Changed Hardware, Now System is Unstable

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by Abev107

The other thing that may have caused problems was my old wiz was pointing to a 'Frey Technologies' folder, instead of the 'SageTV' folder.

I presume what you mean here is that your Sage.properties pointed to a Wiz.bin in the Frey Technologies folder. When doing a clean install, you should not keep your old .properties file, since that does contain hardware/OS dependencies. Keep your old Wiz.bin (which contains your favorites and viewing history), but start with a fresh .properties file and reconfigure your video sources and UI preferences from scratch.

In your shoes, at this point I would try removing Sage completely and doing a fresh install, using your most recent backup of Wiz.bin from before the CPU swap. (You did make a backup before tinkering with your hardware, right?)

[Fastrack]

I'm leaning towards the CPU having issues under load.

First off - 52C for a P4 3GHz is WAY TOO hot. I also have a P4 3GHz and P4P800 Deluxe motherboard, and my processor runs
at a nice cool 32C (89F). And I even have mine overclocked to a 212MHz FSB.

I think you need to have a look at your CPU fan - what are the RPM's? Is it filled with dust? Did you put thermal compound on the CPU (between the cpu and the heatsink).

Mine is also running in a mid-tower case with a 350w power supply and all the hardware listed below.

Also insure your running your memory in DDR mode (matched in the Blue Slots first and for additional memory in the Black Slots)

Here's a screen capture:

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by Abev107

I left out one detail from my old stable system I had a Geforce fx5500. This whole rebuild started from me wanting to watch youtube vids and I needed vmr9. Everytime I switched it to vmr9 sage said I couldn't bc my card did not support acceleration. So I had a radeon 9600 laying around and put that in thinking this would make a difference.

Oh you evil, evil person. NEVER swap between ATI (now AMD) and NVidia without running a program that completely wipes the video drivers. ATI and NVidia drivers HATE each other!!!!

[Abev107]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

I'm leaning towards the CPU having issues under load.

Thanks fastrack. I think I remembered my temps incorrectly - unless the radeon runs hotter than the nvidia? (I attached a screen) CPU temp jumps around from 36 to 44 - I wonder if the bouncing around in temp means it's inaccurate? Or perhaps something else is wrong?

I know an can overclock - but can I underclock? Maybe if I slow the cpu down it's just something else I can try.

The stability of Sage is far better. But I am still getting the occasional lock up. Then the only buttons on the remote that work is the power(standby button) and I have to restart the wintv remote controller app.

My sage box is a dedicated sage tv, but with all of this testing I have a montior hooked in to the nvidia card as well as the inputs/outputs hooked in to my pvr150 card. Dumb question: Does the comp perform any differently when a monitor is hooked up - is it two way coimmunication or is the video signal strictly output only and always sending vid data whether a monitor is plugged in or not. Maybe just perception or desperation, but it seems that the comp is more stable when a monitor is unplugged?

One other thing that concerns me - I will look this up now but I have two similar entries in my sage.properties:

mmc/encoders/1642691032/1/3/tuning_plugin=C\:\\Program Files\\SageTV\\Common\\uu_irsage.dll

mmc/encoders/1642691032/2/0/tuning_plugin=C\:\\Program Files\\Frey Technologies2\\Common\\uu_irsage.dll

mmc/encoders/1642691032/2/1/tuning_plugin=C\:\\Program Files\\Frey Technologies2\\Common\\uu_irsage.dll

The sage dir is the current directory but the Frey is the old one. Do I still need the reference to the Frey dir? What's the diff between the two differnet plugin entries?

[Fastrack]

In your screenshot I noticed your core is a different Presscott vs Northwood. So the operating temperatures would be different for the two. I don't remember the normal temps for the core you have (Mine is a northwood). But a simple google search should help you with that.

When you say the temps change is this while the machine is doing nothing or under load?

[Abev107]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

When you say the temps change is this while the machine is doing nothing or under load?

The temps constantly change every 2 seconds or so. 36 - 42 - 38 - 42 - 36 - 44. I have read that the Asus Probe is not very accurate. Surely the temp can't be fluctuating that much and that quickly?

[GKusnick]

You should get rid of the old Frey Technologies entries in your properties file. If you have just one tuner, you shouldn't have three of these entries anyway. The extra ones are left over from previous installs. Again, the cleanest way to resolve this is to move the old properties file out of the way, let Sage create a new one, and reconfigure your settings through the UI.

[Abev107]

Ok Chapter 10

Pulled the old Asus MB out and replaced it with an Asus p4p800e deluxe I had lying around. Cleaned out java and sage and reinstalled Java 1.5.0x (which apparently is vers. 5 something?) and installed Sage 6.2.10. Enabled logging and here we go:

Ran ok for a few minutes than froze - I just let it sit to see if it would come out by itself. Sage never closed nor did windows - it just froze the frame.

Sat 3/8 16:04:12.545 VF processing job VFJob[LoadMF r=0.0 t=0 file=MediaFile[id=162017 A[151996,151846,"Vintage Games",58570@0308.15:00,120] host=mevo encodedBy=Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture Good format=MPEG2-PS 0:00:00 0 kbps [#0 Video[MPEG2-Video 29.97 fps 480x480 4:3 2800 kbps interlaced]#1 Audio[MP2 48000 Hz 2 channels 256 kbps]] C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Videos\SageTV\VintageGames-CalgaryvsEdmonton-151996-0.mpg, Seg0[Sat 3/8 16:02:27.461-Wed 12/31 19:00:00.000]] ifn=null] nPlayin=false
Sat 3/8 16:04:12.545 VF network encoder playback detected: false
Sat 3/8 16:04:12.546 VF waiting for data to appear in new file...liveWait=-105085
Sat 3/8 16:04:12.546 VF thread is now waiting for 0:00:00.200

It just kept repeating those lines while incrementing the "livewait" value. It did that for about 4 minutes then came out ouf it with this:

Sat 3/8 16:07:28.436 SIGNAL LOSS has been detected by the MediaPlayer
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.437 VF thread is now waiting for 0:00:00.200
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.440 stopEncoding0 called
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.546 Stopped graph res=0x0
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.548 MediaFile startSegment enc=null MediaFile[id=162017 A[151996,151846,"Vintage Games",58570@0308.15:00,120] host=mevo encodedBy=Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture Good format=MPEG2-PS 0:00:00 0 kbps [#0 Video[MPEG2-Video 29.97 fps 480x480 4:3 2800 kbps interlaced]#1 Audio[MP2 48000 Hz 2 channels 256 kbps]] C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Videos\SageTV\VintageGames-CalgaryvsEdmonton-151996-0.mpg, Seg0[Sat 3/8 16:02:27.461-Sat 3/8 16:07:28.547]]
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.549 MediaFile created subfile:C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Videos\SageTV\VintageGames-CalgaryvsEdmonton-151996-1.mpg MediaFile[id=162017 A[151996,151846,"Vintage Games",58570@0308.15:00,120] host=mevo encodedBy=Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture Good format=MPEG2-PS 0:00:00 0 kbps [#0 Video[MPEG2-Video 29.97 fps 480x480 4:3 2800 kbps interlaced]#1 Audio[MP2 48000 Hz 2 channels 256 kbps]] C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Videos\SageTV\VintageGames-CalgaryvsEdmonton-151996-0.mpg, Seg0[Sat 3/8 16:02:27.461-Sat 3/8 16:07:28.547]]
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.550 teardownGraph0 called for device='Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture'
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.636 VF processing job VFJob[LoadMF r=0.0 t=0 file=MediaFile[id=162017 A[151996,151846,"Vintage Games",58570@0308.15:00,120] host=mevo encodedBy=Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture Good format=MPEG2-PS 0:00:00 0 kbps [#0 Video[MPEG2-Video 29.97 fps 480x480 4:3 2800 kbps interlaced]#1 Audio[MP2 48000 Hz 2 channels 256 kbps]] C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Videos\SageTV\VintageGames-CalgaryvsEdmonton-151996-0.mpg, Seg0[Sat 3/8 16:02:27.461-Sat 3/8 16:07:28.547], Seg1[Sat 3/8 16:07:28.548-Wed 12/31 19:00:00.000]] ifn=null] nPlayin=false
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.637 VF network encoder playback detected: false
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.638 MediaFile verification deleting segment this=MediaFile[id=162017 A[151996,151846,"Vintage Games",58570@0308.15:00,120] host=mevo encodedBy=Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture Good format=MPEG2-PS 0:00:00 0 kbps [#0 Video[MPEG2-Video 29.97 fps 480x480 4:3 2800 kbps interlaced]#1 Audio[MP2 48000 Hz 2 channels 256 kbps]] C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Videos\SageTV\VintageGames-CalgaryvsEdmonton-151996-0.mpg, Seg0[Sat 3/8 16:02:27.461-Sat 3/8 16:07:28.547], Seg1[Sat 3/8 16:07:28.548-Wed 12/31 19:00:00.000]] segfile=C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Videos\SageTV\VintageGames-CalgaryvsEdmonton-151996-0.mpg
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.639 VF waiting for data to appear in new file...liveWait=-89
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.639 VF thread is now waiting for 0:00:00.200
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.654 initGraph0 (ver 2.0.2) called capDev='Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture-0', Country:'United States of America', TuningMode:Cable
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.656 Add analog filters for device=Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture
Sat 3/8 16:07:28.744 switchToConnector0 tuningMode:Cable

Any thoughts?

[Fastrack]

I see some comments about signal loss etc. Seems odd on a analog card, I wonder if you could have some bad sectors/clusters on your drive. I saw you ran HDtach - have you tried running the diag tools from the manufacture of the drive?

The java I'm currently running is jre-6u4-windows-i586-p.exe

[GKusnick]

Were you trying to record something or watch Live TV when this happened? Or just sitting at a menu? Do you have your menus configured to play video in the background all the time? If so, turn that option off until you get your signal loss issue resolved.

Also I notice you're recording to a directory deep under Documents and Settings. You should really set up a separate recording partition formatted in 64K clusters.

[MrD]

Definitely the video card, especially since you changed from Nvidia to ATI.

Find one of those free driver removal utilities and make sure you remove the old nvidia drivers *completely*.

An Nvidia 6xxx/7xxx class card will do you right.

[Abev107]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

I see some comments about signal loss etc. Seems odd on a analog card, I wonder if you could have some bad sectors/clusters on your drive. I saw you ran HDtach - have you tried running the diag tools from the manufacture of the drive?

The java I'm currently running is jre-6u4-windows-i586-p.exe

I ran HDTune, but I will try and run a diag from Western Digital.

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Were you trying to record something or watch Live TV when this happened? Or just sitting at a menu? Do you have your menus configured to play video in the background all the time? If so, turn that option off until you get your signal loss issue resolved.

Also I notice you're recording to a directory deep under Documents and Settings. You should really set up a separate recording partition formatted in 64K clusters.

This occurred just watching Live TV. I just had it on in the background not touching anything to see if it would crash.

I have a separate Hard drive in 64k clusters on my systems that I haven't configured yet with all of the reinstallations - I will do that now.

Originally Posted by MrD

Definitely the video card, especially since you changed from Nvidia to ATI.

Actually went from Nvidia to ATI back to Nvidia I just looked up instructions on how to remove all references to ATI drivers in the registry and removed them.

Thanks for everyone's help...let's see what happens. Sunday is a big night for
recording

[Abev107]

Everyone still with me?

One thing I have noticed on these new installs that I did not notice before: I sometimes look in on the Sgae pc with RealVNC, but I also currently have a monitor hooked in to it for testing. I have noticed that I can see playback on the PC as well as on the tv. The pvr150 goes to the TV, the Nvidia goes to the monitor.

This was never the case before. I could never see live or recording tv on the monitor itself - I only got the OSD. Is it possible that two outputs is causing problems? Can I shut off tv output to the monitor and get it back to where it was (just showing the OSD)?

The reason I ask is that if I 'hammer' the OSD - click the status button several times repeated making the OSD pop up and hide, I can freeze Sage.

Here's one event that I see that doesn't look good:

EventThread-SageTV_Process_Local_UI Hang Detected - hang time = 2250.

The other item I wonder about is the logging file refers to the pvr as a 350 when it's actually a 150. Is "350 just a generic term for all hauppauge's?

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by Abev107

The pvr150 goes to the TV, the Nvidia goes to the monitor.
...
The other item I wonder about is the logging file refers to the pvr as a 350 when it's actually a 150. Is "350 just a generic term for all hauppauge's?

If it has TV-Out, it's a 350, not a 150. Most people with 350s eventually give up on trying to get its TV-Out to work reliably with Sage, and just use their graphics card's TV-Out instead. Most recent graphics cards have hardware-accelerated MPEG decoding, and can do things like VMR9 that the 350 can't do. So there's really not much advantage to using the 350.

[Abev107]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

If it has TV-Out, it's a 350, not a 150. Most people with 350s eventually give up on trying to get its TV-Out to work reliably with Sage, and just use their graphics card's TV-Out instead. Most recent graphics cards have hardware-accelerated MPEG decoding, and can do things like VMR9 that the 350 can't do. So there's really not much advantage to using the 350.

Hmm I always thought I had a 150... So whatever my card is - Cable coax goes in to the card, and output go out of the card via an "s-video-like" cable that has rgb connectors on it which connect directly to my tv. So audio and video comes out of my wintv card and goes to the TV. Should I be running the video out of the nvidia card? Even on my previous stable system I ran everything in and out of the wintv card.

Had somewhat of a success tonight. Was able to watch The Wire from start to end (1:30) without problems. The trick was, in my best estimation was watching it live through sage and never touching the remote to activate the OSD.

I am having a feeling that activating the OSD in any way is causing the lock up. As I said before, I can freeze sage if I hammer the osd by clicking the status button on the remote to make the osd pop up. Could Sage be confused by the wintv card and the video card?

I recorded 3 shows total today while sage was in standby. 2 were recorded as complete (1 file), 1 was recorded and ended up in 3 parts - apparently sage was restarting itself.

[Abev107]

Here's the latest on my freeze's:

Mon 3/10 11:57:35.181 WIN32 FAILURE HR=0x80004002 FILE=.\CPlayerData.cpp LINE=1622
Mon 3/10 11:57:35.181 WIN32 FAILURE HR=0x80004002 FILE=.\CPlayerData.cpp LINE=1641

Does that many any sense to anyone?

[gplasky]

You need to install Service Pack 2 for your Windows XP.

Gerry

[reboot_this]

Originally Posted by Abev107

Hmm I always thought I had a 150... So whatever my card is - Cable coax goes in to the card, and output go out of the card via an "s-video-like" cable that has rgb connectors on it which connect directly to my tv. So audio and video comes out of my wintv card and goes to the TV. Should I be running the video out of the nvidia card? Even on my previous stable system I ran everything in and out of the wintv card.

Not sure if this helps, but it's the simplest fix for the biggest head-scratchers that are overlooked... (yes, years ago I had my vehicle towed back to my house, only to find out it was out of gas! That hurt my ego but I WAS young/dumb)

Back to the topic...

I don't have a pvr 350, but I do have a pvr250 and it has an s-video connection on it but it serves as an "input" not an "output" (as I understand it, the 250 is just like the 150, just older). I'm not sure if it is even feasible to connect a pvr150/250's s-video connection to a tv and see playback or not. But it would be good to take an actual look at the pvr card in your system if possible, just to make sure it is whatever it is.

BTW I did take a quick look over at the hauppauge site and noticed that the pvr350 has two s-video connections on it and the pvr150/250 have one s-video connection. How many does your pvr card have? There is an "add-on" Hauppauge A/V Cable available thru the SageTV store which adds another set of "inputs", but those are on a separate pci slot adapter.

[troycheek]

Originally Posted by Abev107

Hmm I always thought I had a 150... So whatever my card is - Cable coax goes in to the card, and output go out of the card via an "s-video-like" cable that has rgb connectors on it which connect directly to my tv.

I'm no expert, but that definitely sounds like a 350. In spite of the higher model number, it's older (and some say lower quality) than the 150. You might want to check the Hauppauge website and make sure you have the latest drivers from the 250/350 support page and not the 150/500 page.

Edit: On second thought, do what "reboot this" said and see what's written what's on the card itself before you change anything else.

[Abev107]

I am going to jinx myself here.

Earlier today I opened up my comp again and made some changes. I swapped out the p4 3.0 for the celeron 1.8 (that I had in an original, stable config), turned on a second fan in the front of the box, and moved the capture card to a different PCI slot (I am pretty sure its a 350 ).

So far so good. I did have one freeze just before which I have to say is not uncommon for even my stable set up. The best way to describe that crash is when I am watching a recorded program, I am close to "catching up" to the program live (within a few minutes) and coming close to the end of the program. But that's not a big deal - I didn't have logging enabled so I am not sure what went wrong.

So back to my setup. From the best of my knowledge and googling "Win32 failures" are related to hardware failures. Here's what I have narrowed it down to:

1 - Bad P4 3.0 processor
2 - P4 processor was running too hot for my system and was causing the pvr cap card to fail
3 - P4 processor was pulling too much power from my 350w power supply and effecting the capture card or other hardware
4 - Entire system was running too hot regardless of what processor (adding the 2nd fan made a difference)
5 - Moving the capture card to a diff slot.

I am almost afraid to touch the system now that it is pretty stable. I guess the next step would be to put the p4 back in and see what happens. Then it's either heat or power.

I am so shell shocked I wonder one thing? If the p4 causes the lockups, would I be able to simply swap the celeron back in - seems stupid, but the processor can't "hurt" anything can it?

If I had to guess, I would say the solution was simply moving the card to a diff pci slot. I have read it in troubleshooting, but I just didn't give it much thought. How could moving it to a diff slot actually do something? Someone did try to explain to me that pci slots "hold on" or data from what was previously installed there and that can cause problems.

I think I am going to keep my set up like this for a few days and keep an eye on it - then maybe play with it again

Thanks everyone for their help and if anyone has any thoughts please chime in.