Design suggestions for four room SageTV system...

[toby]

Hello all,

I'm needing some help determining what to do for cable/sat with four room sagetv system. I plan on putting a HD100 media extender at each TV when they become available. I am leaning towards Dish's turboHD for the low monthly cost. However, I do not want to pay $350 ($1,400 for 4 ) to mod the box.

I looked at the HD-PVR but it doesn't have HDMI connector. I would like everything to have HDMI as I can't get over purchasing a device with yesterday's technology.

What are my options? Am I going to have to hold off on cable/sat until they come up with a HDMI enabled HD-PVR?

TIA,

toby

[GKusnick]

The whole point of the HD-PVR is that it exploits the analog hole to record every channel you're subscribed to, bypassing DRM restrictions. An HDMI-enabled version of it would defeat that purpose and put you back in the land of DRM and not being able to record all the channels you receive. So I doubt there will be such a version, nor would you want it if there were. It basically wouldn't be any better than recording digital OTA or clear QAM straight from the cable.

[stanger89]

There will never be an HDMI HD PVR because HDMI (HDCP specifically) to be unrecordable.

[toby]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

The whole point of the HD-PVR is that it exploits the analog hole to record every channel you're subscribed to, bypassing DRM restrictions. An HDMI-enabled version of it would defeat that purpose and put you back in the land of DRM and not being able to record all the channels you receive. So I doubt there will be such a version, nor would you want it if there were. It basically wouldn't be any better than recording digital OTA or clear QAM straight from the cable.

Didn't think about that. I also thought by getting HDMI i would be assured 1080p whenever cable/sat provider decided to deliver content in 1080p. The HD-PVR just does 1080i if I am not mistaken.

[btrcp2000]

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/store/

I just added four 211s to a cart and it came to $855 due to their sale.

Just got my second one back under the same deal, very happy with it.

Only reason you would need four boxes is if you want to be able to watch four live tvs at once. If that's the case, if much of that watching is broadcast networks, look at an hdhomerun for your locals. assuming you can get hd ota or qam, you might be able to get away with fewer r5000s.

[toby]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/store/

I just added four 211s to a cart and it came to $855 due to their sale.

Just got my second one back under the same deal, very happy with it.

Only reason you would need four boxes is if you want to be able to watch four live tvs at once. If that's the case, if much of that watching is broadcast networks, look at an hdhomerun for your locals. assuming you can get hd ota or qam, you might be able to get away with fewer r5000s.

Now that I think about it 2 211's would cover my needs, living room and master bd. I think I will test the waters with one modded 211 to start and OTA HD everywhere else. I currently get superb signal quality for OTA channels with my DigitalStream HD3150 plus. Is the HD Homerun the best option for OTA w/ SageTV?

Also, with your 211 do you get 1080p as advertised on dishtv.com after the modification?

Once I purchase the 211 what is the best way to get the dish and LNBs? Will they send someone out after I establish turboHD service even if I am providing my own receiver?

Thanks!

[gibsonpa]

My setup is similar to what you are thinking.

I have 2 Dish Network receivers (turbo HD) with a USB-UIRT for channel changes...then have 4 HD100 extenders for each TV...bedroom, basement, loft, and great room.

My SageTV server is actually on our normal Vista PC (x64)..not a special server just for Sage. The kids are on it playing games, the wife and I surf, connect to work, etc. Sage is just always in the background recording and comskip is doing its thing...really never even know it is there.

Having 2 Dish receivers has not been an issue in our case, since we always watch recorded shows, not live TV...or in the rare case we do watch live TV...it is never more than 2 tv's at a time.

As for best way to get dish/lnb's....are you a new customer? I was, so they came out and installed the dish/lnb's and verified the working of the 2 receivers...all for FREE. I did have them just hook the receivers up to a single tv and never mentioned HTPC, Sage, etc. When they left, I just moved the receivers to the PC and configured the USB-UIRT for channel changes.

Has been working perfectly since Feb.

[toby]

Originally Posted by gibsonpa

My setup is similar to what you are thinking.

I have 2 Dish Network receivers (turbo HD) with a USB-UIRT for channel changes...then have 4 HD100 extenders for each TV...bedroom, basement, loft, and great room.

My SageTV server is actually on our normal Vista PC (x64)..not a special server just for Sage. The kids are on it playing games, the wife and I surf, connect to work, etc. Sage is just always in the background recording and comskip is doing its thing...really never even know it is there.

Having 2 Dish receivers has not been an issue in our case, since we always watch recorded shows, not live TV...or in the rare case we do watch live TV...it is never more than 2 tv's at a time.

As for best way to get dish/lnb's....are you a new customer? I was, so they came out and installed the dish/lnb's and verified the working of the 2 receivers...all for FREE. I did have them just hook the receivers up to a single tv and never mentioned HTPC, Sage, etc. When they left, I just moved the receivers to the PC and configured the USB-UIRT for channel changes.

Has been working perfectly since Feb.

Yes, I am a new customer.

So you have the modded 211's? I checked theirs site and they are asking $800 per box. That takes the WAF down to 0% after showing her the cost of the boxes. Looks like we may end up with SageTV for DVD, Music, and OTA until pricing for Direct/Dish becomes more reasonable to record. I might even consider SD cable service into SageTV. What tuner card would you all recommend if I went this route in the interim?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by toby

So you have the modded 211's? I checked theirs site and they are asking $800 per box. That takes the WAF down to 0% after showing her the cost of the boxes.

The pre-modified boxes are $800. If you already have a 211 STB, then it "only" costs $285 to modify it. You can have two 211 boxes modified for about $430.

Still, I'd be uncomfortable with the R5000 mods. It really locks you into that STB. I move a lot, and have cable tv, so the R5000 wouldn't really work for me. Every time I moved I'd have to send the STB back in to have the mod removed. The HD-PVRs are really great in theory, but it still doesn't sound like they are nearly as reliable as regular video capture cards. I'm holding off on buying anything for a while.

[MrD]

I use 2 DirecTV H20s and 2 HD-PVRs to support 5 viewing locations (it will be 6-7 once the basement is finished).

The HD picture is flawless, especially sports. My main TV is 55 inches.

I use the Patterson Tech devices to change the channel. It is basically serial control, using the USB port on the DirecTV H20 boxes. They are great... much better than IR control.

[gibsonpa]

I must be a little confused...what is the reason for a "modded" dish box? Is it only for channel changes or some other reason? I use the USB-UIRT ($45) to control both my dish boxes no problem. I must be missing some part...but my setup is working great without it I guess.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gibsonpa

I must be a little confused...what is the reason for a "modded" dish box?

The R5000 mod essentially turns your Dish STB into a USB tuner. You can record the transport stream directly off the box via USB.

The problem it only works on a few boxes, and those boxes are sort of rapidly disappearing.

[toby]

Originally Posted by reggie14

The pre-modified boxes are $800. If you already have a 211 STB, then it "only" costs $285 to modify it. You can have two 211 boxes modified for about $430.

Still, I'd be uncomfortable with the R5000 mods. It really locks you into that STB. I move a lot, and have cable tv, so the R5000 wouldn't really work for me. Every time I moved I'd have to send the STB back in to have the mod removed. The HD-PVRs are really great in theory, but it still doesn't sound like they are nearly as reliable as regular video capture cards. I'm holding off on buying anything for a while.

I'm in total agreement with you on this one. Looks like I'm going to go with OTA for local HD and analog SD cable tv service for sports channels, espn, etc. What tuner card do you recommend to capture SD analog cable tv service?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by toby

I'm in total agreement with you on this one. Looks like I'm going to go with OTA for local HD and analog SD cable tv service for sports channels, espn, etc. What tuner card do you recommend to capture SD analog cable tv service?

Most people tend to recommend the HD HomeRun for OTA and/or QAM HD reception. But, since you want to try out analog capture, I'd recommend one of Hauppauge's HVR series cards. I have an HVR-1600 which has served me well. I have the analog portion hooked up to an SD cable box, and I use the digital tuner to tune QAM HD channels. I don't have any experience with the other HVR cards, although the HVR-2250 sounds interesting.

I didn't realize cable TV was an option. You might want to try getting firewire capture working if you can get your cable company to give you a box with a functional firewire port on it. There's a big thread in this forum that talks about getting that working. It doesn't work for a lot of people (probably a majority), but there's at least a small chance you could record a good portion of your HD channels.

[btrcp2000]

Originally Posted by toby

Now that I think about it 2 211's would cover my needs, living room and master bd. I think I will test the waters with one modded 211 to start and OTA HD everywhere else. I currently get superb signal quality for OTA channels with my DigitalStream HD3150 plus. Is the HD Homerun the best option for OTA w/ SageTV?

Also, with your 211 do you get 1080p as advertised on dishtv.com after the modification?

Once I purchase the 211 what is the best way to get the dish and LNBs? Will they send someone out after I establish turboHD service even if I am providing my own receiver?

Thanks!

My two bits on old questions:

To my knowledge, 1080p only applies to certain pay per view movies not regular hdtv channels, and you have to have a dish box with a dvr (622 or 722), so it is not applicable to my 211s. I decided I didn't care about it because there weren't that many movies available, and they were like $6-$7 a pop. Haven't looked at it since, so things may have changed. Also, I doubt if you could get access to the 1080p ppv movies via r5000 because they would reside on the dvr's hard drive. HDPVR theoretically would work, but I don't know if it can do 1080p. Bottom line is, look at what's available on dish before you worry too much about 1080p. You might find you don't care.

HDHR saves me like $5 a month since I don't need to pay dish for locals, but more importantly, it saves me a tuner. r5000s can take care of the premium hd stuff, and the HDHRs are for broadcast, so fewer conflicts. Also, hdhr files can use comskip/showanalyzer, r5000 cannot without getting into beta software. (would love for someone to point out that I am wrong here...).

As far as firewire, it was awesome until it went away overnight. Took a week or so to learn how to set it up, I used it flawlessly for a few months, then the cable co flipped the switch on me. There are ways to check to see whether your channels have the 5c flag set. If so, firewire is not an option for you. Google for your cable box model and 5c. My thought is that firewire has a more limited shelf life than anything else, since it is already quite evident that cable co's are killing it slowly.

I have a leased 211, which cost me nothing except for the mod, which was $400 last summer. I purchased number two on ebay for $65 (after the live.com 25% discount), and paid $285 for the mod. So I have two r5000 211s for about $750. With their sale and the live.com discount, you could possibly pull off two boxes for $600-$650. If you buy on ebay, make sure you check the serial number with dish beforehand to verify it is not a leased unit.

My HDPVR has been shelved. It worked pretty well, but it couldn't be used with my three SD extenders (mediamvps). Transcoding from the r5000s for display on the mvps isn't flawless, but its watchable, so now I don't have to record two versions of anything to cover every possible location somebody might want to watch something. Beats shelling out another $600 for more hd extenders when I don't even have that many hdtvs.

Phew! Hope this is helpful. //brain dump off//

[toby]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

I have a leased 211, which cost me nothing except for the mod

Since you provided your own receivers did they lock you into a 24-month contract?

[btrcp2000]

yes i have a 24 month contract