HD100 UI resolution/picture quality question

[MeInMaui]

Hi,

I am setting up my HD100 to replace my living room pc client running an LCD TV at 1080p. The client is connected via a DVI input and the extender is using an HDMI input. I have verified that the extender is at 1080p.

In the process of setting up SageMC on the extender, I have been switching back and forth between the client and extender and have very clearly noticed a significant differenced in the image quality of the UI. It appears as if the extender is rendering the UI at ~640x480 and then upscaling the result to 1080p.

Further evidence of this is that high-res show icons are drawn very large in the recording details screen (they are set to display unscaled in this screen in SageMC), which is exactly what happens when the display is set to VGA on the client or on the SD extender.

So here are my questions:

Has anyone else seen this?
Is there anything I can do to fix it?

I have already tried nuking the extender properties file and starting the extender setup again from scratch, but it had no effect.

Thanks for any input/suggestions.

Aloha,
Mike

[camTexas]

I saw a similar issue with both of my HD100 units. I believe it has something to do with the allowing for native resolution switching. I got around it by selecting only 720p, 1080i, and 1080p for the TV modes accepted. This way the GUI was always at least 720p (and looks nice). There may be another work around since the units first came out. However the HD100 seemed to upscale SD as good as my TV was so I was happy with solution I put in place back in December.

Hope that helps

- Chad

[BFisher]

Same here... I just set the HDExtender resolution options (in the main config screen... before Sage starts on the extender) to the best resolution my TVs could support and left it there. Seems to work fine.

[Addict]

I haven't seen this problem, my resolution is very crips for all menus on both my Extenders (a 1080i tube and a 1080p monitor).

I agree with the rest, uncheck all but the highest resolution your screen can handle. Otherwise, you have to cycle through the resolutions using one of the two bottom-left buttons (forget which one it is).

Also check that your...uhhh...can't think of what's it's called. The setting in Sage that has the circle...make sure the circle is a circle and not oval. I noticed a little (not a lot, but a little) clarity issue on my monitor when that wasn't set correctly.

G'luck,
AL

[MeInMaui]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I've already made sure the output resolution is set to 1080p and the aspect ratio is set correctly. I'll try getting some comparative pictures together tonight to give an idea of what I'm seeing. I should probably try to program up a test STV with a resolution calibration scale to make certain of my observations. Thanks again.

Aloha,
Mike

[MeInMaui]

Ok here is some more info.

I took a couple of comparative photos so you can see what I'm talking about. The first image is a recording details screen on my client at 1920x1080. The second image is the same screen on the HD100 verified to be at 1080p.

I also quickly made up a resolution chart and a quickie test STV to display it. The chart has alternating black and white frames at 640x480, 1280x720, and 1920x1080 resolutions. The third photo shows that the UI is being rendered at what looks to be 720x480. (Sorry for the dark picture)

I've also attached the test STV and resolution chart in case anyone wants to test this out. To install, just extract the two files in the zip archive into your ...\SageTV\STVs\SageTV3 folder and load the Resolution Test.xml file in SageTV. Note that the STV contains only the resolution chart. You will have to manually edit your HD100 properties file in your ...\SageTV\Clients folder (while the extender is turned off) to switch back to another STV file.

Thanks for bearing with me. I'm open to any other suggestions.

Aloha,
Mike

[stanger89]

FWIW, I've noticed the UI can appear soft at times (much better at high resolutions). However I have not noticed any sort of softening of video played back through the extender.

[inseattle]

Hey Mike, I have seen this on my HD Extender since day 1. I asked around on the forums and I think someone mentioned that it could be aliasing. I currently have the extender hooked up via HDMI to by 40" panny. I have tried component and that was really bad. Yesterday I tried component to my 27" viewsonic lcd and that looked almost as good at the PC client. The viewsonic only goes up to 720p. I have tried all sorts of resolutions on my Panny.

Would be nice to get this figured out.
The video quality is excellent - noticeable better than the PC client. But I want a great UI too! I have had to revert back to my PC client for the time being.

[MeInMaui]

Thanks for the info. I'm glad it's not just me.

I opened a support ticket with SageTV last week. We have had one e-mail exchange so far where I verified that this is also happening using the default STV. I refered them to my simple test STV posted above. Now I'm just waiting to hear back again.

Aloha,
Mike

[MeInMaui]

I heard back from SageTV Support. Here is what they said:

I talked with a developer about this. He said the UI plane is lower
resolution for technical reasons. This doesn't reduce the resolution of the
video in any way though which runs at full resolution. For optimal memory
usage people should use a background that is exactly 960x540 or smaller.

Aloha,
Mike

[camTexas]

Hmmm... I'd have to say "bollocks" to their response (no offense SageTV Support gods as you've helped me many times in the past).

This just doesn't seem to make sense since I can do nothing but turn on native switching and setup my HD100 with all video modes enabled (480i through 1080p). I get a distinct difference, not in a good way, in how the GUI looks following watching a SD recording. My high res background still looks high res if I only allow HD+ resolutions on the HD100 unit.

as I said... Hmmm

- Chad

[Opus4]

I think the SageTV developers know what they are talking about when they commented that the UI plane has a lower max res than the video output, since they wrote the code to make use of the HD100.

If you are outputting a low res SD TV picture, then the UI will be displayed at that lower res also, but if the video is being output at a much higher res, then the UI may not be created at the the same internal res as the res sent to the TV. So, the UI can be displayed at different resolutions, but it won't internally match the highest possible video output res. (Did that make sense?)

- Andy

[benjamintm]

It seems there are two resolutions in discussion:
1. The video resolution, which is always displayed at its correct setting
2. The UI resolution, which while watching SD content reverts to a lower resolution and while watching HD content uses a higher resolution.

The question, for me, is why does the HD Extender switch the UI resolutions depending on the content being viewed. Why not use one? Also, because you can tell the HD extender to always use 720p and above, it seems the system can provide an HD UI resolution regardless of the video resolution.

Ben

[MeInMaui]

Let me try putting it a different way.

The UI will only be rendered at a resolution up to a maximum of 960x540 (though in my tests it seemed to be 720x480) regardless of the output resolution selected. The UI will just be upscaled from its rendered resolution to the display resolution if necessary. It doesn't have anything to do with video playback.

Aloha,
Mike

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I think the SageTV developers know what they are talking about when they commented that the UI plane has a lower max res than the video output, since they wrote the code to make use of the HD100.

Well, there's "technical reasons" meaning a limitation of the underlying software/hardware preventing a better solution from being feasible and "technical reasons" meaning the devs know what's best so stop whining about it. I know I've used it both ways

That being said, I've been very satisfied with the way the HD extender looks on my 50" 1080p plasma so I was pretty surprised to see that some people were noticing issues.

[MeInMaui]

Just for the record, I'm not complaining about this.

I am actually very pleased with SageTV's technical support. They found the answer and weren't afraid to tell me. In fact, they gave me permission to share the info here on the forums. I'm very impressed with that. And even though the answer wasn't what I was hoping for, it at least lets me know that it isn't something I'm doing wrong. It's amazing how much less bothersome something can be when you know it isn't your fault.

Anyway, I just thought I'd say that since this thread has the potential to devolve pretty quickly.

Aloha,
Mike

[benjamintm]

I agree the provided answer is valid and frank. The question I have is why does it switch depending on the resolution of the video last watched. It would seem that they should be able to maintain one resolution regardless of the video. Of course there may be a programmatic or hardware reason to switch resolutions to match videos.

Ben

[stanger89]

Not sure what you're asking. If you've got native output switching enabled, everything (UI included) switches to the resolution of the media you're playing. With Native Output Switching enabled the UI is drawn at the resolution of the source content (up to a max of 960x540).

If NOS is disabled, then the UI is always drawn at the resolution you select (up to 960x540).

You can't output the UI at one resolution and video at another at the same time.

[perf]

What about photos? Are they displayed at the video resolution (in my case 1024x768, the native resolution of my plasma), or at the UI resolution?

/Per

[benjamintm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You can't output the UI at one resolution and video at another at the same time.

Why is that? Actually, more to the question, why does the resolution linger after I've stopped a video? For instance, if I'm watching a 480i SD show, the UI will be in 480i mode even after I stop the video. It's only after I watch a HD show that the resolution switches back to 1080p.

Ben