Hardware requirements for Sage-OS server?

[wayner]

My SageTV server is now getting somewhat long in the tooth and I am thinking that the release of the OS version of Sage is a good excuse to buy a new PC to use as a server. I would likely set this up as a test environment for SageTV8/OS and then switch this over to my main server once everything is stable and running properly.

My requirements for a Sage server in the past included firewire and room for lots of hard drives. But firewire is dying off and firewire channel tuning can't be used with a 64 bit OS. And now that 6TB hard drives are pretty competitive on a $/TB basis I don't really see needing 8 hard drives - an SSD for the OS plus two 6TB HDs for media content would be more than sufficient. I also have a WHS2011 server and I duplicate all media content (other than TV) on the WHS system.

I always liked having a decent amount of CPU horsepower to do transcoding so I would likely get an i7 CPU and that may be required if we do start shifting to UHD content and H.265 files. Although it is a bit more expensive up front it is not that expensive when amortizing over 5+ years. I have also tended to use my SageTV server for other server capabilities, like running my Ubiquiti WAP control software, Plex server, AirVideo HD server, VisibleTesla, etc.

For tuners my system will have 2-3 HD-PVRs for cable content and an HDHR for OTA content. I will likely use my USB-UIRT for tuning the cable boxes. I will be initially be using SageTV extenders as clients - I have nine TVs - two with HD300s and seven with HD200s.

So I am thinking that a system with room for about four hard drives, with a pretty fast CPU and some USB 3.0 ports. But that is pretty standard.

Is there anything else that I should be thinking about hardware-wise for a new SageTV server?

[valnar]

Almost anything Haswell will do you fine. I'm partial to ASUS and ASRock myself. Gigabyte boards have given me trouble in the past but YMMV. It may not matter, but I always pay attention to power usage and DPC latency especially when anything audio/video related. My Sage motherboard is a regular ATX, but for a server you might want to look at Micro-ATX to gain a smaller footprint, especially since Intel CPU's have sufficient video built-in for any Server use.

I'm still rocking a box running Windows 7 32-bit with 4GB RAM for all my Sage, Plex, IP Camera and other needs. It seems to fall under that envelope just fine. I have some old PCI tuners though without 64-bit drivers. I'm not sure if any amount of RAM will help with all your extenders so long as Sage is on 32-bit Java. While you specifically asked for hardware advice, also check OS compatibility for things like the USB-UIRT.

Although I wish they were quieter or slower, I heartily recommend the HGST 7200rpm 5TB or 6TB hard drives over WD or Seagate due to their market leading reliability.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by valnar

I'm still rocking a box running Windows 7 32-bit with 4GB RAM for all my Sage, Plex, IP Camera and other needs. It seems to fall under that envelope just fine. I have some old PCI tuners though without 64-bit drivers. I'm not sure if any amount of RAM will help with all your extenders so long as Sage is on 32-bit Java. While you specifically asked for hardware advice, also check OS compatibility for things like the USB-UIRT.

Unless you have older hardware that doesn't support 64-bit Windows or want to use Firewire tuning there is no reason not to go with 64-bit. Even though SageTV is "only" a 32-bit program one of the advantages of running a 64-bit OS is being able to run more at once without running out of RAM. Other than what has been mentioned, as far as I'm aware, there are no compatibility issues doing this.

I've been running SageTV on 64-bit Windows for quite some time with zero issues. Again, unless you have specific needs that require a 32-bit OS there's no reason not to go with 64-bit.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by valnar

I'm not sure if any amount of RAM will help with all your extenders so long as Sage is on 32-bit Java. While you specifically asked for hardware advice, also check OS compatibility for things like the USB-UIRT.

I am assuming that the OS version of Sage will run the 64 bit version of Java or will use other methods to overcome the limitations of the JVM crunch - like running each extender in a separate JVM. Therefore I am thinking that you may want to go with lots of RAM if you have lots of extenders.

The other thing I didn't mention above is USB type C connectors - this is something that I will want on the Mobo as hopefully they will become the standard very quickly and will become useful for attaching external hard drives, memory keys, etc.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by wayner

I am assuming that the OS version of Sage...

I'm going nuts reading these posts as "the Operating System version"... I know what it's supposed to be, but OS always means Operating System first in my mind. Can't seem to break the habit.

[bclenney]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'm going nuts reading these posts as "the Operating System version"... I know what it's supposed to be, but OS always means Operating System first in my mind. Can't seem to break the habit.

LOL! Me too. In fact, I was sitting here thinking, who said they were making a whole new Operating System? Too funny.

[Steve20A]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'm going nuts reading these posts as "the Operating System version"... I know what it's supposed to be, but OS always means Operating System first in my mind. Can't seem to break the habit.

+1. My old mind (working on operating systems since 1972) is making a slow transition to the new meaning.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wayner

I am assuming that the OS version of Sage will run the 64 bit version of Java or will use other methods to overcome the limitations of the JVM crunch - like running each extender in a separate JVM. Therefore I am thinking that you may want to go with lots of RAM if you have lots of extenders.

There's no reason to expect that sage will move to the 64-bit JVM any time too soon.

[wayner]

But what about each extender running in its own VM? Then you would want a 64 bit OS so that you could throw lots of RAM at your server.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wayner

But what about each extender running in its own VM? Then you would want a 64 bit OS so that you could throw lots of RAM at your server.

That is correct. I have always recommended a 64-bit OS for a sage server, with as much ram as you can throw at it. If nothing else, the larger cache is enough to justify 8 GB or RAM on a system that typically uses at most 2GB. I was just refuting the reasoning being to use a 64-bit JVM. There are better, more versatile ways to tackle the 'tons of extenders need tons of heap' issue.

[wayner]

But what was the advantage in SageTV 7 or earlier in a 64 bit OS. Sure you could use more RAM but how did that help you.

And there were at least two downsides to a 64 bit OS - some capture cards wouldn't work and you can't use firewire for tuning channels.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by wayner

But what was the advantage in SageTV 7 or earlier in a 64 bit OS. Sure you could use more RAM but how did that help you.

And there were at least two downsides to a 64 bit OS - some capture cards wouldn't work and you can't use firewire for tuning channels.

No direct advantage to SageTV because it is a 32-bit application. It depends on if you plan on doing anything else concurrently with running SageTV. Since most people can't afford to have a dedicated SageTV machine it makes sense to be able to do more on a computer than just sit there and wait for times to record or for users to play video.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wayner

But what was the advantage in SageTV 7 or earlier in a 64 bit OS. Sure you could use more RAM but how did that help you.

And there were at least two downsides to a 64 bit OS - some capture cards wouldn't work and you can't use firewire for tuning channels.

The specific example I listed. A large cache. This greatly increases sagetv UI performance, especially with heavy fanart UI's.

[MrD]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The specific example I listed. A large cache. This greatly increases sagetv UI performance, especially with heavy fanart UI's.

integration with redis or memcached might be a good approach to work around the java heap limits.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by MrD

integration with redis or memcached might be a good approach to work around the java heap limits.

I've used fancycache (now called primocache) very liberally on my sage server and clients for a very long time. It won't do anything to get around the heap limitations that a lot of extenders put on the server. I don't, personally, have heap issues, though, as I've only got 2 extenders, and 2-4 clients.

[bigbill]

Awesome machine, been running it for 3 weeks today. Excellent cable management and drive access for a total of 4 bays of 3.5 disks. I used one SSD for the boot on windows 8.1 64bit, and three WD 4TB Green drives. It has a Pentium dual core processor that works just fine for a server. Actually it really doesn't seem any slower that a gen 4 I5 I used on my laptop. Its also hosting my homes local Crashplan repositories running iSpy software to suck all the video from 6 outdoor IP cameras. I wouldn't want to use it as a workstation but its a workhorse for the back-end. I can't ever remember being this happy with a purchase in the past, except for my Nissan Leaf.

It comes with 4GB Ram, no Drives or OS.
It has 4 USB 3 ports, and 6 v2 ports. Comes with two SATA 6GB and two SATA 3GB ports. Boot drive is on a sata 6, the data drives are mixed on the rest. I cannot tell a difference on the spinning drives. But then I rarely have more that 3 of the 4 HD tuners recording, although the IP cameras are recording 24 hours a day. And Crashplan is running 24 hours a day.

[drvnbysound]

Originally Posted by bigbill

Awesome machine, been running it for 3 weeks today. Excellent cable management and drive access for a total of 4 bays of 3.5 disks. I used one SSD for the boot on windows 8.1 64bit, and three WD 4TB Green drives. It has a Pentium dual core processor that works just fine for a server. Actually it really doesn't seem any slower that a gen 4 I5 I used on my laptop. Its also hosting my homes local Crashplan repositories running iSpy software to suck all the video from 6 outdoor IP cameras. I wouldn't want to use it as a workstation but its a workhorse for the back-end. I can't ever remember being this happy with a purchase in the past, except for my Nissan Leaf.

It comes with 4GB Ram, no Drives or OS.
It has 4 USB 3 ports, and 6 v2 ports. Comes with two SATA 6GB and two SATA 3GB ports. Boot drive is on a sata 6, the data drives are mixed on the rest. I cannot tell a difference on the spinning drives. But then I rarely have more that 3 of the 4 HD tuners recording, although the IP cameras are recording 24 hours a day. And Crashplan is running 24 hours a day.

Not sure if you knew they were available, so just an FYI, for all of my surveillance jobs I've solely used WD Purple drives for the past couple of years. They are slightly more, but are designed to run 24/7:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-659-_-Product

Since you mentioned 4TB green drives, I posted the link to the 4TB purple, but they do offer the purple drives up to 6TB now.

[bigbill]

My three 4yo 2GB WD green drives are still working fine. I was kind of surprised they were already that old, but I looked up my order, its amazing how easy it is to look up old amazon orders, they went back to 1999 for me.