iPhone/Touch Interface with Playon

[m4tth3wv]

Anyone see Playon's new iPhone/Touch interface to Playon?

http://www.playon.tv/playon/thank-you-for-downloading

Pretty slick and goes around the restrictive Appstore since it's web based.

[Suntan]

That's great, but we don't all use iphones. PlayOn made an HTML interface... ...that only works on iphone. Silly.

-Suntan

[Khristopher]

Originally Posted by Suntan

That's great, but we don't all use iphones. PlayOn made an HTML interface... ...that only works on iphone. Silly.

-Suntan

How is catering to the largest demographic silly?

[Fuzzy]

Using something standard like HTML, but then 'locking' it to just the iPhone is what is silly.. it's just so... apple'ish...

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Using something standard like HTML, but then 'locking' it to just the iPhone is what is silly.. it's just so... apple'ish...

I am wondering if is is maybe just coded to look right on iPhone/iPad and other phones don't Display it the same. But yeah not understanding that if it is HTML.

[Zippster]

Android FTW!!

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by Khristopher

How is catering to the largest demographic silly?

iphone users > html users... ???

Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

-Suntan

[Fuzzy]

well, did some playing with it, and it IS an HTML page. Using my droid, I can browse to it, and navigate the folders. Once I changed to an IPhone UserAgent, I was also able to click the Play icon... it downloads a .m3u8 playlist file, that points to a few other .m3u8 playlist files (one for each of a few different bandwidth files). Haven't worked further from it, but it seems that those would probably contain the actual feed URL, which android could probably play... Guess it would have made more sense to just use HTML5 video tags.. but they apparently didn't feel that was the right way to go...

[jreichen]

It's using Apple's HTTP Live Streaming, which does not work on Android but has been submitted as an open spec so if somebody wanted to implement it in an Android media player they could.

HTTPLS is basically the only way to do live transcoding over standard HTTP connections (as opposed to RTSP connections) with the HTML5 video tag.

There's a big misperception that just because somebody throws an HTML5 video tag into a web page it means a video stream will play on any HTML5 browser. Ever tried using YouTube's HTML5 video in Firefox? For the video tag to work, the server must use the right "streaming" protocol (HTTPLS, RTSP, HTTP progressive download, etc), container (mpegts for iPhone, not sure what Android uses) and codec (H264, Theora, VP8). It's still very much in its infancy and requires coding differently for different devices. In fact, forget the video tag, it's not easy getting HTML and CSS to display the same on different devices.

This is pure speculation but I'm guessing playon started with iPhone support because HTTPLS is relatively easy and works the same on all iPhones. Maybe they'll start on Android support next but take a look at the video discussion on Fonceur's Android app thread and you'll see how widely video streaming results can vary on Android devices.

And for the record I want to see both iPhones and Android phones succeed. I just hope the industry can agree on standards so that using HTML video is a lot easier than it is right now. Sage would really benefit.

[Fuzzy]

Most of the streaming problems in the android thread are either old, out-dated installs, or prople trying to stream interlaced HD-PVR recordings, which VLC can't transcode properly. Simple files stream just fine to my droid using RTSP.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by Khristopher

How is catering to the largest demographic silly?

Interestingly, I just read a report that claims that a huge sales surge in the past year has now pushed Android past iPhone as the US market leader, with 34% of market share for Android as compared to 31% for Blackberry and 22% for Apple.

http://www.canalys.com/pr/2010/r2010081.pdf

So I guess the iPhone advocates are going to have to come up with a better argument for why their platform should get priority.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Interestingly, I just read a report that claims that a huge sales surge in the past year has now pushed Android past iPhone as the US market leader, with 34% of market share for Android as compared to 31% for Blackberry and 22% for Apple.

http://www.canalys.com/pr/2010/r2010081.pdf

So I guess the iPhone advocates are going to have to come up with a better argument for why their platform should get priority.

How about shear sales volume? I mean from the app store itself not phones. My last read says android app sales (not free) aren't close.

In all seriousness I don't like the droid syndrome. Every maker has one and there really isn't anything original coming out anymore everything is running droid and nothing stands out from the competition. Plus. Relying on google who freely shares people private information scares me even more.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Using something standard like HTML, but then 'locking' it to just the iPhone is what is silly.. it's just so... apple'ish...

I hate to nik pik, and I love a good iphone bashing more than anyone... but I think after many years of shaking my head at why people build web applications that ONLY work in windows... I don't think this is an apple'ish thing... but rather a Windows'ish thing At least now... most web apps work across multiple OSes... but I've spent years watching first hand where development teams make the wise choice to port an app to the web... and then decide that they'll only support IE on Windows

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

How about shear sales volume? I mean from the app store itself not phones. My last read says android app sales (not free) aren't close.Plus.

How is free vs paid relevant... users are users?? Unless you mean that by shear sales volume, if I'm going to create a paid App, I should target iphone, since there is better chance that people will pay for it. (is that the point?)

Relying on google who freely shares people private information scares me even more.

You do realize that apple does the same thing... and the just about any app you install on your iphone can and probably does the same thing as well... you just don't know it... I realize that ignorance is bliss... but at some point, you have to realize that all those apps on your phone is doing the same thing. Actually you can probably tell which apps are doing by simply installing the app on your Android phone. At least on Android I get a list of permissions that the app "needs", like "reading your private information", or "read and write access to your contact data"... I can choose to NOT install or use apps that have those permissions.. Good luck deciphering that on the iphone.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stuckless

How is free vs paid relevant... users are users?? Unless you mean that by shear sales volume, if I'm going to create a paid App, I should target iphone, since there is better chance that people will pay for it. (is that the point?)

Exactly the point I don't expect a good sage iphone/ipad/android app to be free I definitely wouldn't code one for free.

Originally Posted by stuckless

You do realize that apple does the same thing... and the just about any app you install on your iphone can and probably does the same thing as well... you just don't know it... I realize that ignorance is bliss... but at some point, you have to realize that all those apps on your phone is doing the same thing. Actually you can probably tell which apps are doing by simply installing the app on your Android phone. At least on Android I get a list of permissions that the app "needs", like "reading your private information", or "read and write access to your contact data"... I can choose to NOT install or use apps that have those permissions.. Good luck deciphering that on the iphone.

I realize that and also touche I have read many reports that android (google) and its apps are also not telling the truth on reading your private information and such. Some apps report it some don't no enforcement from what I have read. I am more talking Google's strategy in general to me they are as bad if not worse than facebook.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Exactly the point I don't expect a good sage iphone/ipad/android app to be free I definitely wouldn't code one for free.

Really? You spend 100s of hours doing SageTV stuff for free, but you wouldn't build an iphone app for free? I guess you have your reasons. (I would, on the other hand, produce an android app for free... but then again, I also produce sagetv apps/plugins for free, so no surprise there). Now, that being said, I'm saying that I wouldn't also build an Android app and charge for it, which I probably will do as well.

I realize that and also touche I have read many reports that android (google) and its apps are also not telling the truth on reading your private information and such. Some apps report it some don't no enforcement from what I have read. I am more talking Google's strategy in general to me they are as bad if not worse than facebook.

I'm not sure you understand... and certainly there is no touche. I'm not saying that google and android apps are NOT harvesting information... In fact, I'm saying they are. But, given your previous comment about google harvesting information, I concluded that you were making a point, that iphone apps and apple, does not.

The difference is that while an android app will harvest information, I have the option to KNOW that before I install it. You don't have that option on the iphone. Many people think that because Steve personally reviews every iphone application, then they don't harvest information. Apple's Privacy Statement is very clear from their point of view... They track your habbits. And, so does some iphone apps. You'll have to guess which ones, though.

As a simple demonstration... There is a popular app for both iphone and android, called, 'Backgrounds' (iphone, android). When you install this app on your iphone, it just installs. When you install this app on your android phone, your are in for a rude awakening....

Here are the permissions that it needs (keep in mind this app simply provides backgrounds for your phone)
* Network communications (full internet access)
* Your Personal Information (read contact data, write contact data)
* Storage (modify/delete SD card contents)
* Phone calls (read phone state and identity)
* System Tools (prevent phone from sleeping)
* Network Communicatio (view network state)
* System Tools (set wallpaper)

Now, I'm not sure about you... but when I see "Your Personal Information (read contact data, write contact data)", as an application permission, I get nervous. Why does a wallpaper app require access to not only read my contacts, but also to write to them as well??. The app also requires access to the internet, fine, it's probably doing that to download new wallpapers... but combine full internet access with read/write contact data, and that is bad. If I choose to install this application, then I can't really say how this application is evil because it's harvesting my information and my contacts, since it made it pretty obvious when I installed it. On the other hand, if I were an iphone user and I installed this app, I'd be removing it pretty quickly, since you bet it's reading (and maybe writing) your contact data and with full internet access... it's now on server in the world

I'm not saying this is a typical use case, but no application on android "steals" my information. I grant the application access to do so. I laugh when I see statements like, "##% of android apps is leaking information". How is it "leaking" when the app told what it was doing to begin with??

As Public Corporations, Apple and Google, have a responsibility to make money. Google does so by selling advertising. There no surprise there. To sell ads, Google provides a set of "free" services. Those services include gmail, calendars, google docs, etc. If I choose to use them, then I'm agreeing to allow google to track certain information about my habbits, and they are not "sneaky" about it... They pretty much come out and tell you. Apple, MS, and every other company that offers an online service is doing the same. Just read the Apple privacy policy. They will share your personal information with "partners". They will harvest information from all apple services include iphone, itunes, etc.

So, in summary, my point is really... When comparing google and apple in terms of "phones"... bringing up one vs the other in terms of "personal information" is not really an argument. They both harvest information. End of story. We either choose to accept it, or not.

[Suntan]

Just fyi, the “free” Play On app requires you to buy the Play On server app for your computer to run it. It is a “feature” that makes the Play On (computer) program more desirable.

As such, it isn’t free. Nor is it strictly something that will make money based directly on the merits of a particular app store group.

In any case, for someone that doesn’t really care about Apple or Andriod, I think a generic HTML5 based solution would be ideal for making the most people happy.

-Suntan

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Really? You spend 100s of hours doing SageTV stuff for free, but you wouldn't build an iphone app for free? I guess you have your reasons. (I would, on the other hand, produce an android app for free... but then again, I also produce sagetv apps/plugins for free, so no surprise there). Now, that being said, I'm saying that I wouldn't also build an Android app and charge for it, which I probably will do as well.

Yeah that is what I am saying If I was doing an Iphone app it most certainly would not be free as to me that is a different place than the stvi work I do today, by the same token I would happily pay for a GOOD well written and well ui Driven Mobile app.

Originally Posted by stuckless

So, in summary, my point is really... When comparing google and apple in terms of "phones"... bringing up one vs the other in terms of "personal information" is not really an argument. They both harvest information. End of story. We either choose to accept it, or not.

Oh agreed I know they both share information *way too much. My argument was google tries to say they show you what apps and information a given app shares/access when in fact it has been shown they don't and this is not enforced. So why apple doesn't show you anything they share, Google tries and gives a false since that they are when in fact they are not always saying what a app is doing (I think from my reading it is more the devs not revealing what they are doing not so much google.

But in the end I am not anti Android or Apple they both have their pluses and minuses. I wish more innovation was being done to be honest instead of all phone companies offering the same product now adays, but I digress there.

[Opus4]

Wow... all this from a spammer resurrecting the topic this morning.

- Andy

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Wow... all this from a spammer resurrecting the topic this morning.

- Andy

I know, I know (But I get so irritated by the types of comments, that plucky stated )

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

My argument was google tries to say they show you what apps and information a given app shares/access when in fact it has been shown they don't and this is not enforced. So why apple doesn't show you anything they share, Google tries and gives a false since that they are when in fact they are not always saying what a app is doing

And despite Andy's objection : ) .... Plucky, as person that has actually written a number of android apps... that is not the case. In fact, I have accessed "protected" apis, ie, contact info, device id, etc, and when I do, if my application doesn't have access... it basically craps out. (not very elegant, I might add). Perhaps you can share your experiences here, since you've seemed to have stumbled upon something that I have not. I think what you are referring to, is again, cases where the developer has stated that they use permissions, and the end user has totally ignored that fact, installed the app, and has had their information harvested. But, if you have sources, or experience to show otherwise, then I'm all ears, since I'm the process of writing yet another app.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I know, I know (But I get so irritated by the types of comments, that plucky stated )

I hope you know I am not meaning to irritate you or anyone else just give my penny thought.

Originally Posted by stuckless

But, if you have sources, or experience to show otherwise, then I'm all ears, since I'm the process of writing yet another app.

I don't have any first hand experience as stated I was just baising this off a couple of articles I have read. (I know don't believe everything you read). I will see if I can find the articles but they were basically saying that google wasn't telling the truth on a couple of apps and what data they accessed.

cheers and I will crawl back in my hole.