Netflix eliminating profiles

[GTwannabe]

Just received this email from Netflix tonight:

Dear Jonathan,

We wanted to let you know we will be eliminating Profiles, the feature that allowed you to set up separate DVD Queues under one account, effective September 1, 2008.

Each additional Profile Queue will be unavailable after September 1, 2008. Before then, we recommend you consolidate any of your Profile Queues to your main account Queue or print them out.

While it may be disappointing to see Profiles go away, this change will help us continue to improve the Netflix website for all our customers.

If you have any questions, please go to http://www.netflix.com/Help?p_faqid=3962 or call us anytime at 1 (888) 638-3549. We apologize for any inconvenience.

- The Netflix Team

Total BS! Profiles are the best feature in Netflix. They prevent the wife/gf's chick flicks from mucking up your movie suggestions. They also allow you to restrict a child's profile to a certain rating level.

I'm calling tomorrow to complain and threatening to cancel my subscription if they go through with this.

[lotusvball]

BTW, They don't care. They got rid of the releasing this week page,(even though you could still unofficially get to it), and made it very difficult to get new releases within the first weeks of them being released and they didn't bat an eye. I finally canceled, after being a member for years, and do you think they sent survey or asked me why I am canceling. They don't care. Just cancel. There are better ones out there that I will look into after the summer.

[Addict]

Wow, I don't use it...but I can totally see how this would be beneficial. I wonder what in the world the business reason for this is. Seems like an odd feature to eliminate.

[kevine]

I too am disappointed about this. However, I have to disagree on 1 point. There is no better option out there. Well, Blockbuster being the only other 1 I know of.

BB's big attraction is you can get another DVD immediately by bringing it to the store but it is more expensive than NF for that. With the price of gas these days, it does not seem that attractive. Also, it used to be the same price. I switched back to NF when they really started to screw with my queue. First, the "available now" did not always mean available now. So I'd have something sitting at the top of my queue and they would send me something 5 priorities down. Also, that 1 item can sit in my queue for weeks that way. Netflix will ship it even if it has to go from a far distribution center. It takes longer but, hey if you want it you want it. There logic for picking is much better.

Anyone else have an alternative service where you want watch now (unlimited, albeit limited selection)? I'd consider it.

[kevine]

1 last note: Netflix is fast. If you have a distribution center close by (mine is about an hour's drive), I get my DVDs with a 2 day turnaround (95% of the time). 1 day there, 1 day back. Blockbuster in the same distribution center city, sometimes 2 days but not always that much

Just because I can, I counted 188 rentals over the past 12 months. 8 months on 3 at time and 4 months on 1 at a time.

[Enormous]

I too am very disappointed in this decision. I have found these two petitions that we can sign to voice our displeasure:

http://www.petitiononline.com/netflix0/petition.html

http://www.savenetflixprofiles.com/

[stanger89]

I too am very disappointed, I'll hold out til September hoping that they change they're decision, but if they don't I'll likely cancel my subscription.

I originally signed up as a way to "test the waters" of HD media without having to buy any, but now that they're more "well established" I'm moving back to buying releases I want. That plus the fact that the local video stores are starting to cary Blu-ray, the reasons for having netflix are diminishing.

One of the biggest reasons I've still got it, is because I've got two profiles, one for movies (Blu-ray) and one for TV, through this I get to watch some shows I otherwise wouldn't have bothered with. However the removal of profiles would make managing such a setup incredibly unwieldy, requiring almost daily "queue masaging" to ensure I get discs in the "right' order.

Dropping netflix (and switching to the DishHD package) would save me more than enough per month to make up for buying mored discs outright.

I really hope they change their decision...

FWIW, I submited the following "suggestion", here http://www.netflix.com/Suggest:

I just received and email informing me that Profiles will be eliminated beginning in September. While Profiles were not a reason I signed up, they were a great surprise and turned out to be one of the best features Netflix offers.

Upon discovering Profiles, I upgraded my account and I have come to rely on Profiles to manage my disparate viewing habits between TV and movies. It has become an essential tool to managing my Netflix subscription.

The elimination of Profiles would make managing my queue much more difficult and would greatly reduce the value of the Netflix service.

Based on this information I plan to cancel my subscription when Profiles are eliminated. Please reconsider the decision to eliminate Profiles as they are a very useful feature, and one that sets Netflix apart from the competition.

[Humanzee]

I signed one of those petitions earlier in the day. And my comments weren't as pleasantly worded as Stanger's. I can not think of a plausible explanation for this other than making their business process easier. As an e-commerce leader I'd think that a tech challenge would the last thing that should get in the way of customer service. It feels like a corporate move to pad the bottom line in some way that I can't comprehend. They make money from me because I don't have a quick turn around time, not because I have three queue's. They get my subscription fee and the movies sit around here for weeks sometimes.

I have a queue for me, and for her, and for new releases only. Every time I opened the mailbox to see a red envelope addressed to just me, I though "This is really neat" Each of us have something we want. Soon we'll have to shuffle the deck manually or just loose all those items and try to remember them later. Soon we'll end up with three of her movies sitting on the TV stand and nothing to watch but the membership fee's rolling by. As a customer service move this is just unfathomable.

The only other thing to do is to fully utilize the service and get as much "viewing" out of it as possible. The more we watch the more postage they have to pay and the less profitable they will become.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

I can not think of a plausible explanation for this other than making their business process easier.

I can.

One 4-disc account with two profiles: $24/month
Two 2-disc accounts without profiles: $28/month

One 3-disc account with three profiles: $17/month
Three 1-disc accounts without profiles: $27/month

The low-end accounts cost more per disc than the high-end accounts. So by pushing customers toward separate accounts for different family members, they expect to collect more revenue per disc than they currently do on combined accounts with multiple profiles.

My plan is to foil this expectation by dropping back a grade, from 4-at-a-time to 3-at-a-time. The 3-disc account is the best deal anyway in terms of cost per disc.

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I can.

Oh sure, use logic on me. My point being that they say they are doing it to improve the website.

Originally Posted by netflix

While it may be disappointing to see Profiles go away, this change will help us continue to improve the Netflix website for all our customers.

Removing a feature is not an improvement. Nor can I understand how it makes room for improvements. They could also have offered to merge the queue's but didn't, less work for them. Less movies in queue means less discs they have to ship. Letting users merge them manually is bound to remove some also. Though I don't know of anyone with 0 in their queue.

If this plan is strictly to make a little more money then they are lieing about in their explanation. They could have said something like. "resent postal rate increases and USPS size requirements have forced us to value engineer our business model. Instead of directly raising rates, we've projected that we can save some money by removing the multiple queue feature from individual accounts. In order to keep providing excelent services.... blah blah" That could be plausible.

It all seems very short sighted. Do they really expect everyone to drop their 3 disc at a time plan and open 3 single disc plans? Maybe a few will but most won't want the added complexity of maintaining three accounts just for this benefit. As you've seen some here didn't even use the profile system. I don't think that the profile system is used by enough people for that to be a reasonable motivation for this change.

Of course many a company do many a stupid thing.

[kevine]

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with all of the Netflix slapping going on here.

First, I do not want to see the profiles going away either and I signed the petitions too. However, you should take the bad with the good that this service has provided existing customers just over the last year.

1. They have lowered their prices over the last year. Yes, it is only a dollar/month on a 3-DVD unlimited subscription but it's still a dollar.
2. They have improved their queue management by adding dragging to reorder the queue.
3. They have gone from none, to limited and to unlimited "Watch It Now" playback hours.

I also believe there could be a very good reason Netflix is removing profiles. I would not be surprised at all to discover a new feature is release (without publicity) at the same time or shortly after the removal of profiles. It might be such a good feature that it is not cost effective to have with multiple profiles/account. And not publicized because of it's competition with BB.

No, I do not work for Netflix. Just a satisfied customer.

Originally Posted by Humanzee

The only other thing to do is to fully utilize the service and get as much "viewing" out of it as possible. The more we watch the more postage they have to pay and the less profitable they will become.

I agree. I completely rake Netflix over the coals and get my money's worth. My DVDs go out the day after I get them. Maybe that is why I am not too upset about loosing this service because my daughter has a queue and also a DVD that has been sitting in her room for weeks.

[Humanzee]

I don't expect to change my service because I'm lazy and it's still a good deal, that being said, after Sept 1 I won't have the same level of service I am accustomed to. I just don't buy their statement about the change being to provide a better web site. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm not trying to slap netflix I just feel really disappointed in the direction things are going. Witness the planned rate hike for Blu-ray rentals literally days after I bought a BD-Rom drive. http://gizmodo.com/382375/netflix-to...lu+ray-renters

Now this with the profiles. I used to have a warm fuzzy in my heart for netflix with a tinge of "why didn't I think up this business model 15 years ago". Now that's all being replaced with irk and suspicion just like with the cable company, different Teleco's and ISP's I've used over the years. Nickels and Dimes at first. When / if a real competitor emerges we'll see if they backtrack. Netflix had the promise of being different, they didn't bring baggage with them, are not Block Buster who you sort of expect to screw you based on your own history of late fee's, rewind fee's or the giving you the wrong tape in the box. And faced with the lessor of two evils what do you do?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by kevine

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with all of the Netflix slapping going on here.

First, I do not want to see the profiles going away either and I signed the petitions too. However, you should take the bad with the good that this service has provided existing customers just over the last year.

1. They have lowered their prices over the last year. Yes, it is only a dollar/month on a 3-DVD unlimited subscription but it's still a dollar.

If profiles are costing them, I'd rather see them not drop prices and retain profiles, or provide the option to "enable" profiles for say $1/month or something. Maybe that is the biggest irk of all, that the whole "to make the website (service) better" line us utter BS. I don't see how Profiles can have a negative affect on those who don't use them (user experience wise), while they're a great-to-essential tool for those who do.

If you're trying to cut costs to keep prices down by removing a feature used by only a small portion of your community, say so.

2. They have improved their queue management by adding dragging to reorder the queue.

They'll have to improve it a lot more than that to make up for elimination of profiles.

3. They have gone from none, to limited and to unlimited "Watch It Now" playback hours.

I think I've used 5 minutes of Watch Now. Profiles are of orders magnitude more value to me than Watch Now.

I also believe there could be a very good reason Netflix is removing profiles. I would not be surprised at all to discover a new feature is release (without publicity) at the same time or shortly after the removal of profiles.

I hope they "announce" it (either press release or via email or something) before or on September 1.

It might be such a good feature that it is not cost effective to have with multiple profiles/account. And not publicized because of it's competition with BB.

Perhaps, but if that were the case, there would be much better ways to inform us that Profiles are going away.

No, I do not work for Netflix. Just a satisfied customer.

I have been too (with the exception of the horrible HD DVD service shortly before HD DVD died). I'd like to continue to be one as well. I don't have an ax to grind against Netflix, but as I outlined in my email to Netflix, I upgraded my account when I discovered profiles, and they've become an essential tool.

I watch 1-2 movies per week, I originally signed up for the 2-at-a-time plan to get HD movies because the local stores didn't rent them. When I discovered Profiles, and that I could upgrade my account and watch shows on an irregular schedule and maintain my 2 movies/week setup I upgraded immediately. I've greatly enjoyed being able to get TV shows I was unwilling to purchase. But that's just a side, that's the icing on the Netflix cake.

Things have changed since then, the local rental shops have started renting Blu-ray, I've shifted back towards buying movies, so much of the "cake" of Netflix has eroded, and it's the icing keeping me there. If they take away the icing, there will be little incentive for me to keep paying for the service. Especially when I'll have to babysit my queue to maintain the level of service I've come to expect.

[bialio]

Especially when I'll have to babysit my queue to maintain the level of service I've come to expect.

I wonder if "bot" could do that for you - updating queue's is clearly possible via some kind of API that netflix has exposed. Maybe if a program kept everything out of your queue (queued it locally) and only added items so that it had a certain number at a time....

Probably possible, but probably way too much work.
btl.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Perhaps, but if that were the case, there would be much better ways to inform us that Profiles are going away.

This is the crux of it. If it's really true that profiles are incompatible with some great new features they have planned, they have nothing to lose by saying so straight out. ("Hey, we've got some cool new features in the works, but unfortunately there's no way to make them work with profiles, so with great reluctance we've decided that profiles have to go. We hope you'll agree that the new features are worth it.")

Instead, they chose to give some wishy-washy and evasive non-explanation that sounds like marketing BS, regardless of how much truth there may be to it. They're not exactly bending over backwards to reassure us that the removal of profiles is regrettable but unavoidable. They're just telling us this is how it's going to be, and they don't really care whether we believe their lame cover story or not. All of which makes me suspect that the real reason is something else that we'd like even less.

[kevine]

The whole idea of profiles was seperate logins. Which in my opinion was a PITA. Every time I came back to my account I had to re-login and Netflix has acknowledged this. The only reason I wanted it was for my children and they never used it, until recently. They always asked me to get it for them.

What if Netflix were to come up with "household categories" and each category had a bucket the same as profiles does now? It would be an opt-in feature like profiles but there would be different views of you queue. All, Queue 1, Queue 2, etc. all under the same login. Bucket priorites. This in my opinion would be better than profiles.

If Netflix does not come up with it, maybe our Netflix plug-in creator can handle the task locally a previously mentioned right from within Sage. If not, maybe someone here can:
Hacking Netflix

From HotHardware.com
We heard back from Steve Swasey, Vice President, Corporate Communications for Netflix. Swasey explained that a "very, very, very small minority" of Netflix users actually use the Profiles feature. When we commented that he used the word "very" three times, he joked that a few more "very's" might actually be applicable.

Netflix product manager:
"Please know that the motivation is solely driven by keeping our service as simple and as easy to use as possible. Too many members found the feature difficult to understand and cumbersome, having to consistently log in and out of the website.

Continuing to maintain the profiles feature for the passionate few who use it (including myself) distracts us from the mission of presenting to all our members the easiest way to find the best titles for them from the 100k plus on DVD and the 10k plus available instantly.

We will do our best to find better ways for families to share accounts than the existing profiles feature and will continue to invest in improving the website experience in many different ways."

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by kevine

The whole idea of profiles was seperate logins. Which in my opinion was a PITA. Every time I came back to my account I had to re-login and Netflix has acknowledged this. The only reason I wanted it was for my children and they never used it, until recently. They always asked me to get it for them.

What if Netflix were to come up with "household categories" and each category had a bucket the same as profiles does now? It would be an opt-in feature like profiles but there would be different views of you queue. All, Queue 1, Queue 2, etc. all under the same login. Bucket priorites. This in my opinion would be better than profiles.

If they replace Profiles with multiple Queues, that would be fine/great. But if that's the case, why do they not say "hey, on Sept 1, we're changing how profiles work, they will be replaced with multiple queues..." or something.

I mean there's all kinds of reasons for getting rid of profiles that would not result in the loss of functionality. The problem is the way they informed everyone, when I read that I see very little reason to assume they're bringing something better online. They're email left almost no room for interpretation on what's happening to profiles, they're going away, and there's nothing in the email to indicate some sort of replacement/alternative.

If they have a plan, but are unable/unwilling to announce it already, why tell us anything about Profiles? Do we need 2 months warning that a feature is going to be changed/upgraded?

If Netflix does not come up with it, maybe our Netflix plug-in creator can handle the task locally a previously mentioned right from within Sage. If not, maybe someone here can:
Hacking Netflix

Maybe...

From HotHardware.com
We heard back from Steve Swasey, Vice President, Corporate Communications for Netflix. Swasey explained that a "very, very, very small minority" of Netflix users actually use the Profiles feature. When we commented that he used the word "very" three times, he joked that a few more "very's" might actually be applicable.

So we're a small group. Why does the email not say that then, "eliminated due to lack of use...".

There must be something else going on here, I hope it's something good, but I fear it's nothing more than the email said, ie profiles are gone on 9/1.

Netflix product manager:
"Please know that the motivation is solely driven by keeping our service as simple and as easy to use as possible. Too many members found the feature difficult to understand and cumbersome, having to consistently log in and out of the website.

How is the feature cumbersome for those who don't use it?

Continuing to maintain the profiles feature for the passionate few who use it (including myself) distracts us from the mission of presenting to all our members the easiest way to find the best titles for them from the 100k plus on DVD and the 10k plus available instantly.

Again, I totally don't understand this, how can having a feature (rather buried in options) detract from usability of those who don't use the feature?

We will do our best to find better ways for families to share accounts than the existing profiles feature and will continue to invest in improving the website experience in many different ways."

I really hope this means they'll be adding a multi-queue function. I just fear not.

[kevine]

Originally Posted by stanger89

How is the feature cumbersome for those who don't use it?

Good point.

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by bialio

I wonder if "bot" could do that for you - updating queue's is clearly possible via some kind of API that netflix has exposed. Maybe if a program kept everything out of your queue (queued it locally) and only added items so that it had a certain number at a time....

Probably possible, but probably way too much work.
btl.

oh no, multiple profiles is pointless, netflix said so, If you work around this its stealing intellectual property that doesn't work and makes the web site less effective.

A user community of media enthusiasts shouldn't have recreate their own tools to replace capability that was taken away, but we will if necessary.

This is 100% about money in some way even if we can't figure it out on the surface. Internet VOIP to land lines calls used to be free, I did it all the time back in 1999. Till the big companies figured out how to market and charge us for it. They even wanted us to pay for internet by the bit or byte. Can you imagine if you had to pay long distance to download a driver from Taiwan or by the byte to download a service pack from MS? They also don't want net neutrality so that they can control what we see and what we can buy. The more you know the more disillusioned you become.

In today's mega cooperate world competition is about building complacence and expectations among the customer base so that they assume they are getting a good deal. Competition drives prices down for a while then once you're signed up for the special deal and the market is established the belts start to tighten until just before the breaking point. Everything is bound to go up in price, or change in service, and when there is little alternative you get the shaft or the company falls apart.

Netflix will do what ever it can to bolster its profitability. I think this move is to push their "watch it now" feature. Netflix has about 8.2 million subscribers, lets say that they send out one movie to each user at $.42 each way. Now they are probably getting a deal from USPS but still that's 6.9 million dollars in retail postage for 1 movie per client. How many do you get per year? Studio royalties and bandwidth costs are not cheap but they've got to be less than postage. If Netflix can get each subscriber to stream one movie a month or even a year vs getting it in the mail. Thats huge money for them. They've sold out of the Roku box so that only has to prove the potential of streaming for them. They are going to do what ever they can to reduce the frequency of mailing a physical disc. How much has Apple spent on mailing your iTunes? Its just business, whether we like it or not.

FWIW, The chairman and CEO of Netflix has been exercising stock options this year. Netting him about $148,825.00 in their sale just so far this month. Blockbusters CEO has been exercising options as well be he has been keeping his holdings in BB. Maybe Reed Hastings (Netflix) has a new wife or car to pay for, but maybe it illustrates the future expectations of these two companies. But that's just speculation.

[Humanzee]

Found this:

Originally Posted by HackingNetflix.com

Netflix spokesperson Steve Swasey said that the decision to eliminate Profiles is a "final decision." Swasey also had the following to say:

Originally Posted by Steve Swasey

Netflix is a dynamic company that continues to evolve and grow while consistently giving members to best online movie rental experience. Think of where we were when I joined a little more than three years ago. Then, we had 2.6 million members and 35,000 titles on DVD. Today, 8.2 million members, more than 100,000 titles on DVD and more than 10,000 choices of movies and TV episodes to watch instantly on the PC and the TV.
With such dramatic growth and site and service improvements comes the occasional adjustment.
While discontinuing the Profiles feature is not desirable for the passionate folks who use it, the decision will ultimately benefit all Netflix members. By discontinuing the feature, we will be able to put more focus and resources site and service improvements that benefit everyone, consistent to how we have grown the service over the years.