Sage 6.3.10 is a disaster

[pgitta]

[in my opinion]

I can't believe I fell for it again.

Just when I get everything working perfectly, I go and let myself get sucked in to an update, only to suffer through beta testing a prematurely released POS.

And no, it's not my system. This version is horrible, lagging constantly, locking up on screen changes, freezing on FF and RW.

Back to 6.3.5 and all is well again.

I like Sage and all, but I'm beginning to think they should leave well enough alone.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by pgitta

I can't believe I fell for it again.

Just when I get everything working perfectly, I go and let myself get sucked in to an update, only to suffer through beta testing a prematurely released POS.

And no, it's not my system. This version is horrible, lagging constantly, locking up on screen changes, freezing on FF and RW.

Back to 6.3.5 and all is well again.

I like Sage and all, but I'm beginning to think they should leave well enough alone.

Since you put it that way i'm assuming you aren't asking for assistance with your problems - just want to vent?

Just for reference in case you might think you're the only one using the latest version, I and many others have had great success with the latest version of SageTV. I'd love to try to help if you want the help.

[kricker]

I am running 6.3.10 on a fresh XP install, and it feels no different to me than any other 6.3.x build. Like Brent asked, you are probably just venting and don't really care, but I'm just saying it can run as well as 6.3.5 for others.

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by Brent

Since you put it that way i'm assuming you aren't asking for assistance with your problems - just want to vent?

Yeah, pretty much.

I like the program when it's set up and stable, but I don't think I'm the only one to get frustrated with it.

I spent countless hours getting it to do what it claims to do. I cannot imagine ANY other computer application that requires so many hours of fiddling, tweaking, adjusting, reloading, etc from its customers as SageTV does.

It's like Ford selling you a car and telling you, "Here, it may run and it may not. You're going to have to figure it out"

And if it's working well for you, but dozens have the same problems, then it's because of some dumb thing like you accidentally aren't using the default audio codec, or whatever, that USED to work, but now doesn't with this version. The official answer is don't use the Sage audio decoder?

Like telling the doctor it hurts when I do this, and them telling you "Well don't do that then"

What a joke.

But thank you for the offer of help. I'll stick with an older version and check this forum first before I ever upgrade again.

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by kricker

I am running 6.3.10 on a fresh XP install, and it feels no different to me than any other 6.3.x build. Like Brent asked, you are probably just venting and don't really care, but I'm just saying it can run as well as 6.3.5 for others.

I am glad it's working for you, believe me. But many are having the same exact issues, apparently because the developers didn't take the time to make sure what worked with the program before, continued to work. End of rant.

SageTV 6.3.10 locks on channel change

6.3.10 & HDHR: Live Stutter

SageService Version 6.3.10 Randomly Maxes CPU Resources

6.3.10 lockups in recorded shows

6.3.10 and problem with Live TV

6.3.10 Delay in WDM and User Interface loading

[kricker]

Oh...no need to post links to others issues, I know they are there. I have had a few myself I had to get sorted out. I was just saying there are those of us that it works the same as 6.3.5. I didn't say I didn't have any issues. 6.3.10 runs no different than any other 6.3.x build for me. I know you are frustrated, but just blatantly calling it a POS is an insult to the programmers who constantly work so hard on it, and would most likely help you if you asked for it.

[Motofreak75]

Well seems like you have a few issues with sage. But if there is an actual issues that more people would be posting instead of the select few creating threads ?

many different hardware and software combos reek of havoc, to say the latest version of a big, stinking turd that fails on ace like a crack addict to drugs.

And this is what I have learned

While not "f**king" with it and use quailty parts has turned my my sage system to rock solid media server, that hosts HD dvds and 3tbs of movies and photos and mp3s . for all my stx's needs. It funny how you blame Sage while many others have almost zero issues.

The biggest thing is, if you have issues then use the "Free" tech support so they can help you figure out if its a Sage issue or the problem is with you or your setup. But to come on here and troll this forum.

IF your that mad to post this thread, then I think you should try something a bit easier like MCE !

Priceless

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by Motofreak75

Well seems like you have a few issues with sage. But if there is an actual issues that more people would be posting instead of the select few creating threads ?

many different hardware and software combos reek of havoc, to say the latest version of a big, stinking turd that fails on ace like a crack addict to drugs.

And this is what I have learned

While not "f**king" with it and use quailty parts has turned my my sage system to rock solid media server, that hosts HD dvds and 3tbs of movies and photos and mp3s . for all my stx's needs. It funny how you blame Sage while many others have almost zero issues.

The biggest thing is, if you have issues then use the "Free" tech support so they can help you figure out if its a Sage issue or the problem is with you or your setup. But to come on here and troll this forum.

IF your that mad to post this thread, then I think you should try something a bit easier like MCE !

Priceless

Easy now fella. I don't want you to have a hemmorage or anything. Now go find a good English tutor.

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by kricker

Oh...no need to post links to others issues, I know they are there. I have had a few myself I had to get sorted out. I was just saying there are those of us that it works the same as 6.3.5. I didn't say I didn't have any issues. 6.3.10 runs no different than any other 6.3.x build for me. I know you are frustrated, but just blatantly calling it a POS is an insult to the programmers who constantly work so hard on it, and would most likely help you if you asked for it.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I do appreciate their work, just get a little frustrated having to constantly defend this thing to the spousal unit.

Didn't mean to insult anyone...well maybe the poster above, but no one else.

[sleonard]

Well I am one of those that 6.3.10 just doesn't like so I have a bit of sympathy for the OP. In fact, the reason I am checking the forums right now is that I just had to end task on Sage when it went to 100% CPU and the whole computer stopped responding. It took almost 10 minutes just to get Task Manager up and kill Sage.

I usually wait for my frustration to recede some before posting but I say if the OP admits he's just venting then then more power to him. I know that a few choice words directed at Sage are fresh off my lips

S

[davephan]

Pgitta,

If version 6.3.10 is such a disaster for you, then you should image your computer back to the just before you installed version 6.3.10.

If you don't use disk imaging, then you should use disk imaging. You may need to uninstall SageTV and install a back level version. Or in the worst case rebuild the system from scratch. Then take an image of your C drive just before upgrading to the new version of SageTV. Then you will be prepared for a quick and easy recovery in case the upgrade does not go well.

It would be helpful to know what type of hardware and OS you are using for others to help diagnose the problems. You could create a signature which lists your hardware and OS on each post automatically.

I have seen when using "Scheduled Recordings", "Search", it takes a long time to update the search results as typing in each character - this is much slower than a couple years ago - even with a fast dual-core and 2 gigs of RAM. Perhaps the search speed could be improved by optimizing the code or using something other than Java, which is very slow at 'run time' compared to other computer languages.

I am using SageTV Version 6.3.10.166 and Java 1.6.0_05 without any problems. Sometimes SageTV does require tweaking. It is not as simple as a VCR or off the shelf DVR, but it has a lot of features those simple solutions don't offer.


Dave

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by davephan

Pgitta,

If version 6.3.10 is such a disaster for you, then you should image your computer back to the just before you installed version 6.3.10.

If you don't use disk imaging, then you should use disk imaging...
Dave

I do image the drive, but that introduces issues of its own if you have made changes to other apps (Girder, for instance) more recent than the image.

I image every month or so ( I'm not crazy, after all) and use it only in emergency situations.

Interesting you said what my point was all along. "So and so doesn't work as well as it used to!

Updates are supposed to make things BETTER, not introduce more problems and degrade previous performance!

And then you try to say one word and a dozen Sage "groupies" jump out of the wordwork to denounce you like some crazed Hiltler youth that think Sage can do no wrong.

And the HTPC, different setups, etc. excuse is wearing thin with me. This program has been around for a while now, and it seems its no more bug free now than it was day one. Why can't it detect your hardware and adjust itself more?

Or the bugs have just changed names.

Like I said. 6.5 works great for me, so I'll stay where I am. I'm just saying Ishouldn't have had to go back to the dealer and ask for my trade-in back because the new car I got doesn't work.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by pgitta

Like I said. 6.5 works great for me, so I'll stay where I am. I'm just saying Ishouldn't have had to go back to the dealer and ask for my trade-in back because the new car I got doesn't work.

So you don't want help with your problem then right?

You can't be surprised or expect any different response from people when you go on a bashing spree. You're obviously frustrated with your situation, but making blanket statements blaming your problems on the software is classic denial. Nobody here is saying you aren't having problems, just saying that just because you are having them doesn't prove that its a problem with the software...

[Razillian]

Until Sage sells a completely off the shelf computer designed for and running SageTV, the car analogy doesn't really work. I understand what you are getting at, but all you are buying from Sage is the interior of the car, everything you can touch while sitting in the drivers seat. The chassis, engine, transmission and A/C unit are all from someone else.

With 6.3.5 the components of your car interior matched up pretty well with all those other parts and with 6.3.10 it doesn't. But there are so many different manufacturers, makes and models of engines, transmissions, etc, etc that there is no reasonable way for the car interior manufacturer to make a one size fits all "better" without customer feedback.

Yes, they broke somethings that worked in an attempt to make things better. And for some of the PVR hardware combinations, things did get better. For others it got worse. But they need to know what got worse, what combinations of hardware no longer fits into the "one size fits all" category so they can try to fix it. Their software encoding is a good example of this, audio goes out of sync with some capture cards, but not all. So without the feedback of those it negatively affected, myself included, they don't know what needs fixing.

I'm not happy with 6.3.10 myself, but rather than telling the dealer there product sucks and storming off, I told them what didn't work and what I was using so that maybe in the next release it will.

[samgreco]

Originally Posted by pgitta

I do image the drive, but that introduces issues of its own if you have made changes to other apps (Girder, for instance) more recent than the image.

I image every month or so ( I'm not crazy, after all) and use it only in emergency situations.

I think the idea is to image JUST BEFORE the big upgrade. Then you can go back to the instant before things go weird.

In fact, the beauty of Sage is that all you really need to do is copy the complete directory.

I'm not sure what world you live in that you expect upgrades to always work. My experience is that a good 80% of the time they don't. Sage is actually better than most.

You'd be much better served EXPECTING things to go south when you start. Keeps the blood pressure down.

And picking on someone for their English skills is pretty low. Remember this IS an international group.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by pgitta

And then you try to say one word and a dozen Sage "groupies" jump out of the wordwork to denounce you like some crazed Hiltler youth that think Sage can do no wrong.

I think of all of your statements, this one most of all struck me as offensive. You started this thread with stupidity and some of us tried to respond with politeness and an offer of help. Again, just because you can't get your upgrade to work doesn't mean it was the softwares fault.

Like I said. 6.5 works great for me, so I'll stay where I am. I'm just saying Ishouldn't have had to go back to the dealer and ask for my trade-in back because the new car I got doesn't work.

Dude, go pull out your VCR and stick with it. It's obviously the product for you.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by pgitta

And then you try to say one word and a dozen Sage "groupies" jump out of the wordwork to denounce you like some crazed Hiltler youth that think Sage can do no wrong.

And the HTPC, different setups, etc. excuse is wearing thin with me. This program has been around for a while now, and it seems its no more bug free now than it was day one. Why can't it detect your hardware and adjust itself more?

These two paragraphs really torked me off.

First off, I love Sage. It's a great program. I will be the first to admit it isn't perfect, but its a lot better than most of the options out there (and I've tried just about all of them at some point). Sage can do wrong, but when they do, they get it fixed. I've bought a lot of software in the past that the companies never "got it right"....

Second, your paragraph about different setups is completely off base. Yes Sage has been around for along time. I've been using it since 2.0 (what was that 2003?), but ya know what? I am also on my 3rd or 4th different setup because I upgrade....The stuff we all used at 2.0 (or 1.x for those before me) is NOT what is being used today. I bet if Sage only supported the cards today that they supported in 2.0, it would be rock solid for everyone. Guess what though? Most of the cards supported in 2.0 no longer even exist (I can't buy Avermedia M150's anymore and that is what I used in my 2.0 setup).

Making blanket statements about a version because your setup isn't working is ludacris and short sighted. And yes you can point to several threads of people having problems....you can do this with ANY version that comes out. So you found 8 threads of people having problems.....what you don't see (and never would) are the threads where people aren't having problems because who comes to a forum just to state "6.3.10 works great"...

Oh and how much did that 6.3.5 to 6.3.10 upgrade cost you? Oh yeah, NOTHING, so stop complaining.

Edit: And don't think I am stating this just because I am some Sage Lover. If I felt like you wanted any help with your setup, and weren't Trolling you would get a much better response. If all you want to do is complain and make accusations then you are going to get these responses.

[rigor]

pgitta,
FWIW I agree 100% with the sentiment of your original post. When I ordered Sage I thought I was getting a license for software that was supposed to make my life a little easier and a tad more enjoyable. I didn't realize I was buying a new hobby. If I wanted software that required regular attention and tinkering I'd have bought one of those virtual pet keychains.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to research possible solutions to this week's mysterious Sage behavior....

[PGPfan]

The whole car analogy is wrong as well. Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, etc. have TOTAL control over all the parts that are used to make up their vehicles. Apple PC's are the same way. If you maintain TOTAL control of all hardware, it's reasonable to be able to predict the quality/stability of the resulting item.

HOWEVER, PC's are different - no 2 are alike - there cannot be this type of expectation coming from so many different variables. Without being a "groupie", I'm absolutely impressed that Sage can run so well on so many unrelated systems.

Perhaps realizing this reality could lend the patience with Sage that you seem to need.

-PGPfan

[Goodspike]

Sage has a great UI, IMHO, but it is quirky. The issue I was having with stuttering on my new setup is a good example. Actually, stuttering of different types seems to be an issue on a lot of setups.

I don't know what the solution is. I've often wondered if they should remove Java entirely from the equation, because it adds too many variables. You could say the same thing about allowing different video/audio codecs, but there that's actually something people appreciate, so the variation is probably worth it. But how many people actually care what version of Java is on their machine. It's variation with no benefit, only potential problems (e.g. the daylight savings time issue).

I'm assuming it was easier to create the program utilizing Java, but it's probably resulted in their doing a lot more work over the years trying to deal with problems.