Universal remotes

[Skirge01]

Can someone answer a few URC questions for me? The URC MX-810/880/890s all say they are IR and RF. However, what I'm not clear on is whether I NEED to purchase the MRF-260 (~$100) or an MRF-350 plus an RFX-250 ($200+$100=$300) in order to utilize the RF capability. This doesn't even count purchasing the remote itself. Also, it would seem that the MRF-350 can only send IR commands to TWO components. So, for ~$150, I can only control 2 pieces of equipment?

Am I totally off-base here or are these things just that expensive to implement?

[alfi33]

Originally Posted by garyellis

I bought (3) URC 8910's..IMHO, they are wonderful and very cheap..about $25... They are JP1 programmable and work great with Sage and the HD-100.

Gary Ellis

Gary, Do you have to program the URC 8910 using JP1 to get it to work well or can you just teach it using a Hauppauge 45 button remote or Windows Media Center Remote?

[garyellis]

I did it about a year ago, so I don't remember all the details, but I did have to program it... and its because of the RC5 protocol..(I think that's what its called) I struggled at first, but once I figured it out, it became very easy.

You download some free software and then you find somebody that has already created a template for the Hauppauge 45 button remote. Then basically you import that onto your remote. The software was easy to find and download. The template was easy to find and it worked very slick. You do have to buy a "connector" that attaches your remote to your USB port on the PC.

You will become very familar with the JP1 website for all the tools.

So, I'll warn you that you will need to "play around with the remote" some to figure out the programming, but I found it fun and for only $25, I assumed I could throw it away if I couldn't figure it out.

http://controlremote.sourceforge.net/rmhelp/rmhelp.html JP1 website

Also, the URC 9910 is about $38 and it works almost exactly the same as the URC 8810 except it also sends an RF signal. I thought I might use the RF function, but never have...But, just in case you need it..

If you buy it and need some help, just let me know and I will try to remember more.

Gary Ellis

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Can someone answer a few URC questions for me? The URC MX-810/880/890s all say they are IR and RF. However, what I'm not clear on is whether I NEED to purchase the MRF-260 (~$100) or an MRF-350 plus an RFX-250 ($200+$100=$300) in order to utilize the RF capability.

Well, yes, because otherwise there's nothing to listen to the RF transmitted by the remote. The RF feature on these remotes (and the Harmony 980/1000) is basically so you can install an IR blaster where it's convenient and reaches all your components, and then there's the RF link between the remote and the module so you don't need to worry about where you're pointing the remote.

Of course that does lead me to a question, if you're using the RF base station, can you disable the IR out of the remote itself, so as not to interfere with the IR from the base station?

This doesn't even count purchasing the remote itself. Also, it would seem that the MRF-350 can only send IR commands to TWO components. So, for ~$150, I can only control 2 pieces of equipment?

You should be able to control more than two devices with the base stations, I think they've got built in emitters in addition to the external ports, but I'm not sure.

Am I totally off-base here or are these things just that expensive to implement?

They're definitely not cheap, and they're really not for "average" setups, they're designed for the custom installer market where a) the remote is a small portion of the overall cost of the project, b) people are paying for a complete system, not just a remote, and most importantly c) they need to be absolutely bulletproof in their operation, no fidling with aiming the remote right, missed commands, etc.

But I really do hear you on the cost thing, actually what I think I really want is not a URC setup, but an RTI setup:


From everything I've read, they're even better than URC, but they're even more exclusive and seem to keep much tigher control over their distribution channel (especially tricky to get the programming software).

The key thing to remember when you start going into the URC Complete Control line and RTI is you've now left the area of remote controls and what you're really looking at are Home (Theater) Automation Systems. You're in Crestron territory with these.

But yes, I'm still managing with with my 7 individual remotes because I've never found a "universal remote" to be somethign I've liked, and haven't been ready to pony up the cash for my URC (or similar) automation system, and besides, plus, it's just me using it, so it's not like I have to listen to someone complain about all the remotes

Originally Posted by Wayneb

I bought my mom a Harmony 880 when it first came out, it feels cheap to me compared to my URC remotes and the buttons are tiny like they were sized for a child. I think the new Harmony one has larger buttons.

That's really what I remember best about mine. If the remote would have felt good, I probably would have managed with the software.

[Skirge01]

Thanks everyone. That helped out quite a bit. I still don't like the fact that the MRF-350 also requires the RFX-250 to be fully operational, but, as has been said, this isn't a Target remote.

[onlydarksets]

If anyone is interested in the Harmony 550, Buy.com has it for $53 shipped AR:
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...70&dcaid=17070

[toby]

What about the URC MX-6000 Now that is a remote control. Reminds me of crestron remote.

http://www.universalremote.com/produ....php?model=156

[stanger89]

I had a Sony touchscreen remote, and I really didn't like it for day-to-day use. There's no way you can drive such a remote by feel. I just like the feel of a remote with hard buttons for the commonly used features (navigation, numbers, transport controls, etc). Which I why I really like the look of the MX900/MX950/MX980.

[stanger89]

So, hopefully Monday, I'll be getting my MX-880 and MRF-350. I'm really looking forward to gettng to work with it. The store had an 810, which is physically almost identical to the 880 and I liked the feel of it.

Anybody know if URC has codes for the Sage device(s) in their database?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Anybody know if URC has codes for the Sage device(s) in their database?

Yes, they do. In addition to now being built into their database, there are older discussions from before it was built-in:

URC MX-700 remote layout for the SageTV HD extender

There are links to an MX-850 discussion in that thread, in case that is closer to the remote you have.

- Andy

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by stanger89

So, hopefully Monday, I'll be getting my MX-880 and MRF-350. I'm really looking forward to gettng to work with it. The store had an 810, which is physically almost identical to the 880 and I liked the feel of it.

Anybody know if URC has codes for the Sage device(s) in their database?

Please keep us posted. I'll be in the market for a new RF remote soon. My kids got hold of my Harmony 890 and dropped it. The USB connector broke right off so I can't program it anymore.

At least it's an excuse to buy a new toy!

Aloha,
Mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Yes, they do. In addition to now being built into their database, there are older discussions from before it was built-in:

URC MX-700 remote layout for the SageTV HD extender

There are links to an MX-850 discussion in that thread, in case that is closer to the remote you have.

- Andy

Yeah, I figured/thought I'd see that. But the 880 is rather a different beast than the 700/850

[stanger89]

Well, it's finally here... Picked up my URC MX-880+MRF-350, and the short story, I like this soooo much better than the last Harmony I tried it's not even funny. I checked out a Harmony 890 (I think) at a shop a few weeks ago, and there's just no comparison in terms of feel. The URC's buttons are actually usable by feel, they've got a rather substantial feel to them, where as the Harmony's buttons seemed "cheap and plasticy" by comparison.

Some neat features, it's got a motion sensor that automatically lights the LCD screen and button backlight when you pick it up, plus a button on the side to turn them back on. It's got a clock , which will be handy when I move my equipment and want to know the time outside Sage. Unlike most universals I remember the button response time is great, maybe not quite as good as the native remotes, but I think that can be tweaked (we'll see if I end up being bothered by it).

As far as IR goes, it's powerful enough to bounce IR off my screen to control the projector behind me, something the projector's remote couldn't do.

Of course most all that "feel" stuff you'd expect from a remote that's about 2x the price of a Harmony. So well, you get what you pay for there.

Then there's the programming, and for me, once you get used to the nomenclature, it's far more intuitive that that of a Harmony, and it's far from hard. Basically you go through, enter your Devices, name them pick the image for them, map them to a device in the database. That's roughly the same as (my recollection of) a Harmony. The differences start with the macros.

A Harmony will guide you through a wizard, which device controls volume (does it need punchthrough), what's connected to what and what input, and then it automatically generates macros and you're done. Problem crops up if they don't work right or you want something more, it can be a pain to go change them.

The URC does you no such favors. You have to manually configure punchthrough, which is done through a simple dialog selecting what you want punched to which devices. Same for power on macros, and everything else. If you're someone like me who knows how all your equipment interacts, and how you want things to happen, then this is much easier overall.

I went through each device and created power on, and power off macros for each. They're relatively simple, they're based on a unique variable indicating whether the device is on or off (0, 1), and perform different steps. For example I have a SageTV On variable, the SageTV Power On macro then looks at that variable, in pseudocode:

if SageTV On
   Home
   Goto Please Wait Page
   Wait 3 sec
   Set SageTV On to Yes (1)
   Goto previous page (yup, it can go back to the previous page :cool: )
else
   do nothing, it's already on

I've got a similar macro for each device, and also for Power Off (sends power off, sets the variable). This way you can blindly "power on" any device and you can trust that it will be on and ready for input when the command completes. My Projector and SSP have the same sort of thing but longer delays to account for their startup times.

Then with all my real devices set up, I created a few "virtual" devices, TV, Blu-ray, Netflix, Shutdown. This is the nomenclature thing I mentioned earlier. There isn't a dedicated "activity" section/category to program, there are just "devices" which in actuality are just sets of hard/soft button configurations.

So, those Virtual devices are shown on the main page, I set them up so that selecting them fires the power on macro for each needed device, followed by the inputs needed, and then jumps to that "devices" page. For example for TV:

Power On Projector <links to projector macro>
Set Projector to Component 1 input
Set Projector to 16:9 AR mode
Power On SSP <links to SSP macro>
Set SSP to "TV" input
Power On SageTV
Jump to TV "device"

Remember I configured each power on macro to have the requisite delays for the devices startup, The end result of the above macro is that if nothing is on, it will power up every device, displaying the "please wait" screen while waiting for each device, select all the right inputs and leave you at remote config best suited for TV. And if some or all the devices are already on, the Power On macros handle skipping the startup process/delay, and the inputs are simply switched.

Now this isn't the most efficient (time wise) startup macro possible, since I could make a macro that powers everything on at once and then waits for each thing to come up before moving on, but I don't think that would be as reliable.

Now I mentioned the virual devices, this is a "device" that I made that has a set of hard/soft buttons that may actually be from multiple devices. For example my Blu-ray device has mostly my BD-player buttons, but on the first soft page it has the 4:3 and Letterbox AR commands for my projector, since I use those more often while watching Blu-ray than most other commands.

The Shutdown macro is like the other virtual devices, except it goes to a page with nothing but Yes and No buttons, to confirm if the user wants to shutdown the whole system. If Yes it fires off the Power Off macro for every device, if No it just goes back to the previous page.

So in a nutshell, I really like my 880, however right now I haven't had a chance to play with the RF base station. I'm trying to minimize my variables as I get this set up. I've still got a couple things to work out in my macros and page layouts, but I'm sure I'll get there.

[stanger89]

Now, I mentioned my shutdown macros/device, that brings me to a question. For some reason I can't get those two buttons/macros to actually execute. From the Watch 1 page I hit Shutdown and it takes me to the Shutdown device. But selecting the Yes or No buttons does nothing. So, any URC programmers with ideas?

-edit

OK, I'm an idiot, I made two pages that looked the same, and then linked to the wrong one