Sage 6.3.10 is a disaster

[Brent]

Java also tends to make porting to other OS's much easier and makes the HD Extender and MVP much more possible....

Not saying there are zero problems with SageTV here, but do get ticked off when I see the posts done in the way of the OP.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Brent

Java also tends to make porting to other OS's much easier and makes the HD Extender and MVP much more possible....

Right--as to the OS issue--I have no idea on the rest.

I wonder what percentage of sales Sage has for the other OS's, and how that compares to the trials of Sage for Windows that never convert to a purchase because they can't get it to work? I'd guess the former is a much larger number.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Brent

Java also tends to make porting to other OS's much easier and makes the HD Extender and MVP much more possible....

Not saying there are zero problems with SageTV here, but do get ticked off when I see the posts done in the way of the OP.

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Right--as to the OS issue--I have no idea on the rest.

reason I say it made the HD Extender more possible is that they used the embedded linux version (the reason the linux version was made in the first place I think) in the HD100.

[rosemary]

I'm actually fairly amazed that Sage works as well as it does. With the constant changes in both hardware AND media formats, it's quite a moving target. Speaking as someone who works as a professional programmer, I don't envy them. After being frustrated by all the other media centers I tried, I considered building my own. But then I realized what a collosal task that would be. Even Microsoft's own Vista MCE disappoints, and you know a lot of time and effort has went into it.

If Sage only had to deal with the bugs and quirks in their UI, I think the volume of problem reports in these forums would be much, much smaller. Yes, their UI has it's own problems. But all software does. Unfortunately, that is the nature of the beast. It happens in most every piece of complicated software out there. Hell, after years of work and hundreds of millions of dollars, the US 2010 census plan is nixing computers and going back to pen and paper. How hard can it be to computerize filling out a form and storing it in a database? And yet here we are.

SageTV won't work for everyone. And people will have system-specific problems with certain versions. The great thing is that you always have the option to stick with the previous working version for the hardware that you have. For me and my hardware, 6.3.10 has been fairly awesome. I just logged on last night and pulled the the trigger on purchasing SageTV. It's such a relief that the hassle I've been fighting for the last year trying to get one media center or the other working are finally over.

[sam99]

Originally Posted by pgitta

And the HTPC, different setups, etc. excuse is wearing thin with me. This program has been around for a while now, and it seems its no more bug free now than it was day one. Why can't it detect your hardware and adjust itself more?

This comment leads me to believe that you do not enjoy tinkering with your computer as a hobby. I tell everyone I know that I love sagetv but if they are not computer hobbyists, then I don't try to convince them to buy it because I am do not have the time to support it for them right now. Sagetv is not just for people who know things about computer hardware, it is for those who enjoy tinkering with it. But wondering why sagetv can not detect your hardware and adjust itself accordingly? Are you joking? Do you not see how much trouble games have with every little difference in video card and mouse drivers? I do not think sagetv comes across as selling itself as a plug and play system. I did a little reading before purchasing and I knew exactly what I was getting into. But I will also say that since I retired my pc client for an hd100 that my tinkering time has almost disappeared. Oh, and the first rule of updates is that if it is not required and there is nothing listed in the fixes that concern you, then you don't upgrade. I live by that and I have few problems. And the age of the software does not matter. As long as new hardware is being released, not to mention new audio and video formats and revisions, then parts of the software are constantly being rewritten to account for these changes.

And why is it that everyone with a complaint is passionate about their point and yet anyone whose opinion is contrary to theirs, or just trying to be helpful like Brent and others in this thread, are immediately labeled some iteration of fanboi? I don't consider us fanbois, but rather users with realistic expectations and the ability to see just how much of sagetv does work out of the box and how hard they work through their free tech support to help those who need it. And free version updates not counting a single time when they have charged to update to a newer version. How many software programs out there that require constant updates and tweaks do you know of that offer free version upgrades for new content, as opposed to simply bug patches?

Buying a car is a completely false analogy. I imagine it closer to buying an airplane engine and you are responsible for building the plane around it. Why is it the engine manufacturers problem if the wing manufacturers made the wings out of paper? Shouldn't the engine sense the paper and adjust itself accordingly? Again, not a great example, but then there is no other real world example that you can truly compare to buying software and expecting it to just work with everyone combination of hardware and software out there.

And rigor, you said:
"I didn't realize I was buying a new hobby. If I wanted software that required regular attention and tinkering I'd have bought one of those virtual pet keychains. "

Again, sorry if you did not read these boards and realize that you were purchasing a DIY hobby, but that is exactly what this is. The more flexible a piece of software is, the more tinkering it is going to take to get it to work in your personalized environment. You want plug and play, look into MCE but expect to pay the price of less flexibility in what you can do in order to have it work out of the box.

[sam99]

Originally Posted by spoon

I'm actually fairly amazed that Sage works as well as it does. With the constant changes in both hardware AND media formats, it's quite a moving target. Speaking as someone who works as a professional programmer, I don't envy them.

Yep, that is what I was typing when you posted this, but reading yours reminded me of something. Sagetv could always take the track of what some programs and games do...put out a list of hardware and software it works with and not even try to support the rest (just kidding sagetv, don't even think it!)

I would think it is just a programmer thing where we understand more what is involved, but then I have seen self proclaimed programmers that act like the program they are complaining about is the only one to ever release with bugs.

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by sam99

This comment leads me to believe that you do not enjoy tinkering with your computer as a hobby. I tell everyone I know that I love sagetv but if they are not computer hobbyists, then I don't try to convince them to buy it because I am do not have the time to support it for them right now. Sagetv is not just for people who know things about computer hardware, it is for those who enjoy tinkering with it.

Sure, I enjoy tinkering, but after awhile it starts to become downright absurd.

But wondering why sagetv can not detect your hardware and adjust itself accordingly? Are you joking?

No, I'm not joking. I don't expect Sage to detect everything perfectly and work with no intervention, but I DO expect that if A) the program does not lock up in version 6.5 while using the Sage audio decoder, and B) DOES lock up using it in version 6.10, and C) the official support solution is to NOT use that particular decoder in version 6.10, then I expect the software to disable that decoder so users don't have to spend hours trying to solve the problem themselves.

And why is it that everyone with a complaint is passionate about their point and yet anyone whose opinion is contrary to theirs, or just trying to be helpful like Brent and others in this thread, are immediately labeled some iteration of fanboi?

You are projecting on me. I completely appreciate the posters who offered help and was never referring to them. I meant the attack dogs with their sarcastic condensention.

Originally Posted by sam99

How many software programs out there that require constant updates and tweaks do you know of that offer free version upgrades for new content, as opposed to simply bug patches?

Ok, I'll give you that one

And picking on someone for their English skills is pretty low. Remember this IS an international group

Last I checked, I may have ranted a little, and shortly afterward backed off and acknowledged Sage's efforts, said several times I liked the software when it worked, etc.

But I don't remember calling anyone names, or directly insulting them, so international or not, when I'm accused of "trolling" because I vent a few complaints, they can go blow.

Really, I'm suprised that you guys got so flustered at a few complaints. OK, maybe "POS" poor choice of acronyms, but jeez. It's not like I shot the Pope or anything.

Oops. Someone's bound to be offended by that.

[toricred]

Maybe you didn't shoot the Pope, but references to Hitler will get people upset and are probably not a good idea.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by toricred

Maybe you didn't shoot the Pope, but references to Hitler will get people upset and are probably not a good idea.

Actually, around here it's probably more references to Microsoft, Apple, DRM, etc. that would get people more upset.

[stuckless]

pgitta i'd be the first to agree that Sage is not perfect, and yes, there are some fairly passionate sage users out there, but no more than the passionate mythtv users or btv users

I've played with a few media centers (MCE, Media Portal, MythTV, XBMC, Freevo, and Sage). In my experience, XBMC has been the best and easist to use, but Sage is a close runner up. I've spent months tweaking MythTV. Took me a full week just to get my remote working.

I use Sage as a media center. I have satellite, so sage as a pvr is useless for me (not sage's fault). But I do have 2 dual tuner satellite pvrs (Dish/Bel), and yes, I still have to reboot them from time to time as well.

We live in a time where it's acceptable for companies to release software with lots of issues (I blame microsoft ). On the other hand, no onces wants to wait for every last possible bug to be fixed, or else the product would never launch. And yes, car companies and appliance manufactureres are all starting to hop on the software delivery model (ship it bad, and fix it later). I have a brand new fridge that needed to have a computer board replaced because of a "bug". Last year my new Van was brought in and had a board replaced because there was bug in how it calculated it's "values", which caused my engine light to remain on, when there wasn't an issue.

My advice to you is don't upgrade Sage (or anything for that matter), just for the sake of upgrading. I always expect issues when moving from one version of a product to another, and Sage (not to excuse them) is no different. "if it's not broken, then don't fix it"

Good luck.

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by toricred

Maybe you didn't shoot the Pope, but references to Hitler will get people upset and are probably not a good idea.

Continuing (and ending) off topic...

Yeah, well, it actually was a person who existed.

People need to understand any time Hitler, or Nazi, or whatever is mentioned, it doesn't mean the author endorses them. Sometimes they provide apt anologies, and that's why I used the HY.

Burying heads in the sand and pretending the scumbag(s) never lived doesn't solve anything either.

Every day people are offended by less and less it seems.

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by stuckless

pgitta i'd be the first to agree that Sage is not perfect, and yes, there are some fairly passionate sage users out there, but no more than the passionate mythtv users or btv users

I've played with a few media centers (MCE, Media Portal, MythTV, XBMC, Freevo, and Sage). In my experience, XBMC has been the best and easist to use, but Sage is a close runner up. I've spent months tweaking MythTV. Took me a full week just to get my remote working.

I use Sage as a media center. I have satellite, so sage as a pvr is useless for me (not sage's fault). But I do have 2 dual tuner satellite pvrs (Dish/Bel), and yes, I still have to reboot them from time to time as well.

We live in a time where it's acceptable for companies to release software with lots of issues (I blame microsoft ). On the other hand, no onces wants to wait for every last possible bug to be fixed, or else the product would never launch. And yes, car companies and appliance manufactureres are all starting to hop on the software delivery model (ship it bad, and fix it later). I have a brand new fridge that needed to have a computer board replaced because of a "bug". Last year my new Van was brought in and had a board replaced because there was bug in how it calculated it's "values", which caused my engine light to remain on, when there wasn't an issue.

My advice to you is don't upgrade Sage (or anything for that matter), just for the sake of upgrading. I always expect issues when moving from one version of a product to another, and Sage (not to excuse them) is no different. "if it's not broken, then don't fix it"

Good luck.

I think your advice is wise. And thanks for the lucid comments.

[GKusnick]

Here's a thought: if you're willing to image your system before an upgrade so you can roll back in case of disaster, then why not do that during the beta or RC phase? That way you stand a much better chance of getting your issues fixed quickly and avoiding unpleasant surprises in the final release.

The reality is that it's simply not possible for the Sage devs to regression-test every release on every possible configuration. If you want to be sure a new version is going to run stably on your system, your best bet is to participate in the beta.

[rosemary]

Originally Posted by pgitta

Yeah, well, it actually was a person who existed.
...
Every day people are offended by less and less it seems.

Wow, I can't believe you misinterpreted toricred's comment this much. They aren't saying people are upset because you talked about Hitler, they're upset because you compared them to the Hitler youth. If you can't see how that would offend just about anyone except for maybe actual Hitler youth, you should avoid social interaction.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by stuckless

My advice to you is don't upgrade Sage (or anything for that matter), just for the sake of upgrading. I always expect issues when moving from one version of a product to another, and Sage (not to excuse them) is no different. "if it's not broken, then don't fix it"

Good luck.

I'd agree. With my old HTPC I had a beta version of the HD Homerun software. It worked, so I never changed it.

The new stuff from them is much easier to install, but I can't say the functionality is any better once installed.

[pgitta]

Originally Posted by spoon

Wow, I can't believe you misinterpreted toricred's comment this much. They aren't saying people are upset because you talked about Hitler, they're upset because you compared them to the Hitler youth. If you can't see how that would offend just about anyone except for maybe actual Hitler youth, you should avoid social interaction.

You see, that's what I'm talking about. I did NOT compare them to Hitler Youth. I did not call them Hilter Youth.

I used an analogy that their immediate denouncification of me for my comments were not unlike the Hilter Youth denouncing neighbors and even close friends who dared to criticize [Sage] the Nazi party.

(And no, that is not comparing Sage to Nazis)

So you see, my comparison was not with them and HY, rather them and one particular HY behaviour
Big difference.

Elephants have legs. If I say "she has great legs", I am not comparing her to an elephant.

You either get it or you don't.

[rosemary]

Spin it however makes you feel justified. I think pretty much everyone here sees right through it.

[samgreco]

Originally Posted by pgitta

Easy now fella. I don't want you to have a hemmorage or anything. Now go find a good English tutor.

Originally Posted by pgitta

But I don't remember calling anyone names, or directly insulting them, so international or not, when I'm accused of "trolling" because I vent a few complaints, they can go blow.

I'm sorry I thought that was an insult.

[pgitta]

*sigh* whatever.