HD100 --> HD200 --> ??? How soon?

[garberfc]

It seems the HD100 was pretty short lived. The HD200 is here and receiving pretty frequent firmware updates.

I'm wondering how long the HD200 is going to be around before the next generation of extender arrives. I'm a little hesitant to plunk down the $$$ if the box is obsolete w/i a year.

Any rumors?

F

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by garberfc

I'm wondering how long the HD200 is going to be around before the next generation of extender arrives. I'm a little hesitant to plunk down the $$$ if the box is obsolete w/i a year.

IMO, the HD200 already does all that's necessary. It plays unencripted Blu-ray and DVD and plays all my recorded HDTV shows without a hitch. I'll most likely be dead before the Blu-ray standard or the ATSC standard is changed. We'll likely continue to see some additions in the added features department (CC is a good example), but I could live my life with the HD200 just the way it is now and be happy with it.

When there is an HD300, I'll re-evaluate. But the HD300 may not be needed over the HD200.

[Clift]

IMO the HD100 is not dead. It's been superceded with the HD200, which adds some more functionality, but that doesn't render the HD100 obsolete.

Think of it this way:
The 2009 Ford F150 may have added some nice features, but a 2008 Ford F150 is no less capable because of that fact.

[Taddeusz]

I think the only thing lacking in the HD200 at this point is pass-through of HD audio over HDMI and passing multi-channel PCM over HDMI. I'm not sure if those can be taken care of in software or if they are limited by the hardware but everything else seems to be fairly complete. Everything else seems to be solvable in software. We've been seeing support for SRT and VOBSUB subtitles as well as CC support. I'd say things are progressing quite nicely. Not sure about streaming HD audio and multi-channel PCM but much of the other stuff should be able to be backported to the HD100 once they get that code stablized. Even with the HD200 out the HD100 still hasn't outlived its usefulness.

[thomaszoo]

The HD-300 will be OK with the HD audio pass through, but I would wait until the HD-400 comes out. I heard it will have a built-in beverage dispenser...

Seriously, I agree with Clift and the other posters - the HD-100 is still a useful piece of hardware that has more than lived up to it's promises. I have 2 HD-100's and am very happy with them. When I need another extender, I will not hesitate to purchase what ever the current model is. Support has been outstanding. How many products do you buy are upgraded for free AFTER you purchase them? The HD-100 is one of them.

Wayne

[paulbeers]

I still use my HD100's. They are great and other than the fact they can't play Blu-Ray rips and don't have the standalone feature, they are perfect. They are especially good for our secondary sets (Like the master bedroom) where we won't really need the additional functionality. I am not sure how much better the HD300 could be. As already stated, it would basically require a new recording format (aka the successor of Blu-Ray) which I think will be awhile coming.

The only thing that would compel Sage to release an HD300 at this point would be to include a Blu-Ray drive with it (basically an HD200 w/ Blu-Ray built in). I would imagine then they would actually carry 2 models (H200 for those who don't need Blu-Ray and HD300 for those who do). This is purely speculation on my part.

From a support and sales point of view, the HD200 is really all they need. Unlike the HD100, the shipping costs are considerably lower for the HD200 as you can fit 2-3 times as many per palet (due to the reduced size) and with the walwart style power supply, the failure rate is reduced (or at least if it does fail it is much eaiser to replace an external power supply than an internal).

Anyone will point out that the HD100 was only out a year before it was replaced by the HD200. I have to believe though that the reduced shipping cost, the ability to play blu-ray, and its ability to work as a stand alone unit (to convince non-Sage users to buy) were the real reasons they replaced the HD100 so quickly. Now that the HD200 does pretty mcuh everything they can ask of it, there is no reason to replace it (over time maybe a cost reduction?).

[toricred]

One other thing they seem to have resolved, knock on wood, is their supply chain. We don't seem to be seeing the several month wait for the next run of HD200s to roll off the assembly line after running out relatively quickly.

[Brent]

If I had to guess, I could see them releasing a new version within a years time. But I don't think that is a bad thing. There is still a market out there for used HD100s and I believe they will continue to update that firmware where they can. There will always be a next new thing out so you'll be waiting forever otherwise.

For the record I still have a Hauppauge MediaMVP (the oldest version of the extenders) that I use in my shop and they still support that for what it does.

[stanger89]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there's a new model this winter. It's just the nature of things, CE devices are refreshed every year, if not, they fall behind.

[bastafidli]

I personally believe the HD300 will be based on platform like NVidia ION. Going with something like that would allow Sage to greatly cut development costs since they could use the Sage Client on the box and wouldnt have to develop the firmware.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

I personally believe the HD300 will be based on platform like NVidia ION. Going with something like that would allow Sage to greatly cut development costs since they could use the Sage Client on the box and wouldnt have to develop the firmware.

And trash everything they've worked on for the HD100 and HD200? That seems pretty senseless to me.

[Stuntman]

I was getting frustrated looking at those USB ports on my HD100 and reading about things you can do with USB on the 200.. I've suggested using them to allow more RAM for faster caching of things to speed the GUI.. perhaps as a 'readyboost' or something.. nobody really thinks that is a good idea.. I've suggested using them to allow playback of portable or non networked content.. maybe even to run an application via a thumbdrive! None of that has ever been acknowledged or even commented on.. so I was about to give up in frustration and just cover them with black tape so I don't see them and ponder what use they are...

Then.. my wife lost her wall-wart cell phone charger.. I figured I could plug the phone into my pc via USB to charge it, but that seemed a waste.. leaving a PC on just to charge a phone.. then it hit me.. the HD100!!!!

Sure enough, my HD100's USB ports now have a very useful feature.. they charge our cell phones..

Thanks Sage for the continuing improvements to a legacy product! I just knew those ports were there for a reason!

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

The only thing that would compel Sage to release an HD300 at this point would be to include a Blu-Ray drive with it (basically an HD200 w/ Blu-Ray built in). I would imagine then they would actually carry 2 models (H200 for those who don't need Blu-Ray and HD300 for those who do). This is purely speculation on my part.

That's what I'm hoping for. It's only a matter of time before I start shopping for a BD player. If I could get one that does Sage too it eliminate one box from my setup and should be able to provide support for HD audio and other niceties.

I'd imagine it would be less an HD200 with BD drive and more like the sample they showed off of a BD player with custom firmware. Some of the newest BD players are offering support for netflix and other online services. Add in Sage support and you'd have a no-brainer (for me).

I don't need any of the features of the HD200 and have no reason to upgrade to it, but this mythical HD-300BD something-or-other would have me reaching for the CC quick.

[mikejaner]

Or, how about the HD300 is powerfull enough to run SageTV media center on it? That would be nice. Then all you would have to do is plug in your usb tuners, connect to HDHR's over the network, and record to either a usb drive or a NAS setup.

[cslatt]

Originally Posted by garberfc

I'm wondering how long the HD200 is going to be around before the next generation of extender arrives. I'm a little hesitant to plunk down the $$$ if the box is obsolete w/i a year.

Seriously, down this road lies madness. Buy the box because you like what it does right now. If it ends up getting functionality added for free down the road, then hey - bonus. If not, it still does what you paid for it to do. The HD100 is by no means obsolete - it does more now that it did when I bought it. It was worth the money then, it is more than worth the money now.

[garberfc]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for all the replies. Some great lively discussions...

Why would you want a BD reader as part of an extender? Why not on the PC itself so that the media can be accessed from all the extenders?

F

[garberfc]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

Or, how about the HD300 is powerfull enough to run SageTV media center on it? That would be nice. Then all you would have to do is plug in your usb tuners, connect to HDHR's over the network, and record to either a usb drive or a NAS setup.

Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of a PC-PVR? PC hardware performance keeps increasing every year, why not take advantage of that. I'm wondering what the cost of the HD300 would be? I can't see it happening...

F

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by garberfc

Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of a PC-PVR? PC hardware performance keeps increasing every year, why not take advantage of that.

Because it's completely unnecessary. My Sage server is an Athlon XP 1800+ and Sage almost never uses anywhere close to 100% CPU. IMO the purpose of a PC PVR isn't about horsepower it's about flexibility, being able to add arbitrary hard drives, tuners, extenders, clients. Being able to customize the interface to your tastes. None of these require high-end PC horsepower.

I'm wondering what the cost of the HD300 would be?

Well if we're talking something like the HD200 but with a hard drive and maybe an ATSC/QAM tuner, $300 wouldn't be unreasonable. And then if it supported recoring from USB (HD PVR, USB PVRs, etc) and network (HD Homerun), and record to USB or network disc locations, just think how much more expandable that would be vs a Tivo. And how much easier vs a PC.

[reggie14]

I pretty much agree with everything Stanger said. Some kind of Sage server-in-a-box could really make Sage accessible to a much wider audience. And, I think it would be worth quite a bit more than $300 if hard drives and tuners are included in the box (perhaps roughly $300 if you had to purchase hard drives and tuners separately, which could make sense too).

I kind of wonder how successful it would be though, given that dealing with and setting up IR blasters is probably something novice users wouldn't do. So, for the audience that would benefit from a Sage server-in-a-box most, you'd essentially be limited to QAM and ATSC tuning. At times I thought that market was too niche, but I'm not entirely sure. There did/does seem to be some excitement surrounding the $250 DTVPal DVR, which was essentially a more limited version of what we're envisioning. I would think a full-functioning Sage box would be worth quite a bit more.

I think you could even imagine some really cool things too. The server boxes could have wireless-N routers in them. They could sell HD200-like clients that could just stream wirelessly off the server. Or, you could add another server box which could work as a network encoder. Though, the ability to record more than 2 channels at once is really just useful if you can record cable/satellite, so you'd want analog inputs and IR blasters. At this time standard def is fine, which you could imagine going in the server boxes themselves. Maybe some day you could imagine putting HD-PVR-like internals in a server box.

I don't really think this is going to happen. But, I think it has the potential for Sage to either make lots of money, or lose lots of money (as there would be a sizable initial investment required). It'd be pretty cool though.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I kind of wonder how successful it would be though, given that dealing with and setting up IR blasters is probably something novice users wouldn't do. So, for the audience that would benefit from a Sage server-in-a-box most, you'd essentially be limited to QAM and ATSC tuning. At times I thought that market was too niche, but I'm not entirely sure. There did/does seem to be some excitement surrounding the $250 DTVPal DVR, which was essentially a more limited version of what we're envisioning. I would think a full-functioning Sage box would be worth quite a bit more.

To really be effective in the market they would need to have CableCard support just like the Tivo. Otherwise it would be quite a limited device. And to start down that road would mean encryption to protect the recordings from everything we're currently able to do with SageTV. No, I'd rather keep the flexibility we have now rather than risking slipping down the slope of anti-consumer protection.