Under Remote Desktop: Insufficient Color Quality?

[PeteCress]

Can't recall the exact message, but when I'm connected to my new SageTV server via Remote Desktop and I try to re-start SageTV, it complains that the color quality is insufficient and needs tb at least 24-bit.

But it seems like Remote Desktop only suppports 16-bit.

Have I run into a show-stopper between me and hiding the server away in a closet with no monitor/keyboard on it?

[gplasky]

You're certainly not going to want to watch SageTV over Remote Desktop.

To enable 32-bit color, follow these steps:
1. Click Start, click All Programs, click Accessories, click Communication,
and then click Remote Desktop Connection.
2. Click Options, click the Display tab, and then click Highest Quality (32
bit) in the Colors list.

There may be a limitation of 24bit depending what version client of RDP you're using. Also RDP as well as these other protocols transmit this information as a sequence of bitmaps. Even compressed this is much less efficient than the original video stream.
RDP is NOT for streaming video.

RDP will cut down the frame rate when there is lots of "change" on the screen. And remote desktop software is usually not too "lossy", meaning that there is no compression factor (as there would be for JPEG) that you can dial up in order to minimize the bandwidth.


Gerry

[GKusnick]

I believe there's a limit of 16-bit color for RDP connections in XP Pro, but you can override it with a group policy setting.

From a command prompt or from Start > Run, run gpedit.msc. In the window that comes up, expand Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Wndows Components and select Terminal Services. In the right-hand panel one of the policy settings should be "Limit maximum color depth". Double-click this, select Enabled, and choose Client Compatible from the dropdown. OK your way out and reboot.

This should remove the 16-bit limit and allow you to connect at any color depth your hardware supports. I don't remember whether you need to do this on both machines or just on the one you're connecting from. Can't hurt to do both.

(If you operate an NT domain, you can configure this setting on the domain controller and have it automatically pushed out to all member computers next time they boot up.)

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You're certainly not going to want to watch SageTV over Remote Desktop.

Definately not. But I will need to perform basic maintainence tasks while the thing is locked in the closet.

To enable 32-bit color, follow these steps:
1. Click Start, click All Programs, click Accessories, click Communication,
and then click Remote Desktop Connection.
2. Click Options, click the Display tab, and then click Highest Quality (32
bit) in the Colors list.

That was the first thing I did, but after the RemoteDesktop sesh starts and I check the color, it's been set to 16-bit.

There may be a limitation of 24bit depending what version client of RDP you're using.

I guess I have to dig a little deeper into RemoteDesktop - and/or try one of the alternatives.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Definately not. But I will need to perform basic maintainence tasks while the thing is locked in the closet.That was the first thing I did, but after the RemoteDesktop sesh starts and I check the color, it's been set to 16-bit.I guess I have to dig a little deeper into RemoteDesktop - and/or try one of the alternatives.

Well I use RDP for maintenance and some configuration too. (Just updated my HDHR to the new release) My WHS shows 24 bit at 1440 x 900. But I never watch the video over RDP. Don't need to. I make whatever changes I need on the server. (Reconfigure, add a plug in, whatever.) And if it's something I need to see video for I minimize RDP and fire up the client on my PC. But again my server is headless and there is no reason to run video from Sage on it. So why would I do it over RDP? No need to. There's no "video configuration" to be done on the server that's a benefit to any client. All the extenders are hardware based and any PC client is configured on its own PC. Even the MVP is hardware based for MPEG2 and anything else is transcoded by the server. Again, nothing is driving the need for video over RDP.

Gerry

[GKusnick]

If it's purely a server, with no directly connected TV, you should consider running Sage in service mode. Then you won't need to launch a UI on the server, and don't have to care what your color depth is.

In fact you don't even need RDP to stop or restart the service. You can do it from any machine by running Administrative Tools > Services and then choosing Action > Connect to another computer. If you share out your SageTV installation directory, you can edit .properties files from any machine as well (stopping the service first of course).

Most Sage admin tasks that require a SageTV UI can be done from any connected client.

[jkohn]

I use Famatech Radmin to get around the limitations of RDP, it works very nicely. This is a true remote control app, as opposed to RDP. So you don't have problems with video, or the fact that sound cards and some other hardware are virtualized. You can actually install and manage drivers remotely with RAdmin, something I definitely wouldn't try with RDP.

[Ryokurin]

Make sure you have Terminal Services client 6 installed on your machine. It was the version that officially enabled 32-bit color and a few other performance changes. It comes in Vista, but I believe isn't installed by default in XP. You'll want to go into the remote options in device manager to make sure its set to allow connections from any remote desktop client, however or it will deny the connections due to inadequate security.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925876

Personally I'm hoping that they open up the rdp client rendering standard introduced in 7 to other companies. Granted you'll probably still only be able to watch video over a lan, but at least its a option. http://computerboom.blogspot.com/200...desktop-7.html

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Ryokurin

Make sure you have Terminal Services client 6 installed on your machine.

Thanks. That was an improvement in a few other areas.

But even though I choose Options | Display | Colors | Highest quality and also Options | Experience | LAN (10 Mbps or higher), the remote PC's desktop Properties | Settings | Color Quality still only has one entry in the dropdown: Medium (16 bit) - even though, when logged on directly to the box in question that dropdown has the usual 3 entiries with Highest (32-bit) at the top of the list.

Per GKusnick's post, I think I should pull out the SageTV manual and figure out how to run Sage as a "service" instead of the way I am running it now.

Late-breaking news: I think I've got it. My Computer | Manage | Services and Applications | Services | SageTV | Properties....


Almost got it.... Sage now automagically starts up as a service. But the UI part is also trying to start. If I reboot and just leave it hanging at the "Error SageTV will not run well at the current color depth..." prompt all's well - business as usual for the clients.

Would be nice, however, to figure out what to remove in order to keep the UI from trying to start. I don't think it's anything in Start | (right click) | Explore.... | Start Menu | Programs | Startup bc I had the SageTV short in there and removed it - also verified it was no longer there for All Users and the user I log on with.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by jkohn

I use Famatech Radmin to get around the limitations of RDP, it works very nicely. This is a true remote control app,

I assume you went with the $50 version and not the $1500 one.

If so, where is the limit imposed? I'm guessing on the PC tb controlled... so that for fifty bucks I would control my server - but from any number of remote PCs.

If I've gotten it right so far, have you tried to control from afar (i.e. outside of your home LAN - as in from behind a firewall at work)?

[S_M_E]

I use RealVNC to remote...

[voorhees]

I use LogMeIn to remote into my server, and it works pretty good so far.

[Thomas Wischgol]

As of service pack 3, XP supports 24-bit remote desktop. You can enable it via the registry editor:
change HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Terminal Server\WinStations\RDP-Tcp\ColorDepth to 4

Thomas

[jkohn]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

I assume you went with the $50 version and not the $1500 one.

Correct.

If so, where is the limit imposed? I'm guessing on the PC tb controlled... so that for fifty bucks I would control my server - but from any number of remote PCs.

Licensing is per-server. RViewer (the client) is free and you can use it from as many machines as you want.

If I've gotten it right so far, have you tried to control from afar (i.e. outside of your home LAN - as in from behind a firewall at work)?

I haven't tried that, but it should be fine. Since it's remote control and not RDP, you can configure it so that 8-bit or 16-bit color is transmitted to the client without affecting the actual desktop resolution of the machine being controlled. So you can adjust the color depth for optimal performance over you net connection without cuasing problems for apps that expect a certain color depth.

[jsschrstrcks]

I tried it under vista home premium -> vista ultimate (yeah it can be done despite it not being an included feature of home premium) and had no issue with the color, but it was miserable watching tv over it.

the audio played through just fine, but the video was awful.

client works much better.

[bluenote]

Hi Pete

It's been awhile since I've used RDP with my sage server, but I did so for years.

Are you actually experiencing any problems other than having to "OK" the error message? Because thats all I remember happening for me.

Cory

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I use RealVNC to remote...

Same here, works great.

[Ryokurin]

I used to use Real as well, but I will caution one thing, make sure you don't install the video hook driver. I used to have a problem with video tearing which was caused by the driver. About the only thing you miss out of it is seeing video if you start it while the program is running. That actually lags the connection, so its better without it.

[JDavis]

There is a line in the sage.properties file to disable the color quality warning message:

"warn_on_non_32bit_color_depth=true"

Just change it to false. I've used RDP with Sage for years with no problem...

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by cnovak

Are you actually experiencing any problems other than having to "OK" the error message? Because thats all I remember happening for me.

No other problems.

Also, I've seen the light and am trying to run SageTV on the server only as a service.

I've gotten as far as finding the Service and making it auto-start itself.

But I'm still trying to figure out how to prevent the SageTV application from automatically starting at bootup time. I *think* I've checked all the "Startup" directories and made sure it's not there.

But I have hazy recollection that there's another way to auto-start an application - and I'm wondering if SageTV is lurking there.