Aspect Ratio on HD-100, using HD-PVR Recordings, on 4x3 HD TV

[Addict]

Hi folks,

Got my HD-PVR up and running this week (yay) and am having some Aspect Ratio issues.

First, let me say that I've read this FAQ (and other posts):
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...712#post252712
...and have not found an AR that works for me.

I currently have the following AR's in place, taken from default settings and various posts on these forums:
Source
Fill
ZoomA
ZoomB
Letterbox
Panoramic
4x3Stretch
Taller

Now, on my widescreen monitor in the other room, everything works fine.

However, on my 4x3 HD tube TV...I can't get SD content to widen (picture is too skinny) and none of the settings seem to be working.

How can I go about fixing this? As much as I'm enjoying my HD-PVR, a good majority of content recorded is SD and this is driving me a bit nuts.

Thanks for any help!

[BobPhoenix]

You might try something like what I suggested here.

[Addict]

Thanks for the link. I've tried all kinds of settings and I simply can't get the image to stretch any width-wise. Granted, I'm really new to the AR settings and they're confusing as hell...but I've tried things like:

ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,3496,3496|cutstrip\=2048,0|blackstrip\=0,0|nonlinearmode\=0,0;
ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,2048,2048|cutstrip\=2048,0|blackstrip\=0,0|nonlinearmode\=0,0;
ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,2048,2048,FrontEdgeToCenter,FrontEdgeToCenter,Fixed,Relative,Fixed,Relative|cutstrip\=2048,0|blackstrip\=0,0|nonlinearmode\=0,0;
ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,3496,3496|nonlinearmode\=0,0;
ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,2048,2048|nonlinearmode\=0,0;

Then I went and tried about 700 different "Fixed" combinations of values, none of which could I get to simply stretch the video out. I got it to move around some, and clip incorrectly, but nothing that did what I need it to.

Grr, argh. This is very unintuitive and quite annoying. Thanks for the help thus far...any other ideas?

[bialio]

Try nonlinearmode=0,1 and then mess with all the other settings (you are using the default STV with the latest beta right - so you can see the changes as they happen??????)

btl.

[bialio]

This is one that I use :

Anamorphic|blackstrip\=0,0
|cutstrip\=0,0
|nonlinearmode\=0,1
|scalingmode\=LetterBox
|source\=2048,2048,4096,3196,
FrontEdgeToCenter,FrontEdgeToCenter,
Relative,Relative,Relative,Relative;

If you change the source line to 2048,2048,3000,4096 that might work - should start expanding in the X axis instead of the Y (which is what the above "Anamorphic" setting does....) Of course 3000 is a guess, you'll have to play with it some.

btl.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Addict

Thanks for the link. I've tried all kinds of settings and I simply can't get the image to stretch any width-wise. Granted, I'm really new to the AR settings and they're confusing as hell...but I've tried things like:

ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,3496,3496|cutstrip\=2048,0|blackstrip\=0,0|nonlinearmode\=0,0;
ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,2048,2048|cutstrip\=2048,0|blackstrip\=0,0|nonlinearmode\=0,0;
ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,2048,2048,FrontEdgeToCenter,FrontEdgeToCenter,Fixed,Relative,Fixed,Relative|cutstrip\=2048,0|blackstrip\=0,0|nonlinearmode\=0,0;
ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,3496,3496|nonlinearmode\=0,0;
ALStretch|source\=2048,2048,2048,2048|nonlinearmode\=0,0;

Then I went and tried about 700 different "Fixed" combinations of values, none of which could I get to simply stretch the video out. I got it to move around some, and clip incorrectly, but nothing that did what I need it to.

Grr, argh. This is very unintuitive and quite annoying. Thanks for the help thus far...any other ideas?

How do you have your STB output the signal is it always 1080i or does it output the native signal? I haven't been able to get the HD-PVR recordings on a 480p signal to work yet but if I use 1080i out all the time (My STB does 480p and 1080i at the same time but only those two) I can increase the display to fill the screen with the setting in the post I referenced.

Originally Posted by bialio

This is one that I use :

Anamorphic|blackstrip\=0,0
|cutstrip\=0,0
|nonlinearmode\=0,1
|scalingmode\=LetterBox
|source\=2048,2048,4096,3196,
FrontEdgeToCenter,FrontEdgeToCenter,
Relative,Relative,Relative,Relative;

If you change the source line to 2048,2048,3000,4096 that might work - should start expanding in the X axis instead of the Y (which is what the above "Anamorphic" setting does....) Of course 3000 is a guess, you'll have to play with it some.

btl.

I found with the HD-PVR SD recordings you had to reduce both the X and Y's it does NOTHING if you only reduce one axis. Why I suggested 2048,2048,3496,3496. It doesn't need to be the same value (3496) but until I reduced both I got NO change at all. I would definately use the 6.4.4 beta with the latest beta firmware however. It makes it much easier to do since you can see it on screen. It still isn't intuitive but if it doesn't work you can restore to either the starting values or the default values. What I really wish was that they had the same system as the GUI AR. That was easy to follow. Just add the "Non-linear" and black strip options to that style arrangement. Or maybe have both the current and this style.

[bcjenkins]

I just ordered an HD Extender for the SD TV in the family room and will be doing this next week when I receive it. If all I am outputting is 720p, is there a setup I should use, and does the default stick? I only use this tuner to record HD channels as I didn't want something SD to take precedence over HD.

TIA

B

[bialio]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

How do you have your STB output the signal is it always 1080i or does it output the native signal?

I found with the HD-PVR SD recordings you had to reduce both the X and Y's it does NOTHING if you only reduce one axis. Why I suggested 2048,2048,3496,3496.

I guess it depends on how he's recording SD - it's its HD pillar boxed or true SD surely makes a difference for these obscure AR settings!

I think the X and Y axis issue might be circumvented if you set nonlinear=0,1 - it surely is doing that on my HD100's. I only touch the Y axis and it adjusts very nicely....

btl.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by bialio

I think the X and Y axis issue might be circumvented if you set nonlinear=0,1 - it surely is doing that on my HD100's. I only touch the Y axis and it adjusts very nicely....

btl.

I tried that and it wasn't working for me but I may have had other things set that made it not work. Also I wasn't trying to do a nonliner stretch it to fill the screen. I wanted to keep the original AR since it fit a 16x9 display approximately anyway (Letterboxed SD). But if the stretch works and doesn't look bad on a 16x9 letterboxed SD on the HD-PVR I will use it. Have to experiment some more this weekend with it if I get some recording windows. Been using my nVidia Dual TV tuners for SD because of this since THEY stretch just fine on the HD-100.

[Addict]

Ok, I've got a solution! This is the one I used (my values):

SDon4x3HDTube|blackstrip\=0,0|cutstrip\=0,0|nonlinearmode\=0,1|scalingmode\=LetterBox|source\=2048,2048,3500,4096,FrontEdgeToCenter,FrontEdgeToCenter,Relative,Relative,Relative,Relative;

Thanks Bailio for the start! I just modified the one setting to 3500 and it's just about the right fit for my TV.

Other questions / answers

* I am running Beta 6.4.3 (not Beta 6.4.4). In 6.4.4, is there an OSD section for AR? Or, does the system just catch changes to the config file on-the-fly?

* My cable box outputs 480i and 1080i, depending on the channel. I have not fixed it to send all 1080i.

* Is there a way to set a default AR? Obviously, this doesn't work for HD content...and I have a lot of both, but I think more SD than HD now. Sucks that it doesn't remember the last AR chosen when watching a different show. Would actually be really nice if you could set an AR to 480i recordings, and another AR to 1080i recordings (so it would adjust automatically).

Thanks guys!

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Addict

Ok, I've got a solution! This is the one I used (my values):

SDon4x3HDTube|blackstrip\=0,0|cutstrip\=0,0|nonlinearmode\=0,1|scalingmode\=LetterBox|source\=2048,2048,3500,4096,FrontEdgeToCenter,FrontEdgeToCenter,Relative,Relative,Relative,Relative;

Thanks Bailio for the start! I just modified the one setting to 3500 and it's just about the right fit for my TV.

Great I'll have to try it out this weekend.

Other questions / answers

* I am running Beta 6.4.3 (not Beta 6.4.4). In 6.4.4, is there an OSD section for AR? Or, does the system just catch changes to the config file on-the-fly?

In 6.4.4 when playing back a video just bring up options. Go to Aspect Ratios and you will see a list of them with right arrows displayed. Press Right and a new menu will be displayed that you can pick the field that you want to set - like the source mode, non linear, etc. The as you make adjustments to the settings it will adjust your screen display so that you can see the results. So makes it much faster. (Note: this is from memory so the procedure may be slightly different than I remember)

* My cable box outputs 480i and 1080i, depending on the channel. I have not fixed it to send all 1080i.

I suspected as much. Mine has similar specs. I have it set to 480p for SD however. I wasn't able to figure out a setting last weekend that worked in my recording window.

* Is there a way to set a default AR? Obviously, this doesn't work for HD content...and I have a lot of both, but I think more SD than HD now. Sucks that it doesn't remember the last AR chosen when watching a different show. Would actually be really nice if you could set an AR to 480i recordings, and another AR to 1080i recordings (so it would adjust automatically).

Thanks guys!

I don't know about this. I know you can set the VideoOut default mode but I don't remember about the AR. If it exists it will probably be a property entry.

BobP.

[bialio]

You're best bet is the auto aspect ratio switcher plugin - there's one that works in the default STV, and then one that works in SageMC. The SageMC one is buried somewhere in one of the SageMC threads - not in the download section!

It gives you the most control over aspect ratios. However, the HD100 also has an option to set a global default aspect ratio. It has never really worked for me though - more often than not if I try to let that property manage the default I end up with Source. YMMV. In the 6.4.4 beta you can select this property in the same popup screen that BobP. is talking about above.

btl.

[Addict]

Thanks again for all the help, guys! I'll try and poke around a bit for the Auto AR Plugin for SageMC.