What is your dream SageTV client?

[uggie]

Originally Posted by wayner

People want to have to use only one device/UI. If I want to watch a show or movie why should I care if it comes from a ripped DVD, a TV recording, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon or whatever and then have to choose a specific device to access that service.

That's exactly what I have with my current sage setup and the help of a Roku and an HDPVR. I just created a "Roku" channel for the HDPVR hooked up to the Roku and then hacked up the STV (that is one part of sage I really don't like) to allow the navigation commands to be passed through to an external script which then sends the command to the Roku. Since the Roku gives you all of the services you mentioned, I get them all at once anywhere I have an extender in the house.

I override some of the DVD function buttons watching that channel to allow me to execute things like the home function. There's a slight lag in the navigation due to the translations but nothing that bad unless you want to FF/RW on the Roku itself instead of using the built-in sage functions. There the latency makes it unfun. But for just cuing up something like a move to watch it's perfectly functional. The sage FF/RW/Pause just works except for some trickiness around 2hr "show" boundaries because I can't update the EPG.

[stanger89]

Doesn't that mean you still have more than one interface?

[cncb]

Originally Posted by emveepee

They are both SMP8655 based, but some of the functionality is based on what Hauppauge licensed.

Do we know what they licensed? I can't find this information on their website.

[uggie]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Doesn't that mean you still have more than one interface?

No, it all interfaces through the same sage interface. All you have to do is select the proper channel in the guide and you're on the Roku.

[stanger89]

But you still have to navigate the Roku interface, and then the various Roku Channel interfaces. Running it through Sage doesn't mean you get to use the Sage (ie SageTV interface) to select something to watch.

To me having it piped through Sage is no different than flipping to a different input, worse in fact since you have a quality loss and lag introduced.

[uggie]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But you still have to navigate the Roku interface, and then the various Roku Channel interfaces. Running it through Sage doesn't mean you get to use the Sage (ie SageTV interface) to select something to watch.

To me having it piped through Sage is no different than flipping to a different input, worse in fact since you have a quality loss and lag introduced.

That would be true with any Netflix client or Hulu or Amazon. They all have their interface to access their content which is really not much more than a grid. Here I navigate using the same remote without changing anything or swapping inputs plus it's available throughout the house wherever I have a sage client. In terms of quality you have a single generation loss and I don't even notice it. Netflix lowering bit rates has a much bigger impact.

[stanger89]

But I don't think that's what wayner or people looking for "one interface" are looking for. They're looking for one consistent skin, one consistent navigation "scheme" throughout everything, and if you look at wayner's post, to be able to access anything available without worrying about where it is (Amazon, Netflix, native Sage).

In practical terms I have the same thing you do, everything accessible via one remote*, throughout the house. The only difference is I hit a button on the remote to change to the streaming content instead of picking a "channel" in the guide. Of course since I've got a streaming device at each TV, I can stream different things to different TVs, and I don't have lag or generational losses.

When it became impossible to have everything inside Sage natively (ie everything within the same UI), the whole "one box" solution for me died, IMO it's easier, and with better overall results to just have multiple boxes that excel at their tasks and a good universal remote to tie it all together.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by stanger89

When it became impossible to have everything inside Sage natively (ie everything within the same UI), the whole "one box" solution for me died, IMO it's easier, and with better overall results to just have multiple boxes that excel at their tasks and a good universal remote to tie it all together.

+1

It's like using Playon through Sage. Awful. I'd rather have a device support Netflix or Hulu directly, even if it means changing inputs. That being said, if Sage (or whatever) could access that API natively, that would be even better, but I doubt that will ever happen. Even the mighty XBMC only has a Netflix hack.

[pjpjpjpj]

(post moved to the "SageTV Community" forum because it's a better discussion point there)

[uggie]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But I don't think that's what wayner or people looking for "one interface" are looking for. They're looking for one consistent skin, one consistent navigation "scheme" throughout everything, and if you look at wayner's post, to be able to access anything available without worrying about where it is (Amazon, Netflix, native Sage).

In practical terms I have the same thing you do, everything accessible via one remote*, throughout the house. The only difference is I hit a button on the remote to change to the streaming content instead of picking a "channel" in the guide. Of course since I've got a streaming device at each TV, I can stream different things to different TVs, and I don't have lag or generational losses.

When it became impossible to have everything inside Sage natively (ie everything within the same UI), the whole "one box" solution for me died, IMO it's easier, and with better overall results to just have multiple boxes that excel at their tasks and a good universal remote to tie it all together.

Not really sure what the "sage interface" means in that context. How would sage navigate the Netflix library in a "sage" way that's fundamentally different? The DVD library is just a list or a grid. YouTube streaming is a couplle of presets and an on screen keyboard.

Here I never leave the sage context. The generational loss is really overhyped in my opinion. I don't really notice a significant difference between a client directly attached to the screen and the single analog hop through the HD PVR. Now I do have that set to "best" quality, so perhaps there's a difference. The convenience of having a single box per screen with no context switches versus two different devices far outweighs an indistinguishable difference in image quality for me.

[7up]

Originally Posted by valnar

+1

It's like using Playon through Sage. Awful. I'd rather have a device support Netflix or Hulu directly, even if it means changing inputs. That being said, if Sage (or whatever) could access that API natively, that would be even better, but I doubt that will ever happen. Even the mighty XBMC only has a Netflix hack.

Actually there is an Amazon Prime Kodi add-on

[uggie]

Originally Posted by valnar

+1

It's like using Playon through Sage. Awful. I'd rather have a device support Netflix or Hulu directly, even if it means changing inputs. That being said, if Sage (or whatever) could access that API natively, that would be even better, but I doubt that will ever happen. Even the mighty XBMC only has a Netflix hack.

So you would rather use the satellite DVR than sage with HD PVR's? Basically you're saying it's only useful for OTA captures or cable because a single generation loss is unacceptable. I think a lot (whatever that means in the sage world) of satellite users of sage would disagree with you there. I certainly do.

[Fuzzy]

well, for me, the only negative to playon (and playlater) is that it is limited to SD when played back through sage at this point. This should be a relatively simply coding change to allow the HD stream from playon once source code is available - it is just that sage is not reporting anything other than 'Java' as it's user agent to the plex server, so it defaults to it's lower quality stream. As soon as sage starts reporting a proper user agent, it will allow us to get PlayOn to recognize that it is capable of the HD stream, and they will add the sage user agent to the white list for HD streams.

[uggie]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

well, for me, the only negative to playon (and playlater) is that it is limited to SD when played back through sage at this point.

That and there's no option for a linux sage install. http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/imag...s/confused.gif

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by uggie

Not really sure what the "sage interface" means in that context. How would sage navigate the Netflix library in a "sage" way that's fundamentally different? The DVD library is just a list or a grid. YouTube streaming is a couplle of presets and an on screen keyboard.

It means Sage themed/styled menus, the way Movies and TV are the same interface. What you've got is not in the Sage interface, the fact that you don't change inputs doesn't change that. You can't search Netflix or Hulu from Sage, you still have to switch from Sage to your Roku, just like those of us who use different inputs. Only difference is you do it via selecting a channel in Sage vs a physical input. Only you've only got one Roku for the whole house.

[uggie]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

In my opinion a lot of sat channels already look bad before they go through an HD-pvr, the bitrates being used are very low.

If there is something I really want to keep I look for Blu-rays versions, I will buy 4K versions of stuff I like when it becomes available.

Don't stream anything from Netflix then...

http://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/

[uggie]

Originally Posted by stanger89

It means Sage themed/styled menus, the way Movies and TV are the same interface. What you've got is not in the Sage interface, the fact that you don't change inputs doesn't change that. You can't search Netflix or Hulu from Sage, you still have to switch from Sage to your Roku, just like those of us who use different inputs. Only difference is you do it via selecting a channel in Sage vs a physical input. Only you've only got one Roku for the whole house.

So it's the skin that matters? There are already differences between how you handle TV and videos on sage and even bigger differences for the limited streaming support it has in YouTube. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Actually I can have as many Roku's for the house as I want. One happens to be all I need. You have to have dedicated streamers on every screen and a more complicated remote setup to talk to the different devices. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[uggie]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

I don't know what you think the actual bitrates are from satellite services but they are very low. I see lots of online content that looks better and some worse.

I mentioned if I really want something and it is available on Blu-ray that, that is my prefered method of viewing it.

http://forums.solidsignal.com/conten...ll-use-HD-Lite

Your mileage may vary, I guess. I've seen more HD channels added to the lineup without a perceived quality loss on those that were already HD. Maybe I'm just a boiling frog though.

My point was that if generational losses are a big deal, then a whole lot of Netflix streams running on native devices are going to be unacceptable as they will have less information than you consider tolerable even without the additional hop.

You want to watch Blu-ray. Great. Doesn't solve the issue of recording TV or many(most?) streaming options.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by uggie

So it's the skin that matters? There are already differences between how you handle TV and videos on sage and even bigger differences for the limited streaming support it has in YouTube. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

What I'm saying is an "interface" is the logical, visual thing you use and look at on the screen, everything being on the same TV input does not mean it's the same interface. An "interface change" is a logical thing, not (just) a physical thing, if you execute a command, regardless of whether it's changing physical inputs or starting an embedded stream, and your entire UI changes, that's an "interface change".

Just because you don't change inputs doesn't mean you don't change interfaces, you stillswitch to the Roku interface, and from there the Netflix, Hulu, etc interfaces. Note that the Roku does not have "one interface, each channel on Roku is different, although it's probably closer as most Roku channels have the same layout/menu structure, except for the newer ones.

I'm not saying this is wrong at all, I'm just saying you don't have the "one device, one UI" that some of us would like to see.

Actually I can have as many Roku's for the house as I want. One happens to be all I need. You have to have dedicated streamers on every screen and a more complicated remote setup to talk to the different devices. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I'd argue that the remote setup is easier than HDPVRs, scripts, STV mods by a long shot, and the end result is probably more usable due to not having lag, and not having each TV needing to know which Roku/channels are in use. But like I said, I'm not saying your way is wrong, just that it's not "one interface" anymore than I've got one interface since I only use one remote for everything.

[pjpjpjpj]

Uggie, I also started a discussion about this, with some of your same questions (to try to keep "sidebar" discussion of interface preference out of the thread about clients), over in the "Sage TV Community" subforum.