How to get stutter-free VC1 bluray disc playback in Windows client?

[mkanet]

As some people know, even when you set:

"EnableSageTVStreamDemux"=dword:00000000

SageTV will still force you to use it's demux filter for bluray disc playback (and live TV as well). Unfortunately, there seems to be a bug when using the sageTV demux with with "WMVideo Decoder DMO" or "MPC - Video decoder" for VC-1 bluray discs, ISO's, BD folders which causes stuttering or skipping of frames.

This issue doesnt exist when using other splitters (LAV/Haali) in sageTV single media file VC1 playback (when using above registry setting) or outside sageTV since LAV/Haali have provisions made to accommodate this kind of problem.



This issue was on sageTV's todo list on their demux; and, could reproduce the problem. Unfortunately, it wasn't fixed before being bought by Google.

However, I VERY vaguely remember the engineer had told me that it might be possible to find a VC1 decoder that had the fix inside it instead of the splitter. Unfortunately, I haven't had luck with "MPC video decoder" or with "WMVideo Decoder DMO". Has anyone tried a VC1 decoder that can tolerate the sageTV demux filter better in respect to this issue? Or, perhaps a way to use the filter of my choice for bluray disc playback?

The only way I know how to fix this is to remux the m2ts file(s) to MKV; which would allow sageTV to use the system splitter (in my case, its LAV).

Thanks,
-Michael

[panteragstk]

The only way I know of to fix the problem is to rip to .mkv. I gave up trying anything else. Maybe try ffdshow or mpc-hc. Even arcsoft tmt decoder might work.

[mkanet]

Thanks for replying. I actually mentioned the MPC decoder twice in my post.

The decoders that can't handle the sageTV splitter is:
1. MPC standalone decoder
2. Arcsoft video decoder (TMT 3)
3. WMVideo Decoder DMO
4. Cyberlink VC-1 Decoder (PDVD8) <--requires PDVD splitter

I've already learned to accept that I need my extenders to playback VC1 discs as well as discs that need subtitles. However, I thought maybe someone might have found a VC1 decoder that works with the sagetV splitter by now.

Thanks again for replying.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

The only way I know of to fix the problem is to rip to .mkv. I gave up trying anything else. Maybe try ffdshow or mpc-hc. Even arcsoft tmt decoder might work.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Thanks for replying. I actually mentioned the MPC decoder twice in my post.

The decoders that can't handle the sageTV splitter is:
1. MPC standalone decoder
2. Arcsoft video decoder (TMT 3)
3. WMVideo Decoder DMO
4. Cyberlink VC-1 Decoder (PDVD8) <--requires PDVD splitter

I've already learned to accept that I need my extenders to playback VC1 discs as well as discs that need subtitles. However, I thought maybe someone might have found a VC1 decoder that works with the sagetV splitter by now.

Thanks again for replying.

What about ffdshow?

[mkanet]

Honestly, I can't stand ffdshow. Unless someone has verified that it's video decoder definitely plays back smooth VC1 WITH sageTV's demux/splitter under sageTV bluray disc playback, it's not something I care to install. If it was a single file filter/decoder, I would definitely try it.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

What about ffdshow?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Honestly, I can't stand ffdshow. Unless someone has verified that it's video decoder definitely plays back smooth VC1 WITH sageTV's demux/splitter under sageTV bluray disc playback, it's not something I care to install. If it was a single file filter/decoder, I would definitely try it.

Do you use an nvidia video card? If you do then the LAV CUVID decoder is awesome. I used it for VC-1 (with mkv though). Worth a try.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Honestly, I can't stand ffdshow. Unless someone has verified that it's video decoder definitely plays back smooth VC1 WITH sageTV's demux/splitter under sageTV bluray disc playback, it's not something I care to install. If it was a single file filter/decoder, I would definitely try it.

What's the beef with ffdshow? In most cases, it just works. It now also has DXVA support for VC-1 and H.264, so it's not all software like it used to be.

[mkanet]

Thanks. I haven't followed LAV in a few months. I didnt know they have a video decoder now. I'll give it a shot.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Do you use an nvidia video card? If you do then the LAV CUVID decoder is awesome. I used it for VC-1 (with mkv though). Worth a try.

[mkanet]

Actually, it's just a personal preference. I don't like the idea of a single piece of software presuming by default it should take over ALL directshow audio/video decoding on my entire machine. I already have all my favorite DS decoders in place (ie, CoreAVC cuda for H.264, Arcsoft HD for DTSMA/TrueHD, MPC video for misc, etc, etc). I most likely wouldnt install FFdshow and disable all audio/video decoding except for VC1.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

What's the beef with ffdshow? In most cases, it just works. It now also has DXVA support for VC-1 and H.264, so it's not all software like it used to be.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Actually, it's just a personal preference. I don't like the idea of a single piece of software presuming by default it should take over ALL directshow audio/video decoding on my entire machine. I already have all my favorite DS decoders in place (ie, CoreAVC cuda for H.264, Arcsoft HD for DTSMA/TrueHD, MPC video for misc, etc, etc). I most likely wouldnt install FFdshow and disable all audio/video decoding except for VC1.

It doesn't presume anything. The great thing about it is that it can be configured to provides services to only the codecs you want. There are many formats that it supports that aren't even enabled by default. I see no reason NOT to install it for your VC-1 support, and VC-1 support, just because it also could work with other codecs as well.

[mkanet]

I'm very familiar with how it works. It presumes there's a need for it to take over decoding pretty much ALL commonly used audio video formats. I think it would be pretty hard to convince me it doesn't do that. Anyway, a friend is already trying it's VC1 decoding with the sageTV demux. If it works for him, I'll probably use it just for VC1.

panteragstk: The latest LAV CUVID decoder does a worse job with VC1 (than other VC1 decoders) when used with sageTV demux. At this point, I'm guessing there's a small chance FFdshow would work any different than all the other decoders.

Anyway, I already have a working solution (to rip VC1 bluray discs to MKV). So, any further time spent on this would most likely be a waste of time. It's relatively rare that I run into VC1 discs anyway.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

It doesn't presume anything. The great thing about it is that it can be configured to provides services to only the codecs you want. There are many formats that it supports that aren't even enabled by default. I see no reason NOT to install it for your VC-1 support, and VC-1 support, just because it also could work with other codecs as well.

[Fuzzy]

I don't think there's a codec out there that DOESN'T set it at the currently highest 'normal' priority +1 when it is installed. That is not where I ever leave it, and I always drag the ffdshow merit down from 'ffdshow default' to 'normal'. I have all ffdshow codecs enabled, and anything that I want to run NOT through ffdshow, I set at a higher merit. ffdshow then works as a catch all for all other formats out there. Works quite well. On the audio side, there really isn't another audio codec that provides you the customization that ffdshow provides.

My main point, was if you hate codecs, why have so many installed? I use what comes with windows, ffdshow, and reclock, and I can playback everything smoothly.

[7up]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I don't think there's a codec out there that DOESN'T set it at the currently highest 'normal' priority +1 when it is installed. That is not where I ever leave it, and I always drag the ffdshow merit down from 'ffdshow default' to 'normal'. I have all ffdshow codecs enabled, and anything that I want to run NOT through ffdshow, I set at a higher merit. ffdshow then works as a catch all for all other formats out there. Works quite well. On the audio side, there really isn't another audio codec that provides you the customization that ffdshow provides.

My main point, was if you hate codecs, why have so many installed? I use what comes with windows, ffdshow, and reclock, and I can playback everything smoothly.

at this risk of admitting that I'm no expert at using ffdshow, can I ask how it should be configured for use with vc1 playback in sagetv? sagetv sees it as an installed filter however vc1 playback still isn't great which leads me to believe there is more than just installing ffdshow. i currently use ffdshow for bdrebuilder which I don't believe should screw things up for sagetv but would like to configure it for smooth vc1 playback if its possible.

MPC filters would seem like a great option as vc1 discs playback fine using MPC player, however when they are registered as standalone filters, playback in sagetv is judder city.

[mkanet]

7up, the VC1 filter is set in sageTV/setup/detailed settings Video/Audio/VC-1 Video Decoder Filter. SageTV will try to use that filter for vc1 video. The problem is even if you use a decoder that works perfectly outside sageTV, it still will most likely not work inside sageTV (this includes the latest MPC-HC standalone and WMVideo Decoder DMO. The problem appears to be in the sageTV splitter; which we're forced to use for bluray disc or m2ts playback (not to be confused with mkv playback). What I was hoping to find is a decoder which may "tolerate" sageTV's splitter better in respect to framerate/timing. Unfortunately, there's no way to force sageTV to use a different demux for m2ts/bluray playback; even with the above-mentioned registry setting. There was one way to completely force sageTV to use a specific filter other than "MpegDeMux.ax", however, that broke live TV playback.

Originally Posted by 7up

at this risk of admitting that I'm no expert at using ffdshow, can I ask how it should be configured for use with vc1 playback in sagetv? sagetv sees it as an installed filter however vc1 playback still isn't great which leads me to believe there is more than just installing ffdshow. i currently use ffdshow for bdrebuilder which I don't believe should screw things up for sagetv but would like to configure it for smooth vc1 playback if its possible.

MPC filters would seem like a great option as vc1 discs playback fine using MPC player, however when they are registered as standalone filters, playback in sagetv is judder city.

[craigap]

I have messed with this issue for quite a while but have since given up. All VC-1 Decoders I've tried when used jin conjunction with the Sage splitter failed to give proper playback. I was going back and forth with sage on a fix for this but like you said they were bought out before they fixed it. They did tell me how to use a different splitter, but there is a catch:

You can set this registry value as a string to be the GUID of the DirectShow
demux filter you want to use:

HKLM\Software\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow\CustomDemuxGuid

then it'll use that filter instead for any MPEG content (which includes TV
recordings and BDMVs, except DVDs). What will not work is if you try to
watch anything while it is recording; playback will end up stopping early if
you do that.

And usage of this setting is not supported in any way aside from us
indicating that it exists.

Then best my playback gets is with the DMO decoder.

Anyone Pulling out Stutter free VC-1 playback (nonMKV) with sheer CPU horsepower with the Windows DMO decoder? I obviously can't do it with my rig.

[mkanet]

I dont think just "sheer CPU horsepower" will make it work. The issue appear to be related to framerate and timing. The odd thing is the person I was working with (probably the same person who you talked to at sageTV support) seemed to think that the problem is " ...in the DMO decoder, which can't handle VC1 frame rate/timing right". If that were the case, we would have found a decoder by now that works. However, I believe him that it's related to "frame rate/timing".

For whatever it's worth I emailed sageTV support just now asking if there are any settings (documented or hidden) in:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\Common\DSFilters\MpegDeMux that would affect framerate/timing/timestamp handling etc (other than the buffer settings we see now). Maybe there's a setting similar to the one I see in LAV splitter; just hidden.

Originally Posted by craigap

Anyone Pulling out Stutter free VC-1 playback (nonMKV) with sheer CPU horsepower with the Windows DMO decoder? I obviously can't do it with my rig.

[Fuzzy]

Personally, I just use this, and it plays perfectly...

[panteragstk]

I've messed with this to no end. I gave up and vc-1 is used inside mkv only. m2ts never worked and it is just as easy to make an mkv as it is to make a movie only m2ts. Since starting this method I haven't had video playback issues of any kind. I also use fuzzy's method of playing in an external player for my few blu-rays with pcm sound and subtitles that aren't encoded into the video stream. I may have to try those that need the external player with mkv just to see if those issues will go away with the external player. Or if someone can tell me how to make sage playback multichannel pcm properly.

[mkanet]

Panteragstk, I now have a supplemental MKVs (in addition to the respective ISO) for the few VC1 titles I have; just in case I want to play them back on my Windows client instead of on the HD300.

I currently use Arcsoft HD audio decoder to decode bitperfect DTS, ATC3, DTS-MA, TrueHD on my PC before sending it directly to my analog 7.1 speakers. It works perfectly and sounds great. This was the only way I was able to hear critical windows sounds (unrelated audio alerts) while watching a movie with mutichannel DTSMA, AC3, etc. All you need is TMT installed on your machine; or, you can install TMT 3's audio filter only (without installing TMT) using an alternate method. TMT's audio decoder when used via directshow has the same features as the full blown TMT player itself; including headphone, bass boost, SPDIF bitstreamed, PCM, etc; as long as your sound card support it. All I did was set Arctsoft HD audio as my "HD audio" filter for sageTV as well as for mpeg2 audio.

The only time I ever need to use an external bluray software player on the same PC are for movies which require subtitles.

Having said all this, not having m2ts VC1 playback on my Windows PC client isn't a significant problem for me; but very curious to know if there is a compatible VC1 decoder.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I've messed with this to no end. I gave up and vc-1 is used inside mkv only. m2ts never worked and it is just as easy to make an mkv as it is to make a movie only m2ts. Since starting this method I haven't had video playback issues of any kind. I also use fuzzy's method of playing in an external player for my few blu-rays with pcm sound and subtitles that aren't encoded into the video stream. I may have to try those that need the external player with mkv just to see if those issues will go away with the external player. Or if someone can tell me how to make sage playback multichannel pcm properly.

[Fuzzy]

I have always used the external player since I've gotten a bluray drive. Not because of playback issues, but I wanted the menus, subtitles, bdlive, and 3D... non of which are available in sage. I've never noticed any playback problems in sage, but I honestly don't know which of my bluray rips are even vc-1, as I've never looked.