HDHR, HD100, LAN bandwidth question

[hemicuda]

I've attached 2 captures of what Task Manager reports on the LAN. 2 HD streams from the HDHR and 1 HD stream to the HD100. I can't test out my theory tonight due to scheduling constraints. However, I suspect that I have a bottleneck somewhere. I've never seen my link usage go above 60% on machine-to-machine transfers and the dip in the incoming trace makes me think that recording would have had glitches. Can anybody shed some light on this for me? I'm trying to figure out just how much the LAN can support. I know 1 stream in and out appears to be ok; but 2 in and 1 out? The server has an onboard gigabit tied to a 16port (5 in use) 10/100 switch for the LAN.

[carlgar]

Your task manager does not show the link speed, i suspect it is 100 Mbps. A few days ago I discovered that my 1Gbps server had connected at 100 Mbps instead of 1 Gbps because I used the auto connect. I now only let it connect at 1 Gbps. IIRC, the normal useage for the HD extender for a 1080i show is about 2.5% of a 1 Gbps connection. The HDHR should use no more that 5% if recording 2 1080i shows.

[hemicuda]

yeah, I hid that column. it's 100mbps since i don't have a gig-e switch yet. so I can probably estimate 10x your figures for my link. looks as if it's boiling down to 2 options then... buy a gig-e switch that throttles each port independently (I think SMC does, a lot don't) or hope I have a spare PCI for an extra NIC.

[carlgar]

The 2 switches I use on my networks are http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833122141 and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833122140.
I would not consider an extra NIC unless it is PCI-express which mine is.

[hemicuda]

during the next round of upgrades I'll be grabbing a gig-e switch. until then the SMC is nestled in a spare pci slot dedicated to the HDHR. I tried bridging them, but it looks as if my 100mbit switch doesn't support it. for those interested I'll jot down the numbers I saw while testing the setup...

This is per stream on a 100mbit link:

720p 14-15%
1080i 19-20%

Remember when 10/100 hardware was soooo fast?

Oh yeah... stupid system gave me one heck of a scare when I rebooted. The onboard SATA failed its hardware check. After much fretting and card swapping it turns out to have been the connection on the HD itself. Figured this out after I unplugged the data cable from the board and the server booted normally.

[fyodor]

I'm not sure how your network is physically arranged but the easiest thing to do might be to just add another NIC. I know that you said that you don't want to do so, but getting network traffic to go the way you want it to can be a giant, unpredictable, PitA, and it might be easier for you in the long run to just physically separate the networks. You don't even need an extra switch-you can get connect the HDHR directly to the second network card.

Originally Posted by hemicuda

during the next round of upgrades I'll be grabbing a gig-e switch. until then the SMC is nestled in a spare pci slot dedicated to the HDHR. I tried bridging them, but it looks as if my 100mbit switch doesn't support it. for those interested I'll jot down the numbers I saw while testing the setup...

This is per stream on a 100mbit link:

720p 14-15%
1080i 19-20%

Remember when 10/100 hardware was soooo fast?

Oh yeah... stupid system gave me one heck of a scare when I rebooted. The onboard SATA failed its hardware check. After much fretting and card swapping it turns out to have been the connection on the HD itself. Figured this out after I unplugged the data cable from the board and the server booted normally.

[camus]

FWIW, I run 10/100 and have no problems recording 2 shows off the HDHR and serving a HD100 and another Sage Client, 2 in/2 out no problems.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by camus

FWIW, I run 10/100 and have no problems recording 2 shows off the HDHR and serving a HD100 and another Sage Client, 2 in/2 out no problems.

That's interesting because I could not do this without upgrading everything to a Gigabit backbone myself. I was getting dropped frames and stuttering within the recordings themselves with 100 Mb switches. When DL throughput was over about 34-35 mbps, everything went to heck. I've read that switches actually start saturating at around 1/3 of rated speed. I also have 2 network encoders for DirecTV so I'm often downloading 40 mbps+ to the server continually.

Have you measured throughput when streaming 2 1080i shows with something like DU Meter?

This all said, gigabit equipment is cheap, there isn't any reason NOT to use it.

[hemicuda]

Originally Posted by fyodor

I'm not sure how your network is physically arranged but the easiest thing to do might be to just add another NIC. I know that you said that you don't want to do so, but getting network traffic to go the way you want it to can be a giant, unpredictable, PitA, and it might be easier for you in the long run to just physically separate the networks. You don't even need an extra switch-you can get connect the HDHR directly to the second network card.

this is exactly what I did (and found out) prior to the post. i'm surprised at camus getting that good of a throughput. Maybe I need to tweak my settings or something. anyhow, I only have 4 wired ports going to other rooms plus a 54g AP. an 8 port gig-e switch should do me just fine for now.

[camus]

Originally Posted by phelme

Have you measured throughput when streaming 2 1080i shows with something like DU Meter?

This all said, gigabit equipment is cheap, there isn't any reason NOT to use it.

Never used DU meter, I have checked on the server recording 2 and streaming 1 to a client and it was running 45-50%. Didn't check to see if all are 1080i specifically though.

I had planned on getting a GB switch when I got the HD100 but never got around to it, I thought I would need the speed plus I need some ports, right now I got three switches sitting next to each other = lots of ac adapters.

[garyellis]

Do ya'll think the cables might have any effect?

I installed my ethernet cables about 7 years ago... I'm sure they are CAT 5...but, no better...

I have a GB port on my server..and it runs to a GB switch..the switch has 2 HD100's coming to it as well as my HDHR....

When I am recording 2 HD programs, I see 50% + usage on my network...

wondering if better cables would help...i.e, cat 6?


Gary Ellis

[RobJ]

In general, the word is: use Cat5e or better for Gigabit connections, but I tend to take those recommendations with a 'grain of salt'. I'm sure there are well-made and well-installed Cat5 connections that support higher speeds than some poorly made and/or poorly installed Cat6 cables.

Your Cat5 should be OK for the connections to the HD100's and the HDHR, but it would definitely be recommended to replace the server to switch cable with better. I do recommend Cat6 over Cat5e, because there is not much cost difference, and it provides future-proofing.

That 50% is too high for a Gigabit connection, so you may well be seeing too many collisions for a Gigabit negotiation. Often there will be color coded lights near one or both connectors, on the switch and possibly on the server port, that should tell you what connection speed was negotiated. (You probably already knew that.)

[camus]

Took a minute last night ran an unscientific test.

Recording 1 1080i and 1 720p (couldn't interupt wife's recording) and streaming 2 1080i shows, the server was showing 68-72%. Then I added a DVD stream from the server with no problems, the LAN was peaked at 78%. I wasn't having any playback or recording issues, but I will add that it wasn't sustained over a long period either. Not sure if it is any use to anyone.

[hemicuda]

I'm also still having issues w/ either dropped info from the HDHR to the HD or low signal to it from Comcast. I just can't seem to get a solid recording of Idol w/o it skipping somewhere in the recording. The HDHR is on an amplified (electroline) drop w/ a 2Ghz splitter. I couldn't really tell a difference in strength w/ or w/o the splitter. no channel I get is over 94%; while VOD are the lowest at 89%.

I can't say that I've seen skipping except on shows that were already finished recording. odd.

[carlgar]

Is your sig. really correct HDHR (20080305)? A good place to start is HDHR (20080307). How much skipping 1 second or several seconds at a time? Have you at the HDHR troubleshooting guide in the dropped packet section?

[hemicuda]

the firmware is still at 20080305 while the software has a 0307 stamp. just checked the site. I installed the 07 software a couple of days after it came out.

I went through the troubleshooting guide. As I've said in another post I'm not going to ditch zonealarm unless someone shows me a better alternative. If that is indeed the root cause of my problems then I'll just have to deal w/ it until a fix is created. Thanks for reminding me though. I wonder if there's a way to exclude ZA from a specific interface since the one the HDHR uses doesn't go anywhere else.

[phelme]

Hemicuda: what kind of signal, symbol & quality levels are you seeing with the HDHR via the Manager app? I find that with my Comcast connection, if the signal itself is below 87% or so things start to break up. Comcast has been ripping apart our neighborhood lines for the past several months with an upgrade and my signal has been varying wildly.

I recommend you also try out DU Meter to measure your network bandwidth, a free trial is here: http://www.dumeter.com/. If you're pushing the 35 Mbps mark without a gigabit backbone, packet collisions could be your problem. there is another tool out there called iPerf out there which can measure high volumes of network traffic between two computers. Using these tools is how I determined my old 100 Mbps switches crapped out around 33 Mbps when all my clients, network encoders and HDHR's were all streaming simultaneously. But I have a lot of long cable runs in my house. your experience may vary.

[hemicuda]

true. I of course can never see those numbers for recorded shows. all the graphs are in the green except VOD when I do inspect (look up about 2 posts). the symbol and quality levels I've never seen below 95% as best I can remember. The HDHR is on a dedicated SMC gig-e NIC.

[hemicuda]

on a new build. Stats in my sig when I update them after this post.

I get tearing (I think thats the term) in VLC w/ the HDHR GUI. Today's HD recordings in Sage are stuttering like crazy on the HD100. My specific h/w list is Here.

I haven't gone back and made the tweaks to the nic config as posted elsewhere on the board yet so that's another possibility. I'm also back on the splitter behind the server so that's probably the 2nd change I'll make if the nic config doesn't work.

Edit: of course now I can't find the reference for that NIC tweak. It's not the one about the power saving.

[Flash69]

Hemicuda,

I don't see anything about you upgrading your switch. Can you answer the following questions?

1. What switch(s) are you using? Brand, model.
2. What speed is your server connected at? Still 100 Mbit?
3. Have you tried to hard code your NIC speed and duplex settings? I work in I/T and as a general rule we ALWAYS want to hard code NIC settings to either 1000/Full or 100/Full.
4. Do you have another computer you can copy a semi-large file to (or from) the Sage server? If so find a file (like a Sage recording) and copy it to your other machine. Let us know what kind of speed Task Manager/Networking shows.
5. Can you go to your Sage server and click Start -> Run -> type "cmd" and press enter. Then type "ipconfig /all" and post the output.

Also if your switch has collision lights watch the switch while you are copying the large file. If you see the collision light flashing a lot you might have a networking problem we can't help you solve.

This will be a good start.