SageTV vs. DirecTV HD-PVR - Who Wins?

[kingwr]

Let me offer a further opinion. I have the HD-DVR in question (HR21) and use it as my primary TV viewing DVR. I operate a Windows 2005 MCE system with extenders in the rest of the house. The HR20/R21 DVR is (after 3 years of upgrades and patches) finally a decent and stable product. However, it's major flaw is that it lacks connectivity between multiple units, so no sharing the recordings to other HR21s or H21s.

Direc2PC allows watching of recorded shows on a properly configured computer (must Viiv compatible hardware and HDCP all the way to the monitor), but you can only do just that, watch recordings. No scheduling recordings, watching live TV, accessing the guide, etc.

The HR21's ability to get pictures and music from your PC is marginal at best. I can't recount specifics, but I have played with this several times over the years, only to give up in frustration. Perhaps one more try with the latest patch...

[jsonnabend]

Originally Posted by kingwr

Let me offer a further opinion. I have the HD-DVR in question (HR21) and use it as my primary TV viewing DVR. I operate a Windows 2005 MCE system with extenders in the rest of the house. The HR20/R21 DVR is (after 3 years of upgrades and patches) finally a decent and stable product. However, it's major flaw is that it lacks connectivity between multiple units, so no sharing the recordings to other HR21s or H21s.

Direc2PC allows watching of recorded shows on a properly configured computer (must Viiv compatible hardware and HDCP all the way to the monitor), but you can only do just that, watch recordings. No scheduling recordings, watching live TV, accessing the guide, etc.

The HR21's ability to get pictures and music from your PC is marginal at best. I can't recount specifics, but I have played with this several times over the years, only to give up in frustration. Perhaps one more try with the latest patch...

If the HR21's had MRV, would you consider it a reasonable replacement for SageTV's DVR capabilities?

- Jeff

[FreshOne]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

@FreshOne: when you do, can you report back with your findings?

Also, I imagine that the remote vs. mouse issue can be overcome with a USB-UIRT and EventGhost.

Multi-monitor support works for me in the newest build under Windows 7 Professional.

[wylekyot]

first off I have been using sage for about 5 years now and spent thousands on hardware , hard drives , computers and extenders. It was way ahead of its time and did things nothing else could... Until now. The one thing my wife and I loved about sage was the ability to record and watch in any room in the house. This being our most cherished ability is what has kept us from direct tv-dvr. however, direct tv now has this ability, in beta right now, but still available. example: you have 2 hd-dvr's with 2 tuners a piece, that the ability to record 4 at a time and 2 standard HD boxes. (2 hd-dvr's and 2 hd recievers). Now, all 4 can now view and schedule recordings from any of the hd-dvr's!. You are however limited to 50 series favorites "per hd-dvr" so with 2 dvrs you get 100. I look at it like this $200 per hd200's or a direct dvr. to record 2 hd channels at a time with sage from direct tv i need 2 hd recievers and 2 hdpvr's and each hd pvr cost $200.
so 1 directv hd-dvr = record 2 hd shows at once > $200
or 2 hd pvr's and 2 hd recievers = record 2 hd shows at once > $600 not including sage server and hd200.
For me the money is going to make the decision for me , now that sharing recordings is available.

http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/...ostID=10645513

[Bikeman]

Remember that while its in beta its no charge. After it goes live, there will be a monthly charge. They haven't announced pricing yet, but I'm guessing $5 to $10 per month, per machine.

Jeff

[tmiranda]

Competition is good news. It will drive Sage, and other competitors, to be even better. I expect the cable companies PVR offerings to get better over time. The cable companies may be slow, but they are not (always) stupid.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by wylekyot

Now, all 4 can now view and schedule recordings from any of the hd-dvr's!. You are however limited to 50 series favorites "per hd-dvr" so with 2 dvrs you get 100. I look at it like this $200 per hd200's or a direct dvr.

But it sounds like you still have to manually manage which DVR they're scheduled on? Do you have to remember which one they were recorded on? Or do you get one concise list of all your recordings?

What happens if one DVR is recording two things already, you can't watch something else live on that one can you? You have to go to a different room? You can't watch live from another DVR right?

to record 2 hd channels at a time with sage from direct tv i need 2 hd recievers and 2 hdpvr's and each hd pvr cost $200.
so 1 directv hd-dvr = record 2 hd shows at once > $200
or 2 hd pvr's and 2 hd recievers = record 2 hd shows at once > $600 not including sage server and hd200.

But each "extender" in that system is $100 up front and $5/mo right?

It's a very nice change, and will probably be enough for some. But it's still not up to what Sage can do.

[Skirge01]

For me, it's very simple: SageTV wins. I've already made the investment in SageTV, so I'm in this for the long haul. Reasons:

• No DRM
• Limitless storage
• Limitless tuners
• Quality hardware
• No service calls (lost work days)
• Minimal loss of recordings due to failures
• GUI customization
• Single interface for music, movies, photos, and recordings

[jsonnabend]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

For me, it's very simple: SageTV wins. I've already made the investment in SageTV, so I'm in this for the long haul. Reasons:

• No DRM
• Limitless storage
• Limitless tuners
• Quality hardware
• No service calls (lost work days)
• Minimal loss of recordings due to failures
• GUI customization
• Single interface for music, movies, photos, and recordings

A few of your points simply aren't true:

• Quality hardware? Not the HD-PVR.
• No service calls? Is Sage providing your cable and/or satellite service, too?
• Minimal loss of recordings due to failures? What does that mean? My Sage+HDPVR is far from failure free.
• Limitless tuners? Nothing stopping anyone from multiple cable/satellite boxes (although some cable companies limit boxes by # of tv sets).

As for the rest, to me not nearly as important as reliability.

- Jeff

[JetreL]

I guess we are waking this old thread back up. I had never had an issue with DirecTV until I decided to try their HD-DVR. Here is my take:

DirecTVs HD Dvr

Pros:

• The box seems well made (appealing to the eyes)
• Nifty little light in the front when fast-forwarding
• It has a small form factor
• You can record 2 videos at the same time.
• 30 second fast forward is well integrated and give more image samples during the fast forward
• It was easy to hook up and get operational.
• RF Remote capable
• Beta program available if you are interested in testing new features as they come out.
• A fairly decent product for mass market

Cons:

• Menu system can be fairly complicated to navigate
• Most of their On-demand is really just IP streaming. Don't expect to watch the video immediately. Some of the quality seems VHS
• When watching a show and it goes off DVR tunes immediately to a channel instead of going back to menu or screen-saver
• No Commercial Skip (Commercials extremely loud! DirecTV is it really that hard to force volume normalization)
• 2-year contract for ordering DVR with $20/month penalty to cancel service. Even if the box is only activated for 10 seconds
• Cost of the box is $199 for a service plus $5 / month for HD service
• Limited recording space, not easily upgradeable. If you do upgrade the drive you loose all your existing stored video
• Lack of ability to add features or customize interface.
• Recordings on one box are not viewable on other boxes in the house.
• Complicated menu system. (You think Sage's menu system is lack luster)
• DRM - No ability to take shows and migrate them to another platform
• A customer service that could care less if you are happy with the product/service or not.

I could probably go on for another couple of pages of the cons. I ordered a DirecTV HD DVR to test out as a possible replacement for SageTV. (HD-PVR freezing issues with 5.1 audio) Boy was that a mistake. I immediately didn't like it once I had it set up and the WAF was near zero after her using our customized version of SageTV.

I left the box running for ~2 weeks just to give it a chance and we were pretty miserable till I finally went back to SageTV. We decided stereo was good enough if we wanted a quality DVR solution. We have been very happy since.

Basically DirecTV is probably fine for the mass market or someone that doesn't want to put any effort in designing and configuring their DVR interface and is ok with limited feature set.

SageTV is for the market who wants more and is willing to pop the hood to make it run better.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

A few of your points simply aren't true:
[*]Quality hardware? Not the HD-PVR.

So, because 1 device in the chain has had issues, the entire setup is junk? I don't see it that way. My client HTPC and WHS box have tons of hardware and they are all quality parts. I RMA'd 2 HD-PVRs (still no proof it actually was an issue with them) and they've been rock solid ever since I fixed the other issues which were contributing to their lack of reliability. There are plenty of people who have never had issues with their HD-PVR.

What "part" of the DirecTV box can you replace? My STBs from DirecTV were breaking about every 4-5 months, losing all recordings when it was a DVR.

[*]No service calls? Is Sage providing your cable and/or satellite service, too?

I haven't had a DirecTV technician out since I got the HD-PVRs, nor have I even needed to call them for any issues. From my perspective, that means no service calls and no lost work days waiting for them to [not] show up. On the rare instance that something does go wrong (usually caused by me, anyway), I fix it myself, on my schedule.

[*]Minimal loss of recordings due to failures? What does that mean? My Sage+HDPVR is far from failure free.

As I said, mine is as solid as a rock. We haven't missed a recording in over a year. But, what I was really talking about is the fact that if my server has any hardware failures, my recordings are safe. They'll still be able to be watched after I fix something. Not so with a dead DirecTV STB. I can also utilize redundancy or RAID protection as an added security factor.

[*]Limitless tuners? Nothing stopping anyone from multiple cable/satellite boxes (although some cable companies limit boxes by # of tv sets).

It's been a while... can you record OTA to a DirecTV DVR? I currently have 2 HD-PVRs and 2 HDHRs. If I wanted my current 4 OTA tuners, I'd need 2 DirecTV DVRs plus their OTA tuner add-on and would be paying for 2 HD tuners which I wouldn't be using. So, I guess I could get the number of tuners I want, I'd just have to pay for tuners I don't want.

As for the rest, to me not nearly as important as reliability.

You're right and I should've included that in my post. The reliability of my SageTV setup is through the roof compared to when I was using the DirecTV DVRs.

[jsonnabend]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

So, because 1 device in the chain has had issues, the entire setup is junk?

Um, yes? If the one "device in the chain" renders the whole chain unusable, then the entire setup is "junk" (i.e., it doesn't do what it's supposed to do). What good is a "setup" if it doesn't do what it's supposed to do? Should I tell my wife, "sorry, honey, I know the figure skating recording was trash, but it's the system"?

"Well, friend, you're car isn't junk, it's just the engine that's beyond repair."

There's logic for you.

- Jeff

[stanger89]

My HD PVR has been perfect for months too. As for "unlimited" tuners with DTV, how many DVRs' can you hook together? And how much of a mess is it managing favorites/space on those multiple, DVRs?

Look, if the DTV HD DVRs satisfy your needs, that's great, but just because you can schedule on other DVRs and watch recordings on other DVRs doesn't mean they're a match for Sage if you have/want a more demanding setup.

[jsonnabend]

Originally Posted by stanger89

My HD PVR has been perfect for months too. As for "unlimited" tuners with DTV, how many DVRs' can you hook together? And how much of a mess is it managing favorites/space on those multiple, DVRs?

Look, if the DTV HD DVRs satisfy your needs, that's great, but just because you can schedule on other DVRs and watch recordings on other DVRs doesn't mean they're a match for Sage if you have/want a more demanding setup.

I agree completely. Just don't discount reliability as an important "feature".

- Jeff

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Just don't discount reliability as an important "feature".

I don't think anybody's doing that. The points being made are:

* SageTV can be quite reliable, even when using HD-PVRs. (Granted some users have not achieved this level of reliability.)

* DTV DVRs aren't immune from reliability problems. (I've had to RMA a couple myself.)

* When you RMA a DTV DVR, you lose all recordings stored on that box. When your Sage setup goes bad, you can almost always fix it (on your own schedule) with your stored recordings intact.

So even the reliability issue is not a clear win for DTV.

[davenlr]

I always ran SageTv (using HDPVR and FTA Sat, and ATSC tuner) completely separate from my DirecTv setup (two 1TB HDDVRs and two HD Receivers). This week, I decided to switch things around a little, and am testing how well SageTv with a USBUIRT controls one of the DirecTv receivers. Unfortunantly, when I hooked that up, the ATSC USB tuner started failing, and took the HDPVR with it. Suggestions have been made its my Asus motherboards USB ports causing the problem. The ATSC tuner works fine on a standalone PC.

So right now Im running SageTv with DirecTv only, have a HDHomerun dual tuner box on the way. Im needing to cut down on my DirecTv bill, and having two DVRS and two receivers in a single persons house is overkill. The DVRs are great, and the multiroom video works well, but their media sharing is terrible, as is losing all your recordings if you have to RM a box.

The 1080p upconvert, as well as SageTv's HD GUI is a welcome addition.

Im going to use this setup to archive shows I want to save, and use the DirecTv DVR to record shows I just want to watch, but not save. This will let me save $10 by turning off one DVR and one receiver. Ill probably get a second media extender.

SageTv would blow DirecTvs DVRs away, if someone made a plug in DirecTv tuner, but with Directs concern for DRM, that will never happen.

[PLUCKYHD]

I gave up on Directv back in the early 2000's when I started using Window Media center. I was a early tivo user and had one of the first tivo's. When directv came to the market with their hd-tivo I jumped all over it. It really was great 100% reliable I could record 2 hd channels at a time (mix of OTA and directv) and had absolutely no issues with it. Then a year later Directv decided to kill tivo support and added mpeg4 channels that were not compatible with the hd-tivo. So after spending $1100 on a hd-tivo (that is nothing the first sony hd box from them cost me $1500 and that was to get one demo channel in hd) that now couldn't get the latest channels I was done. (not tivo's fault) Now remember when I say it was reliable it was a tivo not a directv box...I have many friends trying out the multi room beta and man does it suck they have a far learning curve still in this area. The ui is a pain to navigate as well. Directv and dish are notorious for constantly changing hardware and requiring upgrades to get the latest and greatest channel. Plus they are launching 3d and if I had to bet that will require a new box as well.

Anyhow I think Cable and Satellite are late to the game in multi room and have a long ways to go to play catchup. At&t has a leg up simply because they relied on mediaroom built by microsoft who has experience with media center(although mediaroom still lacks allot of the basic functions it should have)

Anyhow that is my 2 cents

cheers

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Um, yes? If the one "device in the chain" renders the whole chain unusable, then the entire setup is "junk" (i.e., it doesn't do what it's supposed to do). What good is a "setup" if it doesn't do what it's supposed to do? Should I tell my wife, "sorry, honey, I know the figure skating recording was trash, but it's the system"?

"Well, friend, you're car isn't junk, it's just the engine that's beyond repair."

There's logic for you.

- Jeff

I understand what you're trying to say, but the analogy doesn't work. The "engine" in my setup has great hardware and works just fine: the server. If I got a flat tire or the radio stopped working (i.e. a tuner went south), that wouldn't cause me to think the entire car was junk.

[JetreL]

@jsonnabend & @Skirge01

No I am sure both of you know that no one ever wins these types of debates. Lets just say you both have differing opinions and leave it at that...

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by JetreL

@jsonnabend & @Skirge01

No I am sure both of you know that no one ever wins these types of debates. Lets just say you both have differing opinions and leave it at that...

LMAO! You're absolutely right, but I just had to finish the analogy. He can continue if he wants, but I won't be going further down that road.