Xbox or PS4, who's getting one?

[Evil_Attorney]

Nope, can't blame them at all. I *only* spent about $500 on my setup, but that's more than enough to tick me off. More surprised that I hadn't heard anything about this until now.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

Wow, there are a lot of mad gamers on the xbox forums complaining about the lack of backward compatibility with the Fanatec wheels. Apparently the Fanatec Forza wheels will work on the PS4, which is messed up. Funny, I don't remember my CSR model being compatible with the PS3, but their website says that it is. I'm hoping that someone will create an adapter so the old controllers/wheels will work.

Well they work with PC/PS3/Xbox 360, I think the PS3 used Bluetooth, and the PS4 does as well.

Of course I can sort of see the other side of it, MS "improved" the force feedback interface on the Xbox One, so it doesn't seem like they killed backward compatibility out of spite or something:
http://www.destructoid.com/i-hope-yo...--263678.phtml

Some of the stuff sounds kinda cool.

It does suck that the old ones don't work, though in some ways what sucks more is that there's not a "cheap" alternative. It was great having a "cheap" MS wheel to go along with my GT2 wheel for when friends come over.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

Nope, can't blame them at all. I *only* spent about $500 on my setup, but that's more than enough to tick me off. More surprised that I hadn't heard anything about this until now.

Yeah, me too. I want to get the fold away one when it becomes available.

[panteragstk]

PS4 to begin with. I love the exclusive titles. I haven't cared for Halo since the first one. Forza is decent, but I've been a huge gran turismo fan since the first one. Plus, the Resistance series is awesome.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

PS4 to begin with. I love the exclusive titles. I haven't cared for Halo since the first one. Forza is decent, but I've been a huge gran turismo fan since the first one. Plus, the Resistance series is awesome.

I'm on almost the exact other side, Halo is the first shooter I ever finished I think. And since then I've finished every Halo and every Gears of War. Though given the whole wheel "situation" on the Xbone, I seriously looked at switching and getting a PS4 this time around. A couple things stopped me, firstly there just aren't any good racers for the PS4 now, or for some time, GT6 is only for the PS3, it looks like they've only now (since I had to make a decision) announced GT7 will be out on the PS4 sometime next year.

The other one was, well I guess like how there are cat people and dog people, I'm a Forza person. To me Forza has hit the perfect balance of "arcade" vs "simulation". I've played a few racing "simulators" before, and always ended up bored, I really like the accurate racing physics of Forza but like how the game itself is sort of run more in an "arcade" style, they start you with decently fun cars, and make it relatively easy to save/earn enough for better ones that you really want.

On top of that (right or wrong) when I was comparing them, it sounded like GT had different "classes" of cars (not sport compact vs supercar), some keystone cars would be modelled/rendered really well and some other ones were treated as second class citizens. Vs Forza which does a great job with all their cars and tracks. Actually one of the neatest things is they've got the 1993 Ford SVT Cobra R which is almost exactly like my car (which didn't start out life as a Cobra and is a few years older).

Guess that's why it's good there are both. And looks like I'm going to order a Thrustmaster wheel for my Xbone.

[Evil_Attorney]

If you already have a fanatec, it appears like they may be working on an xbone version which will allow you to reuse your pedals and rim. Might be cheaper than buying a whole new setup.

http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comme...lity-uncertain

[Evil_Attorney]

Here is the statement from Fanatec's Facebook page:

Why is it so difficult to make your current Xbox 360 wheels compatible to the new console?

Several people have raised their concerns and we understand your disappointment but we also hope you see that there is nothing Fanatec could have done to make your wheels compatible to the new console. Technically it is probably possible to make an adapter but any device connecting to the Xbox 360 or Xbox One (incl. this adapter) needs to have a security chip module which can only be purchased from MS. So without the permission of MS we could only "crack" the security chip and this is not only illegal but would certainly ruin our relationship to MS and other platform owners.
And we were not able to "warn" anybody about this as up to this moment it is still possible that MS changes its mind like they did on other specs of the XB1 as well. It still can happen but we want to be fair and tell you that it is not likely to happen.
We never claimed that the wheels were compatible to Xbox one and please remember that all peripherals of the first Xbox did not work on Xbox 360 either.
But even if we were able to make such an adapter, the development costs would be significant as the XB1 uses a different force feedback protocol and in our wheels the Xbox protocols and PC protocols are separated and use different communication (wireless vs. USB). Given the limited market for such a device, such an adapter would be quite expensive.
Microsoft has good reasons to skip the backwards compatibility as this allowed to implement a completely new and more powerful communication protocol. Of course they are happy to sell new controllers to you and earn money on licenses but keep in mind that a console is about plug and play. MS is very strong to provide a clear standard for controllers and make sure that all controllers work with all games of a certain genre. On other consoles it can happen that your brand new and official controller works only with one game because the communication protocols are not clearly defined from the beginning.

The only thing we can offer is to develop a wheel where you can at least use your peripherals so you don’t have to buy a complete new setup. And when this wheel is ready, we will make an attractive upgrade offer for all existing customers for sure.

This was a pretty long post with a lot of inside information but I hope you can understand the situation a bit better now.
I really appreciate your support and patience.

Best regards
Thomas

[stanger89]

Yup, I saw that, well I hadn't read it quite as carefully before. That said, I'm still guessing it's going to be a while before they have a wheel, and Forza just isn't the same without a wheel, so I'll be getting what I can get, which happens to be a Thrustmaster. I'll probably grab a Fanatec wheel when those come out since I really like those and it's great having two wheels when friends come over

[IVB]

So the angst for me is that even the ps4 would be $650 or so with just a few games. I'm getting horridly annoyed with my explosion of video sources and am exploring what HTPC stability is like nowadays. I have a handful of parts, so I could build a decent HTPC/gaming rig for $900, which is more, but I could shed a bunch of sources.

I'm also only going to be a casual gamer, I'm playing soccer 3 nights/week, kids stuff sucking up weekends, so $650 for a single-function device is a bit overkill.

Ugh, if only I made $1M/year or so...

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by IVB

So the angst for me is that even the ps4 would be $650 or so with just a few games. I'm getting horridly annoyed with my explosion of video sources...

Why is that?

I'm also only going to be a casual gamer, I'm playing soccer 3 nights/week, kids stuff sucking up weekends, so $650 for a single-function device is a bit overkill.

But the question is, does a multipurpose device do anything you want better? I see this same sentiment a lot in the HTPC forums and I don't get it (well I sort of do*). The reality is if you take a step back and forget about hardware, you simply can't have everything come from one source. There's Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Vudu, Blu-ray, DVR, local media, your games. They are all logically (I don't mean that in the Vulcan way) different sources. The only thing an HTPC gets you is one physical box.

I say I sort of understand, well way back when my sources were DVR, DVDs, and ripped DVDs, I had one box for everything, it was my SageTV box and SageTV did everything. It was great, but the key there was that SageTV did everything, not that the HTPC did it all. My paradise of one logical device to do everything ended with Blu-ray when it became clear standalone players were far superior to PCs, and it fell even further apart with the proliferation of online services, until I've accepted that it's better to have multiple physic devices that provide few logical services well than one physical device (HTPC) that does all of them, well less well. And it's easier (IMO) to managed physical devices with a good universal remote than it is to manage logical services on an HTPC.

As to the question of to PS4 or not to PS4 (or to Xbox One), it really comes down to what/what type of games you like to play. Personally I just like console games better. I like Halo and Gears of war better than any shooter on the PC (or the PS*), and Forza more than any racing game on the others.

I guess what I'm saying is take a step back for a moment and stop thinking about boxes, and start thinking about the services/logical sources you want.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I guess what I'm saying is take a step back for a moment and stop thinking about boxes, and start thinking about the services/logical sources you want.

Good point. I guess I just miss SageTV spoiling me and how easy this used to be for the wife to control in the days before streaming. Right now I have:

1) HD200 - TV, DVD/BR
2) Roku - HuluPlus, Netflix, AIV
3) 3D BluRay player (friday night is 3D family movie night in the IVB household)
4) ChromeCast (GooglePlay movies, since current GTV boxes which also do above suck)

Add in
5) Gaming
6) Random website video streaming for cricket. (My Father-In-Law picks up kids 2-3x/week and brings them to our house until me or wife get home, I can keep him happier if I let him watch cricket while he's waiting)

6 video sources = complexity for wife/kids, impossible for F.I.L., even with getting CQC & a universal remote control to "simplify" it.

Android has gotten really good with voice control, if the MotoX drops in price or a tablet gets the AlwaysOn microphone, I could just connect it to CQC to auto-configure receiver/etc. The user could just say "ok jarvis, watch amazon" and I could map the services inside CQC. That could get me back to a single very simplistic physical remote.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by IVB

6 video sources = complexity for wife/kids, impossible for F.I.L., even with getting CQC & a universal remote control to "simplify" it.

I have at least that many sources and audio going through an AVR. With a Harmony remote it is very simple. Pick up remote, push the button that says "Watch TV" or "Watch Roku" or "Watch BluRay". Dead simple and all of our babysitters/nannies, etc pick it up in no time.

We have about 8 TVs around the house, almost all with multiple sources and with Harmony remotes.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by wayner

I have at least that many sources and audio going through an AVR. With a Harmony remote it is very simple. Pick up remote, push the button that says "Watch TV" or "Watch Roku" or "Watch BluRay". Dead simple and all of our babysitters/nannies, etc pick it up in no time.

We have about 8 TVs around the house, almost all with multiple sources and with Harmony remotes.

Oh, I have a $350 MX-850 URC remote control with the same thing. Where my relatives angst comes in is that after pressing the "Roku" button, it takes you to the roku screen for play/pause/etc controls. But then how do you switch to other sources? I have 10 LCD buttons, will start a new thread tonight asking all how they're creating their buttons, but what I realized is that I'm physically out of room. (I keep left column for vid sources, right column for device specific actions). Teaching people how to switch from one video source to another is...frustrating.

[wayner]

But why does the user have to know anything about video sources with a properly configured remote? They just have to be clear on what activity they want to do. So if your FIL was on the Roku but then wants to go to watch cricket on TV he just clicks the Watch TV button, he doesn't have to know anything about video sources.

[Evil_Attorney]

The only reason I care about too many sources is that my receiver's HDMI inputs are limited. My Harmony makes it very easy for my wife and relatively to figure out what they want to do, since they only need to press one button. However, on a consolidation note, the benefit to upgrading to an xbone from a 360 is that you could, theoretically, eliminate/replace your blu ray player. Since I rip all my BR movies, I barely use mine, but like to keep it around just in case.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

The only reason I care about too many sources is that my receiver's HDMI inputs are limited.

This brings up my real pain point in home electronics - Receivers (AVRs). They have become obsolete far faster than anything else that I have in my home setup. If you have a receiver that is ten years old it is probably fine for most things, except it doesn't have HDMI inputs. If you have a receiver that is about 5 years old then it is probably good except that it probably has only 2 or 3 HDMI inputs which is not enough. I have about 5 AVRs in my house but I want to get a new one because my "best" unit is a Yamaha HTR-6060 and it only has 2 HDMI inputs so I have to plug the HDMI straight into the TV with some of my sources and use an SPDIF to carry audio to my AVR.

I find that AVRs have become obsolete far faster than stuff like TVs, cable boxes, game consoles, etc. Hopefully that won't happen in the future as my new AVR will have 7 HDMI inputs, it can handle 4K signals and it doesn't look like anything will replace HDMI in the near future.

[Evil_Attorney]

Agreed about AVRs. Another pain about AVRs and game systems is that they are not smart enough to trigger the "game mode" that most TV's have, shutting off all extra processing and eliminating any lag/delay. Therefore, you almost have to connect your game system directly to the TV so that you can have separate "game" settings for that HDMI port, then SPDIF to the AVR. Not a huge deal, but it certainly complicates setup issues.

Though, on second thought, I would argue that TVs become "obsolete" quicker than receivers in a way. My 8 year old LCD TV looks pretty horrible by today's standards (it's relegated to my kid's room). I even notice a huge difference between 6 year old Sony LCD and my 3 year old Vizio LCD.

[wayner]

My main TV is a Sharp 80" that I bought about a year ago. When I first got it I had major problems playing Rock Band due to the lag until I figured out that the processing was causing a delay. I now use game mode for everything as this also seemed to be happening for Sage and other content as well.

My previous TV was a Sony 60" LCOS and I still think it looks good but since it is an obsolete technology nobody wants that type of TV.

[IVB]

Started a new thread, as this one is way off track and others may want to chime in.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...566#post559566

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Evil_Attorney

However, on a consolidation note, the benefit to upgrading to an xbone from a 360 is that you could, theoretically, eliminate/replace your blu ray player. Since I rip all my BR movies, I barely use mine, but like to keep it around just in case.

Too bad the Xbone Blu-ray player has lipsync issues

Originally Posted by wayner

This brings up my real pain point in home electronics - Receivers (AVRs). They have become obsolete far faster than anything else that I have in my home setup.

Kind of interesting and make me wonder if the whole "commodity" AVR thing is really a good one. I'm only on my third "receiver" since sometime in the late 90's. First one was a Yamaha receiver, one of the first with DTS IIRC. It served me well, through college.

At that point I went the separates route, I had (well still do technically ) an AVM20 V2, which worked quite well for a long time as well. Now I've got an AVM50V 3D, but what will probably really save me this time is I've got a Lumagen Radiance in front of that, so the AVM50V should last me until there's a new HDMI Audio solution (more than 7.1 PCM).

The really great thing is both Anthem and Lumagen offer upgrade paths so you're not SOL when something new comes out. Of course they cost quite a bit more than "mainstream" AVRs, but at the same time that discourages you from chasing "unimportant" features.

I don't know 3 Receiver/Processor and 2 amps (sold my 5ch for a 7ch) in like 20-25 years, I wonder if I've actually come out ahead vs playing the revolving receiver game...