Phoenix Screen Shot Sneak Peak

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by emotionnotion

Looks great to me. Increases the WAF and will help me find things for the kids from the 100s of episodes they have.

Can't it.

What integration are you planning with MyMovies as this is the other major experience for me on the platform at present?

you probably know that MyMovie doesn't use Phoenix fanart, well it does, but limited to the backgrounds, all the other metadata are in separate files and not in the wiz.bin like BMT/Phoenix does...and to be quite honest this is a real shame as like you I'm very keen on using SMM, but the thought of redoing 2000+ DVDs metadata kills me...

[bialio]

MyMovies will work file with Phoenix - there will be some integration required at some point but just because they are getting metadata from different locations doesn't mean it won't work.

You could run Phoenix UI + MyMovies but have the metadata provided by Ortus if you wanted to - and some might

btl.

[routerunner]

You could run Phoenix UI + MyMovies but have the metadata provided by Ortus if you wanted to - and some might

...I'm probably completely wrong, but this involves triplication of the same metadata, wouldn't be more simple to use one source of metadata? Don't get me wrong and I don't want to minimise all the fantastic work you guys are doing, but at the end of the day Phoneix/SMM/Ortus/??? are graphical front end to the metadata provided by SageTV and stored in the wiz.bin; as software engineer myself I wouldn't go into trouble to reinvent a new source of metadata if I already got one which is reliable, debugged and accessible via clean API interface, does make sense?

[bialio]

I'm not saying it's the recommended setup, but nothing would preclude anything from working just because there are 3 sources of data......

btl.

[routerunner]

I'm glad I made the decision while ago to stick with BMT/Phoenix as I can wait to use what you guys are making for the community...BTW have you guys some preview of the Movie/Music/Photo sections....OK, all right, I know, stop barking and just seat/wait/see...

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by bialio

MyMovies will work file with Phoenix - there will be some integration required at some point but just because they are getting metadata from different locations doesn't mean it won't work.

You could run Phoenix UI + MyMovies but have the metadata provided by Ortus if you wanted to - and some might

btl.

Just to clarify this I will make mymovies work with the phoenix STV (will require some work on my part to remap everything to their stv calls but not too much.)

Also you can't use phoenix or ortus metadata in MyMovies just wanted to re clarify that as the statement there claims it can and that is not possible.

You can however like bailo said use mymovies to provide metadata to the core sagetv database however fanart from mymovies will not be pulled into ortus or phoenix unless they chose to or I decide to right a implementation class for them. (outside of my SMM interface that is.)

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by routerunner

...I'm probably completely wrong, but this involves triplication of the same metadata, wouldn't be more simple to use one source of metadata? Don't get me wrong and I don't want to minimise all the fantastic work you guys are doing, but at the end of the day Phoneix/SMM/Ortus/??? are graphical front end to the metadata provided by SageTV and stored in the wiz.bin; as software engineer myself I wouldn't go into trouble to reinvent a new source of metadata if I already got one which is reliable, debugged and accessible via clean API interface, does make sense?

It does you are correct but options are also good things there is no reason you have to run them all.

MyMovies is meant just for my interface but my interface will be brought into the phoenix STV just like it is the default and will be ortus.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by routerunner

...I'm probably completely wrong, but this involves triplication of the same metadata, wouldn't be more simple to use one source of metadata? Don't get me wrong and I don't want to minimise all the fantastic work you guys are doing, but at the end of the day Phoneix/SMM/Ortus/??? are graphical front end to the metadata provided by SageTV and stored in the wiz.bin; as software engineer myself I wouldn't go into trouble to reinvent a new source of metadata if I already got one which is reliable, debugged and accessible via clean API interface, does make sense?

SageTV doesn't actually provide metadata... you still need processes to actually get that metadata from some external source, such as imdb, tvdb, etc, and then populate the sagetv system. Even with that, Sage doesn't natively support all metadata fields that you'd need, but at least they do provide a way to store custom metadata fields. And, it wasn't until Sage7 that a developer had a nice clean way to actually update Metadata in the wiz.bin. In bmt (for sage6), I used so many hacks to get things working, it would make a grown man cry

That being said, the Phoenix metadata apis do fetch metadata from external sources and it populates the wiz.bin directly, which is clean, and results in less duplication. But, fanart is another story. There is nothing in sagetv about handling fanart, so each system, phoenix, ortus, mymovies, etc will have their own preference on how it should be done.

I agree that there is overlap in the 3 projects... but at the end of the day, choice is good, and progress happens simply because there is choice. 3 projects means 3 different design goals, engineering goals, etc.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I agree that there is overlap in the 3 projects... but at the end of the day, choice is good, and progress happens simply because there is choice. 3 projects means 3 different design goals, engineering goals, etc.

perfectly stated

[routerunner]

...three times debugging...

Originally Posted by stuckless

That being said, the Phoenix metadata apis do fetch metadata from external sources and it populates the wiz.bin directly, which is clean, and results in less duplication. But, fanart is another story. There is nothing in sagetv about handling fanart, so each system, phoenix, ortus, mymovies, etc will have their own preference on how it should be done.

...you've got exactly my point, what if people doesn't want the fanart (covers+background)? What if people just want a better, easier, clean, intuitive interface? Why I cannot use SMM and its UI without be obliged to install/configure MyMovie? I will perfectly happy to use SMM without any Background, and just with the "folder.jpg", but with the usability and intuitive interface only SMM can provide so far, even my dog can use it

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by routerunner

...you've got exactly my point, what if people doesn't want the fanart (covers+background)? What if people just want a better, easier, clean, intuitive interface? Why I cannot use SMM and its UI without be obliged to install/configure MyMovie? I will perfectly happy to use SMM without any Background, and just with the "folder.jpg", but with the usability and intuitive interface only SMM can provide so far, even my dog can use it

Because it is called "MyMovies" meaning it was built for that specifically so they are one and the same that is why it only works when using their collection manager

I could have and may one day support the default db (probably will but way off in future). but then the features will be pretty limited as just the core will pretty much remain with out all the advance searches/filters and such that are available through MyMovies only.

My main decision for not writing to the DB was to not interfere with BMT or Ortus or the default. Could I have written the code to not interfere and write to the default db absolutely but it would have taken more time I didn't have currently. Plus I am more comfortable with SQL databases then sage and that is just my preference.

No sorry back on topic please post in the sub forum this forum is for the great work phoenix guys are doing not me

[pjpjpjpj]

Back on topic... looks awesome!!

A couple of questions that popped into my head - and please don't take this as criticism, because it looks great - I'm just curious:

1) How are you handling current recordings vs. archived recordings? More specifically, how would you get to archived recordings? Will there be a selection within, maybe, "Admin Tools", that determines whether that menu item on the "Info key" popup is "current", "archived", or "all"?

2) Are the menus going to be user-configurable at all? For example, will we be able to determine what "shortcuts" are on the pop-up menu that appears when you hit "Home"? Or at least be able to rename them or remove them?

3) Will we be able to determine a default view and path for, say, videos? For example, when I had v6 and nielm's DCM, I made a main menu link (called "DVD Collection") to take me, in "folder view", straight into a single folder that had my DVDs organized into folders by genre. Now, in v7 default (no menu customizing yet), when you click "Videos" and choose folder view, it shows you every folder you have that has videos in it, all in one big list. I don't like that.

4) Will there be the ability to add submenus or screens? And add shortcuts to them from one of the default menus? Example: in v6/DCM, I had a text file reader that I linked to my infopopup log file, and created a menu item called "Caller ID Log" (so I could see who had called recently). I also converted my Windows address book to a text file and had a menu item for "Address book" that I could pull up in Sage. And, of course, there were plugins like the "Weather Report Suite" and "MovieTimes" that required adding menu items to get to them. It would be great to be able to have these again.

As you can tell (by #2, 3, and 4), I'm really missing nielm's DCM.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

1) How are you handling current recordings vs. archived recordings? More specifically, how would you get to archived recordings? Will there be a selection within, maybe, "Admin Tools", that determines whether that menu item on the "Info key" popup is "current", "archived", or "all"?

Phoenix has it's own VFS (Virtual File System). Things like "recordings", "videos", "archived recordings", etc are all named views. So, in theory, anybody can choose to replace those views (in a custom xml file) with whatever they want to show for those views. Or, you can create your own views, with very specific filter/sort/group options, etc. The views are all user configurable.

2) Are the menus going to be user-configurable at all? For example, will we be able to determine what "shortcuts" are on the pop-up menu that appears when you hit "Home"? Or at least be able to rename them or remove them?

Phoenix has it's own dynamic menus (configured via separate xml files). A user can edit those menus as see fit. Dynamic menus have some of the features that are found in nielm's dynamic menus, but it also has other features as well.

3) Will we be able to determine a default view and path for, say, videos? For example, when I had v6 and nielm's DCM, I made a main menu link (called "DVD Collection") to take me, in "folder view", straight into a single folder that had my DVDs organized into folders by genre. Now, in v7 default (no menu customizing yet), when you click "Videos" and choose folder view, it shows you every folder you have that has videos in it, all in one big list. I don't like that.

Given that you can configure the menu, i'd say yeah, you can probably do this. But over and above that, I'm not sure if there will configuration options that enable a default view in the ui or not.

4) Will there be the ability to add submenus or screens? And add shortcuts to them from one of the default menus? Example: in v6/DCM, I had a text file reader that I linked to my infopopup log file, and created a menu item called "Caller ID Log" (so I could see who had called recently). I also converted my Windows address book to a text file and had a menu item for "Address book" that I could pull up in Sage. And, of course, there were plugins like the "Weather Report Suite" and "MovieTimes" that required adding menu items to get to them. It would be great to be able to have these again.

Phoenix menus can have sub menus, and associated menus.

On a side note about Phoenix... Phoenix consists of an api, services, and a ui. Different plugins can depend on different levels of phoenix. For example, our Phoenix UI will depend on the core services, since they are required for us. But other plugins, such as bialio's fanart plugin, only depends on the phoenix-api, since it only needs access to the fanart/metadata apis. Once phoenix is released, different plugins can use the API in their own needs. ie, if someone wants to create another media browser plugin using the phoenix vfs, then they can do so, but the end user is not required to also install the phoenix ui. Or, dynamic menus can be added to the core stv, if someone wanted to write an implementation using the phoenix dynamic menu apis... and again, depending on the phoenix api doesn't mean that you need to install the phoenix ui (although I recommend that you do ). To date, many of the apis in phoenix are not released. The reason for this, is that as we implement various features, we sometimes change the API. But once phoenix is released, the apis are fair game to anyone.

[bialio]

But once phoenix is released, the apis are fair game to anyone.

Except Plucky.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by bialio

Except Plucky.

Guess I will stop making a tv app then....

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by bialio

Except Plucky.

[Brent]

It's beautiful. Looks like there is a LOT to Phoenix. Love it!

[pjpjpjpj]

That all sounds great, if not a little over my head (where's the emoticon for watching info sail over your head?).

If I translate your post correctly, stuckless, it sounds like, at release time, you would need to know XML to customize menus and add screens and such, and phoenix will not come with a "menu customization" function per se.... But phoenix will be set up in a way where people with programming knowledge (and Studio knowledge) can create plugins allowing various clever ways of UI customization (such as how nielm's original one worked with copy/pasting)?

Is that right, or am I confused?

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

That all sounds great, if not a little over my head (where's the emoticon for watching info sail over your head?).

If I translate your post correctly, stuckless, it sounds like, at release time, you would need to know XML to customize menus and add screens and such, and phoenix will not come with a "menu customization" function per se.... But phoenix will be set up in a way where people with programming knowledge (and Studio knowledge) can create plugins allowing various clever ways of UI customization (such as how nielm's original one worked with copy/pasting)?

Is that right, or am I confused?

Phoenix may actually come with ways to customize views/menus from within the UI. (that's not my area )

But, if it doesn't come with that, then people would be able to customize views and menus by manually editing the XML files

[bialio]

Couple more screen caps for your enjoyment. These are the other two options for the first screen you see in Phoenix - we are calling it the Landing Zone. Both of these are a lot more minimalistic than the Boxee version - for people who like simple and not a lot of clutter.

HText - made famous by SageMC and some little known upstart called XBMC?


Vertical-style - pretty standard.


The Serenity Skin (any SageMC'ers out there will recognize the cows and the orange!) is also in use for these shots. This is not the default skin in Phoenix, just one that ships with it

btl.