How do I produce multiple variants of a Channel Lineup?

[gandalf]

I have a problem understanding how SageTV works with multiple tuners and multiple channel lineups - hopefully someone out there is more experienced in how they interwork and can help me.

I use a cable TV service (Shaw in Canada), which supplies low channels in analog form, mid channels as SD digital and high channels as HD digital. Most digital (all until recently) has been MPEG2 - but now some select new channels are being supplied in MPEG4. Here is where the complexity starts, because not all cable boxes are equal - even if they share the same channel lineup. Older cable boxes (most of the ones I use) cannot decode MPEG4. As a result, I must ensure that SageTV only tries to record an MPEG4 channel using the new cable box bought for the purpose. For now, most programs can use any cable box.

What I want to be able to do is to clone a channel lineup and split the cable boxes between the two clones with MPEG4 capable on one lineup and non-MPEG4 capable on the other. That way I can remove the MPEG4 channels from the lineup on the MPEG2-only boxes.

Currently I have the ability to differentiate in a similar way between analog and digital because the published channel lineups for my area include a "Basic Cable" and a "Digital Cable" choice, with the former only containing the basic channels (currently all analog channels are in this group). My old Hauppauge PCI tuners are set to Basic Cable and work fine. The problem right now is in the digital group, where there is only one offered lineup.

Now it is in the matching between the lineups and the EPG channel listings that I get a bit confused - because I still need SageTV to understand which transmitted channels to record (links from the EPG). However I need to understand how to create multiple channel lineups with different mixes of the same EPG channels.

The same issue will happen with OTA broadcasts, where there is one OTA lineup but I may want to produce different variants if I have multiple tuners with antennae pointing at different broadcast stations. One variant of the lineup would contain all channels broadcast from one location, while a different lineup would contain those stations broadcast from a different direction (and received via a different antenna).

If I am not explaining this well enough, please ask for clarification.

Otherwise the basic question is how to produce multiple copies of a channel lineup that can be editted differently to reflect which channels can be received by sources linked to that lineup.

[Slugger]

Yeah, Sage supports this. Start by configuring the lineup that supports it all (MPEG2 & MPEG4). Get that lineup/tuner configured. Then configure the MPEG2 only input. Sage will ask you to use an existing lineup or to copy an existing lineup. Choose copy and then disable the MPEG4 channels on that lineup; the first lineup won't be affected. Then you're good to go.

Warning: The one caveat of this approach is that the copied lineup won't be updated by Sage as new channels are added or channels are removed to your lineup. So if new channels are added you either need to add them to the copied lineup manually or delete the copied lineup and redo it all.

[MattHelm]

If you do this, and are running SageTV 7, there is a channel saver/restorer plugin. That will speed up and fixes that need to be done. It exports as ASCII, so you can just use notepad to edit. I used it when upgrading my systems a short time ago, saved a ton of time!

[gandalf]

Thanks Slugger for the advice. I had not noticed that option before but it looks like it will do what is needed.

[gandalf]

Thanks MattHelm foir the suggestion. I will look into it once my new configuration is stable.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Slugger

Yeah, Sage supports this. Start by configuring the lineup that supports it all (MPEG2 & MPEG4). Get that lineup/tuner configured. Then configure the MPEG2 only input. Sage will ask you to use an existing lineup or to copy an existing lineup. Choose copy and then disable the MPEG4 channels on that lineup; the first lineup won't be affected. Then you're good to go.

Warning: The one caveat of this approach is that the copied lineup won't be updated by Sage as new channels are added or channels are removed to your lineup. So if new channels are added you either need to add them to the copied lineup manually or delete the copied lineup and redo it all.

does a second tuner need to be physically installed for this process? I tried to "copy" my Colossus tuner's lineup for experimentation (I only have one Colossus at the moment), but nothing happened. Do you have to "Add New Source" first, and THEN copy an existing lineup INTO the NEW source? The manual is a little unclear here, or at least it is to me.

[gandalf]

Based on what I have found, you need to delete the source and re-add it. When you are prompted to select a channel lineup for the new source, one of the options is the "copy existing lineup" referred to.
It does work for me and I have been able to remove MP4 channels from the lineup used by the tuners that cannot handle MP4. I have also been able to do the same thing in reverse for my new tuner and set it up with a lineup containing just the MP4 channel that I want to use until I work out how to get the IR code problem sorted out so my HDPVR can change channels.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by gandalf

Based on what I have found, you need to delete the source and re-add it. When you are prompted to select a channel lineup for the new source, one of the options is the "copy existing lineup" referred to.
It does work for me and I have been able to remove MP4 channels from the lineup used by the tuners that cannot handle MP4. I have also been able to do the same thing in reverse for my new tuner and set it up with a lineup containing just the MP4 channel that I want to use until I work out how to get the IR code problem sorted out so my HDPVR can change channels.

hmmm....okay, thanks. sounds weird. I'll have to try that

[BobPhoenix]

Actually all you have to do is select your source and change it from this screen (option is highlighted to pick):


Then just select the bottom option:

[tvmaster2]

thanks, Bob...that's what I did initially, but I don't see the copied lineup anywhere. Or does it replace the lineup it was copied from?

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

thanks, Bob...that's what I did initially, but I don't see the copied lineup anywhere. Or does it replace the lineup it was copied from?

It will replace your current line for that tuner but if you have the same lineup on multiple tuners you should still have access to the original. Here let me complete the process.

After you select the "Use or Copy an Existing Channel Lineup for this Source" you get this dialog where you select the lineup you want to copy channels from:


Once you choose you will get this dialog where you tell it that you want to COPY the channels to a separately configurable lineup:


When it is finished it will tell you how many channels were copied and you must respond OK:


Notice how the "EPG lineup" has a different name on the screen now:


It use to say "Digital Broadcast - 50313" on the first screen I posted. This means it worked and the lineup is now independent from the one I copied.

Now if you were to try this on another tuner you would see it as a choice to copy:

[waynedunham]

Is there a way to easily use the copy an existing lineup to separate configurable lineup that doesn't require me to go through the entire lineup for the 2nd source to disable all the channels I can't get?

I have 2 HD-PVR's and STB's so I use the full lineup, and I want to copy that lineup to my HDHR Prime tuners. However each time I update the main cable lineup when they add/delete/move channels I have to go through the HDHR Prime "copied" lineup to disable all the channels I can't get via my CC HDHR Primes.
You would think that the only channels that should be different between Xfinity STBs and the HDHR Prime are things like HBO, etc. However even though I have no premium channels there are still almost a dozen channels that my HDHR Primes cannot get.

Scrolling through 1800 channels to figure out which ones I can and can't get with the Primes is to say the least a PITA!

Usually you'd say just use a neighboring zip code for the Primes and have it be a "real" lineup, but I can't see any neighboring zips that have the same lineup.

[KeithAbbott]

Would the Import/Export Channel Lineup plugin make things a bit easier?

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

Would the Import/Export Channel Lineup plugin make things a bit easier?

To my knowledge that wouldn't fix the issue of channels I don't get on the HDHR Prime by copying an existing lineup. It would import the full lineup that my STB's can get and I'd still have to go through the entire thing and disable all the channels I can't get.