Shield vs Intel NUC as Sage Client

[fresnoboy]

Hi. I need to deploy a few new clients in the house, and while I really wanted to deploy shields because of Android TV and all the apps, Sage client playback of MPEG2 streams is still not really excellent on the Shield, and I still have UI issues with version 1.2.8 of the Android app.

I played around with the latest sage client code on windows, and it's just rock solid on playback and stability, and no UI issues. I can boot into Sage, though my other OTT sources (netflix, etc..) aren't as easily integrated as they are on the shield. I can put Chromecasts on or use the TV's builtin apps for most of these though.

I was wondering if folks here had an inexpensive NUC configuration that worked well for Sage playback? Also, has anyone run Sage client on an Intel stick PC successfully? That form factor would be nice to deploy, but I can bit the bullet I guess on a compact PC formfactor machine if needed.

thx
mike

[Zogg]

I'm using a 7th gen Core i3 NUC as my HTPC running Win 10 and SageTV and it works great. It's an impressive little box. I have PlayOn on it also and I never notice any hiccups in playback while it's downloading videos.

I bought the NUC new last year to run WMC and other things, so it's a bit of overkill for just a playback client. I'd look for a good used 3rd or 4th gen CPU NUC if you want to keep it cheap. I've also wondered about those PC stick computers, and they might work fine, but I needed some storage.

[wayner]

The other option is to buy used SageTV extenders as they still come up for sale on the forum on a regular basis.

But the advantage that you have with a full PC client is that you can use OTT services and, depending on the CPU/GPU in your client, you can use newer video formats like HEVC/H.265 and 4K/2160p video resolution.

[texneus]

Not a NUC but a run of the mill desktop Haswell generation i3 that I even under clock about 25% since it runs in a fan less enclosure. I'm not sure about newer AMDs but Intel have nailed it for this kind of work for many years now. The bigger problem will be having to put up with Windows and it's EDID weirdenss and propensity to self destruct over time.

You are correct that windows is not OTT friendly. Shield is definatly superior there. Kodi can handle some of the free services, but navigation and finding something to watch is pretty awkward. Worst case is you'll still have a shield (or Roku, or FireTV...) for OTT.

The following though intrigues me. What issues are you having? Shield is one of the few Android boxes that properly supports MPG2 playback, and it works flawless for me...and the only UI issue I have is the chintzy POS remote (although I do use Gemstone, not the default UI). The devs did well accommodating it, but just about everything requires multiple button presses to do something that isnt up/down/left/right/enter or back. I use a Flirc instead.

Originally Posted by fresnoboy

Sage client playback of MPEG2 streams is still not really excellent on the Shield, and I still have UI issues with version 1.2.8 of the Android app.

[fresnoboy]

Originally Posted by texneus

Not a NUC but a run of the mill desktop Haswell generation i3 that I even under clock about 25% since it runs in a fan less enclosure. I'm not sure about newer AMDs but Intel have nailed it for this kind of work for many years now. The bigger problem will be having to put up with Windows and it's EDID weirdenss and propensity to self destruct over time.

You are correct that windows is not OTT friendly. Shield is definatly superior there. Kodi can handle some of the free services, but navigation and finding something to watch is pretty awkward. Worst case is you'll still have a shield (or Roku, or FireTV...) for OTT.

The following though intrigues me. What issues are you having? Shield is one of the few Android boxes that properly supports MPG2 playback, and it works flawless for me...and the only UI issue I have is the chintzy POS remote (although I do use Gemstone, not the default UI). The devs did well accommodating it, but just about everything requires multiple button presses to do something that isnt up/down/left/right/enter or back. I use a Flirc instead.

I get occasional breakups on some channels. Not a big deal, but not exactly perfect. When I looked at recorded MPEG streams from Comcast, I see occasional messed up timestamps - probably from crappy compression technology they use. But generally it's pretty good. It could be an exoplayer issue - android playback frameworks are kind of messy it appears.

On PC's I never see an issue.

Does the linux client work well on a NUC? That may be the easier way to go and avoid windows painfulness.

thx
mike

[texneus]

Huh, that's interesting. When I see glitches it's identical on both systems, right down to the amount of picture missing and the pattern it shows in its place. It was very surprising to me to see how similarly DXVA and Shield hardware acceleration reacted to glitches. I have found though that using LAV + quicksync or software decoding on the PC smooths quite a bit of it out, however...but now I'm really getting off topic...

To answer your final question, I have not had any luck with place shifter on Linux. I tried on Ubuntu and had to disable 3D acceleration to get the menus to work and even then playing video just gave me sound and a black screen. I suspect linux placeshifter simply predates Intel graphics too much. Ive seen similar on windows with old video players (specifically TMT3) that worked with an older GPU. I've heard it does work with NVidia but have not confirmed...

[fresnoboy]

Originally Posted by texneus

Huh, that's interesting. When I see glitches it's identical on both systems, right down to the amount of picture missing and the pattern it shows in its place. It was very surprising to me to see how similarly DXVA and Shield hardware acceleration reacted to glitches. I have found though that using LAV + quicksync or software decoding on the PC smooths quite a bit of it out, however...but now I'm really getting off topic...

To answer your final question, I have not had any luck with place shifter on Linux. I tried on Ubuntu and had to disable 3D acceleration to get the menus to work and even then playing video just gave me sound and a black screen. I suspect linux placeshifter simply predates Intel graphics too much. Ive seen similar on windows with old video players (specifically TMT3) that worked with an older GPU. I've heard it does work with NVidia but have not confirmed...

Ah, when I was comparing windows to the Nvidia Shield app, I was comparing the Windows CLIENT to the Shield app. Not placeshifter. Windows placeshifter has some of the same issues that the Nvidia app does. the client in my experience is totally solid.

thx
mike

[wayner]

It would be really nice if Placeshifter worked properly. Client is a bit of a pain as you have to do a lot of client-side configuration that isn't necessary on Placeshifter. The downside is that Placeshifter uses up some of the JVM heap on your server but that isn't an issue if you are running the server on Linux.

[texneus]

Er, I WAS talking about the Windows client, not placeshifter in Windows. Try filing a bug report and see what the devs can do about whatever issue you have. I don't seem to have any issues so not much I can contribute other than to confirm the requested clients can work as requested...

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by fresnoboy

Does the linux client work well on a NUC? That may be the easier way to go and avoid windows painfulness...

I’ve not seen Linux Placeshifter work on any Intel HD Graphics system. No video is displayed at all.

That being said, I’ve run Server, Client, and Placeshifter on a few Zotac small-form-factor PCs with Windows 7, 8, and 10. Same deal with an Asrock BeeBox. These sub- $200 systems all support resolutions of at least 4K/60hz ...

[stuckless]

This might be a bit of a tangent, but i wonder if SageTV (client) would run on these intel boxes using ReactOS as a means to avoid the windows license but still run a windows app.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stuckless

This might be a bit of a tangent, but i wonder if SageTV (client) would run on these intel boxes using ReactOS as a means to avoid the windows license but still run a windows app.

Very interesting. I'll have to check this out.

[7up]

ReactOS project looks very cool and maybe for a client behind firewall router it would work fine but is there any increased security risk compared to real version of Windows? Cost of a Windows license is dirt cheap but I'd consider using ReactOS as base for SageTV.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by texneus

Not a NUC but a run of the mill desktop Haswell generation i3 that I even under clock about 25% since it runs in a fan less enclosure. I'm not sure about newer AMDs but Intel have nailed it for this kind of work for many years now. The bigger problem will be having to put up with Windows and it's EDID weirdenss and propensity to self destruct over time.

You are correct that windows is not OTT friendly. Shield is definatly superior there. Kodi can handle some of the free services, but navigation and finding something to watch is pretty awkward. Worst case is you'll still have a shield (or Roku, or FireTV...) for OTT.

The following though intrigues me. What issues are you having? Shield is one of the few Android boxes that properly supports MPG2 playback, and it works flawless for me...and the only UI issue I have is the chintzy POS remote (although I do use Gemstone, not the default UI). The devs did well accommodating it, but just about everything requires multiple button presses to do something that isnt up/down/left/right/enter or back. I use a Flirc instead.

my issue with the shield is the inability to get native resolution passthrough.
this degrades the video quality noticeably, to my eyes.
the hd300 is wonderful for its ability to turn off all scaling, de-interlacing, etc.
combined with turning off all similar processing by Fios, i can let the video processing be done where it is done best.........if a NUC could bring back hands-off native passthrough, i'd definitely head in that direction as it would give me both video quality and 4K capability.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by Zogg

I'm using a 7th gen Core i3 NUC as my HTPC running Win 10 and SageTV and it works great. It's an impressive little box. I have PlayOn on it also and I never notice any hiccups in playback while it's downloading videos.

I bought the NUC new last year to run WMC and other things, so it's a bit of overkill for just a playback client. I'd look for a good used 3rd or 4th gen CPU NUC if you want to keep it cheap. I've also wondered about those PC stick computers, and they might work fine, but I needed some storage.

can't we run the client under linux on a NUC?
that gets rid of the windows license issue.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by cat6man

can't we run the client under linux on a NUC?
that gets rid of the windows license issue.

There is no full client for linux, just a placeshifter.

[bigbill]

I bought the new shield a few months back to replace the Mibox. When I was using the shield on wireless it was pretty bad, choppy playback more often than not. The Mibox did not do that at all on the same WiFi. As an experiment I bought a pair of Netgear 1000v2 Ethernet over power adapters so I could try the wired connector on the shield. Now it works perfectly with my mpeg2 recordings and mp4 recordings. Pulling real ethernet thru the coach is on the todo list, but will not be a "fun" project due to very confined spaces under there. -Bill

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by cat6man

can't we run the client under linux on a NUC?
that gets rid of the windows license issue.

just to follow up and make sure i'm not missing anything, if i were to use windows on an intel NUC, would the sagetv client permit native resolution passthrough?

[Galaxysurfer]

I use an Asus vivo minipc ( similiar to a Intel nuc ) with a Minix
NEO-A3 Wireless Double Sided Air Mouse to control it. maybe you could get away with something like this ? https://www.asus.com/us/Stick-PCs/VivoStick-PC-TS10/