Help building a new system

[bunch92]

Hi ,

I have a PC with SageTV , with a digital TV card (freeview) and it works a treat. I want to go a step further now and build a new machine to go in my lounge, where I have an HDMI TV.

I have chosen some components already (such as an Antec Fusion case, an Abit I-N73HD motherboard ) and I will use SageTV as it handles 2 TV cards.

But I am not sure on which TV cards to get for my needs as people talk about DVB-S2 , CAM and other bits ....

I would like to be able to :
- Have a DVB-T card to get freeview channels (like on my PC at the moment)
- Have one (or two) TV cards to get Sky freesat channels (so that I can watch one sky freesat channel while recording another freesat channel) - BBC-HD not a priority but would be nice.

1) Can SageTV cope with my needs ?

2) What card(s) do I need to achieve the Sky freesat bit (Sky + equivalent in fact)?

3) Is it true that I won't have C4, Five, ....

PS : I have 2 Sky digiboxes (both used as freesat) but I would like everything integrated in the HTPC, so I don't have to use 2 remotes when trying to record a program ...

Thank you for your help ....

[planetc]

Cheapest way would be to use your existing 2 sky boxes connected to a couple of simple tv cards (pvr150 or similar) and a usb uirt to handle the channel changes. You may not have realised but if you use a remote blaster then Sage can handle the channel changes for you, there is no need for two remotes or any manual interaction, it is all automatic. This would not provide any HD capability however.
If you wish to put it all into one box and/or do HD then you need DVBS cards, there is at least one thread on the subject within the UK forums if you look for it. It details cards that work ok with sage. To watch encrypted content you would need a cam, but since you are doing freeview/freesat you shouldn't need one. Hardware for HD playback needs to be fairly high spec and IMHO there is not enough content available in the uk at this time to justify any additional messing about.
Personally I currently use the first setup with a basic sky channels package so have sky cards in both boxes. It works very well and if you have the grundig sky boxes with svideo outputs then with a little tinkering the quality is almost as good as watching live from the digibox. The wife certainly can't tell the difference anyway!
I will probably add freesat to this at a later date myself to increase my tuner count.

[bunch92]

Thank you planetc.

I didn't know about the usb uirt and the remote blaster. That seems good but with 2 of them , they might interfere with each other.

I think I will go for 1 DVB-S2 card, and keep my Pace digibox as a backup to watch C4, Five ... or to watch a program while the DVB-S2 card is recording another.

So do you think that setup could work :
- DVB-T HVR-1100 card for freeview (antenna) + backup Sky digibox (composite) with usb uirt and the remote blaster
- DVB-S2 card for Sky freesat


and most importantly, will the above be controlable with only one remote control within SageTV ?

Sorry to be a pain with all these questions, but I do not want to build a machine that would be hard to operate

[planetc]

I can't give you specifics about which cards will work, but the information is here in the forum if you look for it.
Using a usbuirt will enable sage to send a remote signal to the digibox to change the channel once you have taught it the commands.......

The usbuirt has three channels with seperate emitters, it comes with one built into the unit and 2 can be added, either bought of made by plugging in. You can set the remote properties in sage to treat each emitter individually and assign one per digibox, hence up to 3 digiboxes per usbuirt. If you were to use sky+ boxes aswell then you could control one of each (sky and sky+) per emitter as they use a different remote signal and hence would not interfere with each other. I used the two that came with my pvr150s that I soldered to a suitable minijack plug. I kept the signals from interfering with each other by making sure that the two 'trailing' emitters where securely attached close to the receiver on each digibox (I actually drilled the casing and placed them inside adjacent to the receiver) and ensuring that they are well masked with gaffa tape to block any stray signals. The 3rd emitter on the usbuirt itself is left to air, but could be masked in front of 1 or two digiboxes if required. It is tucked away in my setup so it creates no stray signals for me at least.
Another benefit of the usbuirt if you are using a single sage machine is that it also acts as a remote reciever allowing you to use virtually any remote once sage has been taught it's signals.......

Hopefully you are with me so far. Onto other step you would need to take if you have not done so already. From your posts about manually changing channels I wonder if you actually have the epg (similar to the sky guide) set up? If you don't then you are really only making use of a very small part of Sage's power and you need to fix it to use sage in the manner it is meant.
Once this is set up you can choose your programming with it and Sage will know the channel numbers, hence when you wish to record, or watch a given channel it will send the command through the relevant channel on the usbuirt to tune the digibox for you whilst at the same time switching on the pvr card attached to it.

So in answer to your question, yes it would all be controllable from within sage with one remote.

You mention a backup digibox. You can add as many boxes as your hardware will allow and use them to watch and record multiple shows at the same time in Sage. I have kept a third digibox attached to my downstairs TVs until my wife gets her head around sage, but once she has it (slow learner lol) then this will get plumbed into sage and all our viewing will be done through it. The advantages are that it is simple to add an additional point of access to centralised media.

It takes time and patience setting up to really get the best out of Sage, but it is worth it once you get it right.

....Oh my word, reading back over that lot it actually sounds like I know what I am talking about, lol. Hopefully it has been of some help to both you and others that are new to sage!

ps. Hard to operate no. It couldn't be easier to operate, my wife is really really slow at anything new, my 6 year old picked it up in days however.

[starfire]

Originally Posted by bunch92

Hi ,

I have a PC with SageTV , with a digital TV card (freeview) and it works a treat. I want to go a step further now and build a new machine to go in my lounge, where I have an HDMI TV.

Don't know whether you have considered this but rather than building a new machine why not use your existing one as a server and buy an extender STX-HD100 (when they're back in stock!) to go in the lounge? then you won't have a large, noisy PC in there and no worry about codes, patching etc. and it may well save you some money over cost of a new PC

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by starfire

Don't know whether you have considered this but rather than building a new machine why not use your existing one as a server and buy an extender STX-HD100 (when they're back in stock!) to go in the lounge? then you won't have a large, noisy PC in there and no worry about codes, patching etc. and it may well save you some money over cost of a new PC

Thats exactly what I'd do.

[bunch92]

Thx starfire, but I only have the freeview input on my main PC . The digibox and freesat dish cables all arrive next to the TV in the lounge. I also plan to add a Blu-ray player in the new system.

Planetc, I looked for usbuirt on google and I couldn't find the one you were talking about (with 3 channels). Can you please provide me with a link or give me the exact name and reference of the one you are using ?

For the EPG, I already use xmltv on my current setup for freeview, and I am planning on doing that for sky too.

Thank you

[bunch92]

Impressive setup Jaminben !!!

[starfire]

Originally Posted by bunch92

Thx starfire, but I only have the freeview input on my main PC . The digibox and freesat dish cables all arrive next to the TV in the lounge. I also plan to add a Blu-ray player in the new system.

Ah OK. But rather than try and "blast" a Sky digibox and feed its composite input into a PVR card I would just get another DVB-T tuner if you need to - a much neater solution, pretty cheap these days, will not fail to blast the correct channel and will give you much better picture quality.

edit: unless of course the reason for this is to get non-Freeview Sky channels! :-)

[bunch92]

Originally Posted by starfire

Ah OK. But rather than try and "blast" a Sky digibox and feed its composite input into a PVR card I would just get another DVB-T tuner if you need to

You mean a DVB-S2 card ? I like that solution too (it is the one I was thinking of in my second post).

[starfire]

I just mean't that if at all possible using internal DVB-S, DVB-S2 or DVB-T cards is a better solution than having to use digiboxes feeding their composite out into a PVR card and having to use a blaster to change channels.

[jaminben]

As Starfire said. Go for an internal PCI DVB-S2 card especially if your getting Freesat. Also no need for a cam if your going to use Freesat but I think you will if your going down the Freesat from $ky route.

You also asked about channel 4 and 5, currently all channel 4 channels are available via Freesat except for CH4HD. Five isnt available but should be here before the end of 2008 (fingers crossed) and if rumors are to be beleived then it could be as soon as November 5.

[planetc]

Originally Posted by jaminben

Thats exactly what I'd do.

It's also exactly what I'd do too, my system is much more responsive since I split to seperate server and clients. I would think that if you have the capability to set this up then moving a couple of cables will be childs play. It is also worth noting that for an SD setup you can get away with pretty low rent hardware. I run an xp2500+ server with a gig of ram which runs five clients, four of which only have 1gig processors.

For the usbuirt see this page http://www.usbuirt.com/order.htm

It appears they are currently out of stock. There are alternative methods of achieving the same goal however, search the forum for remote resources and you will find a comprehensive guide somewhere IIRC.

I also agree with starfire and jaminben, if it meets your requirements then an internal card or two might be easier for you to get working properly.

[bunch92]

Thank you all, I have a clearer picture of how it works, and will go for several internal cards.

Last question about how SageTV operates 2 similar cards and then I am off to the shops! If I have two DVB-S2 cards in my PC (or 1 card with twin tuner), and both get the same set of channels (i.e. I will have two BBC1 physical channels but I guess I will have to set them up as 1 logical channel in the EPG). Will SageTV know where to get signal from knowing I could be recording/watching any other channel from the other TV tuner. I am sure SageTV will cope with that but I just wanted to make sure it did ....

[jaminben]

I'm not 100% sure what your asking, but you can record one channel per tuner and Sage will know what tuners are available to record and which ones are not, if none are available then it will tell you.

[bunch92]

Originally Posted by jaminben

I'm not 100% sure what your asking, but you can record one channel per tuner and Sage will know what tuners are available to record and which ones are not, if none are available then it will tell you.

Perfect ! Thanks

[MCE-Refugee]

The best value tuner for what you want to do is the Pinnacle 7010ix. It has 2xDVB-T & 2xDVB-S tuners so you get Freeview & Freesat & it requires just one PCI-e slot. These were OEM only & seem to be difficult to find now but there is someone (not me:-) on Ebay who has some for sale at £59.95 or Best Offer. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Pinnacle-D...d=p3286.c0.m14

BTW You are missing out if you don't rate BBC HD as a priority. It's worth buying a DVB-S card just for that channel alone. The picture quality is breathtaking & it has full 5.1 surround sound on many programmes.

[jaminben]

Those cards look good but they dont seem to support DVB-S2 which I would want to future proof the system. You may also want to make sure that all 4 tuners can be used at the same time, I have a Hauppauge HVR4000 which in theory can support upto 3 channels at once but in reality it will only do one at a time.

[bartley9]

I have a similar set up to part of what you are proposing.

Two Sky boxes which are connected to a PVR500 and controlled by a USB UIRT. No channel chaniging problems apart from the rare(1 every 2-3 months) missed digit which fails to change the channel.

I use a Sky+ remote control which has different codes to a normal sky remote and no overlaps.

I also have a Nova DVBS2 card which receives HD. This is a little bit flakey though, about once a month it comes up with errors about having old drivers and won't record anything until I restart sage. Make sure you have enough connectors on your LNB to support all the tuners.

[MCE-Refugee]

Originally Posted by jaminben

Those cards look good but they dont seem to support DVB-S2 which I would want to future proof the system. You may also want to make sure that all 4 tuners can be used at the same time, I have a Hauppauge HVR4000 which in theory can support upto 3 channels at once but in reality it will only do one at a time.

The only channels currently using DVB-S2 are subscription HD channels. DVB-S channels are not going to disappear for a very, very long time as all regular satellite channels use this protocol e.g. all those millions of Sky & Sky+ digiboxes will never be able to use DVB-S2.

I can confirm that all 4 tuners can be used simultaneously. In fact I didn't mention that the DVB-T tuners can also be configure as analogue so could be used connected to a STB. For 60 quid it's a steal & in fact I have just ordered another.