thread working that issue.

With 4GB of ram installed, Windows Vista Ultimate is fairly snappy with the Aero UI and all. No issues at all installing hardware or software so far. Once I get Sage working, this system should be pretty sweet.

AMD has left the option for motherboard manufactures to put on board dedicated video memory with this 780g. It would have been nice to see Giga-byte do that with this board I have. But, alas, they haven't and I'm using shared memory.

With 4GB installed, and 256MB shared for video, I get 3GB available in Windows.

[Jesse]

Hi,

I too am looking very hard at this board. Needing a phenom to get the most out of post processing kind of dulls my enthusiasm. For that kind of money I could get a 5000 be and a discrete vid card.

Please keep us posted as to your results.

Thanks.

Jesse

[stanger89]

I can't believe they still haven't done HDMI audio right on this thing, there's no excuse. Intel's got real HDMI audio working on the G35, and nVidia will on the GeForce 8200.

[jiggles]

Originally Posted by emok

this thing sips power at idle (80Watts as configured here if you consider that sipping).

Good lord no, that's a disastrous idle power consumption (and not what that article says either). 80W is pretty repellent for full load TBH.

SPCR has the idle at around 35W, and they're not using a very efficient PSU. With a PicoPSU it should get down to ~30W at idle I reckon (with properly configured C&Q).

HD playback is acceptable even with a 1.5GHz dual-core processor, pulling ~60W under load/HD playback, which opens up some interesting possibilities with eg. the X2 3600+, etc.

The Gigabyte board seems to have a decent Realtek sound chip on it too which as far as I can tell will do real-time DDL encoding of DirectSound streams.

[Chilli]

The folks over at tomshardware managed to play Blu Ray movies with a 1.8GHz Sempron 3200+ using the 780G. When prices for Blu Ray drives fall (currently $130 at newegg), we'll be able to build a media extender w/Blu Ray for much less than a full priced standalone Blu Ray player ($399). Pretty cool.

[stanger89]

Don't forget that $100 crappy software

FWIW you can already build a PC BD player for less than a comporable (feature wise at least) BD player, there isn't a BD player out there that decodes all the audio formats, does Bonus View and BD-Live, but you can do all that with a PC for somewhere around $500-600.

[GTwannabe]

Unfortunately, the 780G doesn't handle HDMI audio properly. It relies on the same tacked-on AC97 codec (16-bit, 48khz) that's used in the Radeon HD cards. That means there's still no HD audio over HDMI.

[Chilli]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Don't forget that $100 crappy software

FWIW you can already build a PC BD player for less than a comporable (feature wise at least) BD player, there isn't a BD player out there that decodes all the audio formats, does Bonus View and BD-Live, but you can do all that with a PC for somewhere around $500-600.

Actually, $130 includes the OEM version of PowerDVD (stereo audio only), but I ain't fussy about it.

[emok]

Originally Posted by GTwannabe

Unfortunately, the 780G doesn't handle HDMI audio properly. It relies on the same tacked-on AC97 codec (16-bit, 48khz) that's used in the Radeon HD cards. That means there's still no HD audio over HDMI.

I haven't really kept up with audio issues. What exactly does this mean with respect to an HTPC? Does it mean that if you try to play an audio source that's coded at a higher bitrate, it won't be able to output it over HDMI?

[stanger89]

It means if you play an HD DVD or BD, that odds are the the audio will be "handicapped" to DD, DTS, or Stereo, you won't get the full benefit of the newer codecs at their higher bitrates.

It also means to handle multichannel audio that's not DD or DTS, the audio will have to be folded to stereo or compressed to DD or DTS. Let's look at it a different way (assuming you have an HDMI capable SSP):

With S/PDIF or the current S/PDIF over HDMI solutions the only way to get discrete, multichannel, digital audio to the SSP is via a compressed Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream. Doesn't matter where it's from, Quicktime trailer (MP4), transcoded movies, HD DVD, Blu-ray or games. Any multichannel source that's not already DD or DTS needs to be converted to DD or DTS (this is what DD Live and DTS Connect are for), this degrades the sound as it's a lossy compression step.

Now if someone were to finally implement proper HDMI audio, meaning support for up to 8ch 24bit/96kHz audio, any audio source on the PC (ie all the ones I mentioned above) could be transmitted digitally, losslessly to the SSP.

[thymceelie]

Originally Posted by ryanlantzy

I do. I opted for the Phenom 9500 so that I'd gain the advantage of HyperTransport 3.0. AMD recommends this if you will be using the onboard graphics for HD video due to the increased bandwidth.

The machine has NO problems playing back HD content, but my experiences with SageTV and this combo have been flaky over the last few days. I believe I have in narrowed down to a driver problem with the Hauppauge HVR-1800 I have though. I have another thread working that issue.

With 4GB of ram installed, Windows Vista Ultimate is fairly snappy with the Aero UI and all. No issues at all installing hardware or software so far. Once I get Sage working, this system should be pretty sweet.

AMD has left the option for motherboard manufactures to put on board dedicated video memory with this 780g. It would have been nice to see Giga-byte do that with this board I have. But, alas, they haven't and I'm using shared memory.

With 4GB installed, and 256MB shared for video, I get 3GB available in Windows.

ryanlantzy - I've got a very similar setup (HVR 1600 as opposed to HVR1800). I've had several BSOD during playback, infinite loop problems and whatnot, but recordings seem to be alright, although Sage shuts down on my regularly. Any improvements?

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Now if someone were to finally implement proper HDMI audio, meaning support for up to 8ch 24bit/96kHz audio, any audio source on the PC (ie all the ones I mentioned above) could be transmitted digitally, losslessly to the SSP.

You are saying that there are currently 0 solutions that do this via HDMI for the PC either from a stand alone card or from an onboard card? Or just nothing for AMD, and integrated?

Shouldn't I be able to upgrade my graphics card at some point and get this?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

You are saying that there are currently 0 solutions that do this via HDMI for the PC either from a stand alone card or from an onboard card? Or just nothing for AMD, and integrated?

The Intel G35 does real HDMI audio, and the nVidia 8200/8300 will when they come out, but nobody has made a graphics card yet that will. nVidia is one thing, they haven't attempted to touch HDMI audio at all, beyond passing through HDMI from an external S/PDIF device. AMD on the other hand, I can't figure them out, they've designed two chipsets (the 2000 and the 3000) with built-in audio devices, yet apparently chose to omit all but S/PDIF-level audio support, that I just can't figure out, how the 3000 made it off the drawing board without support for 8ch PCM, I just can't figure out.

Shouldn't I be able to upgrade my graphics card at some point and get this?

One would think so, frankly (before release) I fully expected the 2000 and especially the 3000 to have real HDMI audio, and I'm rather surprised the GeForce 9000 series doesn't have it as well.

If HDMI audio is really important at this point, and you aren't in a real hurry, I'd just wait for the GeForce 8200/8300 motherboards to appear. I think, especially for media/HTPC duties, the latest generation of chipsets (the 780G and assumingly the 8x00) with their integrated UVD/PureVideo HD, are finally not only viable, but in many ways desirable and perhaps even optimal solutions.

I posted in the other thread, I got a 780G board (decided I'm not needing HDMI audio for a while so no point waiting for the 8x00), haven't tried it with Sage but it works perfect with Blu-ray so far, and as far as I'm concerned that about a much of a torture test as there is, I can't see a compelling reason to opt for an external card vs onboard, not for media playback at least.

[JmpnJimBob]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I posted in the other thread, I got a 780G board (decided I'm not needing HDMI audio for a while so no point waiting for the 8x00), haven't tried it with Sage but it works perfect with Blu-ray so far

What processor are you using with your 780G motherboard? I've been contemplating a new HTPC build and have been thinking about using an AMD 780G board with possibly the new 4850e 45 watt processor or an Intel G35 motherboard (ASUS P5E-VM HDMI) with an E4600 65watt processor.

[thymceelie]

Originally Posted by JmpnJimBob

What processor are you using with your 780G motherboard? I've been contemplating a new HTPC build and have been thinking about using an AMD 780G board with possibly the new 4850e 45 watt processor or an Intel G35 motherboard (ASUS P5E-VM HDMI) with an E4600 65watt processor.

I got the 780G with only an AM2 4200+ and Sage runs snappy smooth and HD playback (QAM and HD DVD rips) is also great. Regular HD TV is somewhere around 10% CPU and HD DVD rips are around 30%. It's a great little mobo.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by JmpnJimBob

What processor are you using with your 780G motherboard? I've been contemplating a new HTPC build and have been thinking about using an AMD 780G board with possibly the new 4850e 45 watt processor or an Intel G35 motherboard (ASUS P5E-VM HDMI) with an E4600 65watt processor.

A BE-2400, 2.3GHz 45W dual-core. Still need to hook it up to the Kill-a-Watt. If you're still contemplating, hold out for reviews of the GeForce 8200/8300, those will bring proper HDMI (audio) support. I frankly wouldn't get a G35 today, unless you need a solution now and must go Intel.

[hingepin]

So the Gigabyte 780G board that states:

"The ALC889A enables high quality Full Rate Lossless Audio for content protected media and support for both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats for an exhilarating home theater entertainment experience"

Isn't the same as DDL or the DTS equal?

[jiggles]

Originally Posted by hingepin

So the Gigabyte 780G board that states:

"The ALC889A enables high quality Full Rate Lossless Audio for content protected media and support for both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats for an exhilarating home theater entertainment experience"

Isn't the same as DDL or the DTS equal?

It's DTS Connect. This may or may not be the same thing as DDL, it seems to work the same as the DDL add-in card in my main PC in all the respects I'm currently aware that I care about (ie. I plug a single cable between the motherboard and my DTS receiver and I get acceptable 5.1 sound without hiss or buzz or stuff).

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by hingepin

So the Gigabyte 780G board that states:

"The ALC889A enables high quality Full Rate Lossless Audio for content protected media and support for both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats for an exhilarating home theater entertainment experience"

Isn't the same as DDL or the DTS equal?

Actually what they are stating their is the soundcard will decode the TrueHD formats and DTS Master to analog. Which it will do, it will not send that data over the HDMI port untouched. The card does have DTS Connect which can reencode the formats to 1.5Mbps DTS, which for me is probably good enough. My receiver does not support the newer formats and I do not plan to replace it anytime soon. The Denon 3805 is still a damn nice receiver, it does have analog inputs however you loose all of the bass management and tuning/timing features that the Denon provides if you use analog.