HD100 Just died

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

Please check out the Extender FAQ (one of the stickies). It has the information you are looking for.

Thanks. I didn't realize they updated the FAQ. $60 seems mostly reasonable.

Though, I'm still curious about the cause(s) of the malfunctions. This thread contains 15 reports of dead HD100s (plus mine, which seems to only have a few days of life left). That's not very many if everyone with a defective HD100 has shown up, but the number and timing of the reports is such that it calls into question the reliability of Sage-banded hardware. I wish we had third-party options for HD extenders. I'm not sure if I'd go with one, but it would be nice to have the option.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Thanks. I didn't realize they updated the FAQ. $60 seems mostly reasonable.

Though, I'm still curious about the cause(s) of the malfunctions. This thread contains 15 reports of dead HD100s (plus mine, which seems to only have a few days of life left). That's not very many if everyone with a defective HD100 has shown up, but the number and timing of the reports is such that it calls into question the reliability of Sage-banded hardware. I wish we had third-party options for HD extenders. I'm not sure if I'd go with one, but it would be nice to have the option.

Even if you had an option of a 3rd party built extenders, compare that with 3rd party version 2 extenders. Most warranties are 90 day or 1 year. The only extender MS makes is the Xbox 360 which origmally came with a 90 day warranty. Then they bumped it to a year and near the end of 2007 bumped it to 3 years at a cost of $1.5 billon to MS. I honestly don't see being better off with 3rd party built extenders from a defect perspective. Look at the defect issues MS had with the XBox 360. Also, other than the XBox 360, all version 2 extenders only work with Vista Media Center. Version 1 extenders only work with Windows Media Center 2005. XBox is the only extender that works with both. Another plus for Sage is the HD100 is NOT limited to a particular version of SageTV.

Gerry

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Even if you had an option of a 3rd party built extenders, compare that with 3rd party version 2 extenders. Most warranties are 90 day or 1 year.

True. Sage isn't lagging behind there. Though, I'm pretty disappointed Sage doesn't accept American Express, as that would extend the warranty from one year to two.

The only extender MS makes is the Xbox 360 which origmally came with a 90 day warranty. Then they bumped it to a year and near the end of 2007 bumped it to 3 years at a cost of $1.5 billon to MS.

That's actually what I've been thinking about. If the HD100 is just experiencing the expected defect rate, then the $60 repair fee is very customer-friendly program. But, if there's a component on the HD100 which is failing at a much higher rate than expected, then we're sort of in a similar situation to the XBox 360 and I'd really like to see more. Of course, I realize Sage is a small company and can't take hits like Microsoft can, but I think that's just more of an argument for wanting third-party options for hardware.

Another plus for Sage is the HD100 is NOT limited to a particular version of SageTV.

Yeah, but it is limited to Sage. The HD200 is a pretty classic case of vendor lock-in (the HD100 less so because there really weren't other options at that point). I don't mean to suggest that SageTV had any anti-competitive motives behind the decision to build their own extenders, but it's certainly the case that we won't be seeing any HD100/200s driving BeyondTV GB-PVR, or MythTV.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Another plus for Sage is the HD100 is NOT limited to a particular version of SageTV.

Gerry

Originally Posted by reggie14

Yeah, but it is limited to Sage. The HD200 is a pretty classic case of vendor lock-in (the HD100 less so because there really weren't other options at that point). I don't mean to suggest that SageTV had any anti-competitive motives behind the decision to build their own extenders, but it's certainly the case that we won't be seeing any HD100/200s driving BeyondTV GB-PVR, or MythTV.

But isn't that the nature of the beast? None of the Windows Media Extenders (v1) or Vista Media Extenders(v2) work with anything but their respective Media Center products. When you set these up you need to enter keys into the Media Center app and based on that it will be able to access the shared files. And the extender can only be associated to one Media Center PC at a time.
I think Sage is unique in this aspect because of its stand alone mode. So it depends on what device you are actually comparing the Sage Theater HD Extender to - a Windows/Vista Media Center extender or a Network Media Player like the Netgear EVA8000. The Sage Theater HD Extender is actually a hybrid and brings the best of both worlds into play.

Gerry

[JetreL]

I think this tread is uncannily ironic. My HD100 died today with the flashing red light issue. To bad it only lasted 8 months. Anyone have an idea on turn around time for repairs?

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by JetreL

I think this tread is uncannily ironic. My HD100 died today with the flashing red light issue. To bad it only lasted 8 months. Anyone have an idea on turn around time for repairs?

Previous poster indicated less than 2 weeks.

Gerry

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by JetreL

I think this tread is uncannily ironic. My HD100 died today with the flashing red light issue. To bad it only lasted 8 months. Anyone have an idea on turn around time for repairs?

Being on the east coast, I expect shipping time will make up the bulk of the turn-around time. I assume they are going with UPS ground, which is probably about 4 business days each way.

[reggie14]

By the way, I pulled off the top cover of my HD100 and confirmed the whining noise is coming from the power supply board. Also, several capacitors on the power supply board are noticeably bulged. It's pretty trivial to remove the top cover. You just pop off 5 screws and it slides right off. I'd like to encourage people experiencing any odd behavior or noises to take off the top cover and check for bulging capacitors. The top of the capacitors (the cylindrical shaped things on the smaller power supply board) should be flat. They're definitely not on mine.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by reggie14

By the way, I pulled off the top cover of my HD100 and confirmed the whining noise is coming from the power supply board. Also, several capacitors on the power supply board are noticeably bulged. It's pretty trivial to remove the top cover. You just pop off 5 screws and it slides right off. I'd like to encourage people experiencing any odd behavior or noises to take off the top cover and check for bulging capacitors. The top of the capacitors (the cylindrical shaped things on the smaller power supply board) should be flat. They're definitely not on mine.

I know it's probably not Frey's fault but the OEM of the HD100's. But why in the world do companies still keeping using those capcitors with faulty dielectric? The only thing I can guess is that failure is most likely going to occur after the warranty has expired. Although, in the case of the HDHR power supply this was not the case and their problem was due to the same thing. I had it fail on me well within the warranty.

[Crunch]

If the HD100 internal power supply pokes out 5volt/3amp could you not do your own repair by bypassing the internal power supply?

Get a 5volt 3amp or bit higher amp walwart.
Like

http://shop.accessory4you.com/05-cha...1-1.asp?id=255
Put a connection on back of box. Connect from that to board and away you go

Crunch

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Crunch

If the HD100 internal power supply pokes out 5volt/3amp could you not do your own repair by bypassing the internal power supply?

Get a 5volt 3amp or bit higher amp walwart.
Like

http://shop.accessory4you.com/05-cha...1-1.asp?id=255
Put a connection on back of box. Connect from that to board and away you go

Crunch

I had the same thought. This is the very reason why the HD200 is actually a better design. Power supply goes? Go to your local radio shack and pick up a new one. Neither of the 3 HD100's I have have gone out yet, but I might give something like this if one of my HD100's fail.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I know it's probably not Frey's fault but the OEM of the HD100's.

You could almost always say that. When something goes wrong with the hardware in a particular product, it's almost always attributable to someone earlier on in the supply chain. From a consumer's perspective, it seems most reasonable to blame whatever brand is on the product. When your Sony LCD TV goes bad do you blame Sharp, because they manufactured the LCD panel? Do you expect Sharp to fix it if it goes bad, or Sony? So, it may be one of the HD100 manufacturer's "fault", but it's Sage's responsibility.

The only thing I can guess is that failure is most likely going to occur after the warranty has expired.

Yeah, I think that's probably true too, in general. [Somewhat] good for Sage, bad for consumers.

[MrD]

Originally Posted by reggie14

By the way, I pulled off the top cover of my HD100 and confirmed the whining noise is coming from the power supply board. Also, several capacitors on the power supply board are noticeably bulged. It's pretty trivial to remove the top cover. You just pop off 5 screws and it slides right off. I'd like to encourage people experiencing any odd behavior or noises to take off the top cover and check for bulging capacitors. The top of the capacitors (the cylindrical shaped things on the smaller power supply board) should be flat. They're definitely not on mine.

i knew it, bad caps in the supply chain Since the the p/s is a "single" part, hopefully the other caps on the main board are ok.

i would bet that a sequence of serial numbers would fail earlier due to the bad power supplies.

[reggie14]

Here's an update. I just heard back from George at SageTV and I've gone from being pretty upset to being downright pissed. Sage won't fix (i.e., replace the PS board) until the thing won't even start. Apparently a moderately loud high-pitched sound and bulging capacitors aren't enough of a sign that there's something wrong. They won't even take my $60 to fix something that almost certainly doesn't cost $60 to fix (including S/H).

Again, I really wish there were third-party options for the HD extenders. I definitely wouldn't buy another one from Sage if I had a choice.

So, apparently I have to finish off the HD100 to get Sage to do anything. What do I do? Do I leave the HD100 playing something for days at a time until it gives out? If I do that, do I need to be concerned about it catching on fire (particularly since I have noticed the thing seems to be getting much hotter than it ever did in the past)? Assuming it is safe, is there an easy way to get the Hd100 to continuously play back a particular file (or, since it's just the PS board, is it just enough to leave the thing on, but not playing anything)?

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by reggie14

What do I do?

You can always sell it on EBay for $100 with a full disclaimer. Add to it the $60 you would pay for repair and $10-$20 you would pay for shipping to Sage and you have almost full price of brand new HD200.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

You can always sell it on EBay for $100 with a full disclaimer. Add to it the $60 you would pay for repair and $10-$20 you would pay for shipping to Sage and you have almost full price of brand new HD200.

Do you think someone would actually pay $100 for a defective HD100? I don't really feel comfortable selling someone something that doesn't work correctly to begin with- particularly since I'm not 100% sure what's wrong with it, although I think a bad power supply board is a pretty good guess.

[MrD]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Here's an update. I just heard back from George at SageTV and I've gone from being pretty upset to being downright pissed. Sage won't fix (i.e., replace the PS board) until the thing won't even start. Apparently a moderately loud high-pitched sound and bulging capacitors aren't enough of a sign that there's something wrong. They won't even take my $60 to fix something that almost certainly doesn't cost $60 to fix (including S/H).

Again, I really wish there were third-party options for the HD extenders. I definitely wouldn't buy another one from Sage if I had a choice.

So, apparently I have to finish off the HD100 to get Sage to do anything. What do I do? Do I leave the HD100 playing something for days at a time until it gives out? If I do that, do I need to be concerned about it catching on fire (particularly since I have noticed the thing seems to be getting much hotter than it ever did in the past)? Assuming it is safe, is there an easy way to get the Hd100 to continuously play back a particular file (or, since it's just the PS board, is it just enough to leave the thing on, but not playing anything)?

bulging caps *will* fail they are bulging because the electrolyte is breaking down and releasing hydrogen, at a minimum the caps will not be rated as designed.

see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by MrD

bulging caps *will* fail they are bulging because the electrolyte is breaking down and releasing hydrogen, at a minimum the caps will not be rated as designed.

What do you think? Do you think bulging caps are typically indicative of a manufacturing defect that goes beyond "normal" failures? Sage still maintains there's nothing out of the ordinary going on here.

I really don't know what I'm going to do. I do know I'm definitely not going to buy anything else from Sage without at least getting additional warranty protection. I don't trust their hardware to last much more than a year. Sage doesn't accept AmEx, which I got specifically for its warranty extension features, but I did just call to convert one of my Visa cards to a Visa Signature card that also has that feature. I've spent so much money over the years creating a Sage system and I feel like I'm basically stuck with it, and the Sage-branded extenders, now for better or worse.

[MrD]

Originally Posted by reggie14

What do you think? Do you think bulging caps are typically indicative of a manufacturing defect that goes beyond "normal" failures? Sage still maintains there's nothing out of the ordinary going on here.

I really don't know what I'm going to do. I do know I'm definitely not going to buy anything else from Sage without at least getting additional warranty protection. I don't trust their hardware to last much more than a year. Sage doesn't accept AmEx, which I got specifically for its warranty extension features, but I did just call to convert one of my Visa cards to a Visa Signature card that also has that feature. I've spent so much money over the years creating a Sage system and I feel like I'm basically stuck with it, and the Sage-branded extenders, now for better or worse.

I don't think Frey knowingly ordered parts that they knew would fail, they have more to lose than squeezing pennies off the production run.

They are making a good faith effort to repair a failed unit, unfortunately you are stuck in limbo until your unit fails.

If you happen to look at the wiki page; one theory is that the failing cap will cause the transistor to overdrive itself (i.e. the high pitch noise). Then when the transistor fails it could create an open path of unregulated power downstream, causing more damage.

This implies more cost to Frey but the $60 to you is constant.

[MrD]

I also believe that this issue most likely effects a single production run... or a subset of a production; not every HD100