SageTV no longer a Secret

[stanger89]

Sorry, pun intended.

Anyway, I just stopped by Secrets of Home Theater an HiFi, and was pleasantly surprised to see they had a review of SageTV up:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...re-6-2005.html

And a positive one no less. I think this is one of the bigger (as in important) reviews I've seen of Sage, if you look at the class of products they normally check out, and the amount of respect they get, it's clear to see that it's good to be on the right side of them, and it will give Sage some great exposure to another market.

Anyway, way to go SageTV

[GbrNole]

definitely a great endorsement by the secrets crew!

[deadtoaster2]

Nice review. Hope it causes more people to become intrested in sage. I heard about it from a review on another site like that one.

[silkshadow]

There is a thriving user community forum at sagetv.com to help you with any questions or problems you may have along the way.

This is so true and one of the reasons I value Sage over any other product!

It is even frequented by SageTV developers who answer questions and solicit opinions on how to improve future releases.

Ah, huh? When has that happened?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by silkshadow

Ah, huh? When has that happened?

It has happened more often than you think...

- Andy

[PGPfan]

Andy is right, it HAS happened more often than you think. It just doesn't happen much, if at all ANYMORE. The first couple years were great, but they've been pretty scarse(sp?) in the last year or so.

-PGPfan

[Crashless]

What do you guys think I've been doing for the past 2 months?

You think I'm asking these questions about usability to be nice?

[Crashless]

yikes, didn't want that 3x6 post count...

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by Crashless

What do you guys think I've been doing for the past 2 months?

You think I'm asking these questions about usability to be nice?

Your post alludes to you working for SageTV, true? Doesn't mention that in your profile and I'm not clairvoyant.

Your questions specifically about useability must primarily be in threads others have started since you've only initiated 2 threads the past two months, neither having much to do with Sage TV useability per se'.
DivX Media format anyone?
and
Please post your .IR files on the wiki

Seems kind of like Sage TV LLC in keeping users abreast of developments most of this year. Not that it matters to me one way or the other. Overall I'm pleased with Sage performance as it is.

[Narflex]

Of course we all still check out the forums....we just also spend a lot of time writing software too.

[Crashless]

Originally Posted by mdmint

Your post alludes to you working for SageTV, true? Doesn't mention that in your profile and I'm not clairvoyant.

No, I do not work for Sage nor can I or do I speak on their behalf. I'm just working on a STV. So in a way, I am a 3rd party developer.

Your questions specifically about useability must primarily be in threads others have started since you've only initiated 2 threads the past two months, neither having much to do with Sage TV useability per se'.

I'm sure this isn't intended to be abrasive, but it strikes me as such. I've PM'd users, and posted as you deducted, in threads others have started. I'm not going to get in the habit of defending things I say around here though. So either believe me, or don't - whatever.

Seems kind of like Sage TV LLC in keeping users abreast of developments most of this year. Not that it matters to me one way or the other. Overall I'm pleased with Sage performance as it is.

It doesn't surprise me that they've decided to do this. As I said above, I can't speak for Sage, but this is my reasoning - the PC PVR space has gotten exponentially more crowded in the past year, and they are no longer a small little company working on a hobby, they're trying to build a business. No business in their right mind would telegraph their product plans to their competitors ahead of implementation - that would be suicide.

[RedR]

Heya,

I completely agree with Crashless on all counts. I've seen first hand direct involvement from developers and even SageTV staff very often. That does not say folks post with a primary account, or a well known name. Either way, weather you approve or disapprove of what you see or don’t. I know first hand that the community here is very active on both sides of the fence.
As to SageTV no longer being a secret, heh. The review was great, I just hope it gets out to the masses vs. just a handful of the DIYers. . SageTV does seem to be the best kept secret compared to the other packages out their. But then again when you consider all ends that’s just fine by me. It's a very active group, in development, all the way to the community side. Once found it’s an awesome resource. I think we all can agree there ;P

Anyway, great review, thanks for the info,
RedR

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by Crashless

I'm sure this isn't intended to be abrasive, but it strikes me as such. I've PM'd users, and posted as you deducted, in threads others have started. I'm not going to get in the habit of defending things I say around here though. So either believe me, or don't - whatever.

Late night post, wasn't meant to be offensive or abrasive, apologies.

It doesn't surprise me that they've decided to do this. As I said above, I can't speak for Sage, but this is my reasoning - the PC PVR space has gotten exponentially more crowded in the past year, and they are no longer a small little company working on a hobby, they're trying to build a business. No business in their right mind would telegraph their product plans to their competitors ahead of implementation - that would be suicide.

I'm not talking about telegraphing product path specifics or even product path vagaries. Talking about zero, total lack of communication from Sage TV LLC since 4/13/05 announcing upcoming v3 beta due out "in the coming weeks"... Granted coming weeks is vague enough to translate to years. Still would seem to be polite of Sage Officials to say something about new projections, been over 3 months. Simply saying v3 won't be out for beta testing 'till Jan '06 would be better than saying nothing IMO.

[Jere_Jones]

Maybe I can add a little bit of perspective on this.

I like to consider myself a developer and have run into missed deadlines on my own projects. I'll use my current project, ShowAnalyzer, as an example. I wanted to have a public (i.e. free) version available on July 6th. That was my deadline. I was on track to it and then I got side tracked for about a week trying to figure a way to improve commercial detection for UK recordings. Every day I though I might get it and be able to release, but every day ended in frustration. Finally I got it. The next day someone asked a very simple question: "Is there an API for ShowAnalyzer?" Umm... no. Never thought about it. But then I did think about it and thought about the massive improvements that would be made reorganizing SA just for that. I thought it would be a simple process that would take a couple of days at the most. Complication after complication after complication has brought me to 3 weeks after my deadline. Even now I hope to release the public version this weekend. Will I? I don't know, that's why I don't say "SA will be released to public beta this weekend!" I certainly hope to, but I don't want to continuously extend my "release date" (it is embarassing, after all). I figure the best option is to quietly work at it and try to get it out as soon as I can, but no sooner than it is ready. I'm sure Sage is going through the same thing.

I know Opus has repeatedly said "they're working on it". That's kind of obvious. No one here thinks that Jeff is in southern Spain taking a siesta. He (Jeff) probably doesn't know when he can get it out, but he's trying and probably getting just as irritated as you are about the delay.

I hope my story has explained how the current "delay" could have happened and maybe encourage some to cut them (and me!) a little slack.

Jere

[src666]

Originally Posted by Jere_Jones

Even now I hope to release the public version this weekend. Will I? I don't know, that's why I don't say "SA will be released to public beta this weekend!" I certainly hope to, but I don't want to continuously extend my "release date" (it is embarassing, after all). I figure the best option is to quietly work at it and try to get it out as soon as I can, but no sooner than it is ready. I'm sure Sage is going through the same thing.

But there's a difference - you are willing to tell us WTF is going on, and Sage isn't.

I'm a professional software developer, and have been for more than 20 years. Schedules slip. Problems occur. Plans change. But other than situations where the changes are dictated by a higher power, it is NEVER a surprise. You don't just wake up the day before you were going to ship and realize for the very first time "Oh, geez, I'm not anywhere near ready to ship"

Now, as to sharing information with the customers, that's a business decision, and either way you decide it can go badly. In a rapidly evolving market, you may not want to telegraph breakthrough features to your competitors.

However, by not even telegraphing parity features, by not giving your customers solid indications that you are, indeed, putting out a product that is keeping up with the times, you run the risk of your customers going somewhere else to get what they need in the meantime.

There are a TON of features that Sage could announce that wouldn't negatively impact their competitive stance in the marketplace. Most of these features would go a long way to ensure that the customers stick around until they are ready. So far, the announced features have been underwhelming. No mention of HD support (others have it or have announced it). Heck, we still don't know if Sage will finally be able to play a freaking CD!

If all they have is a linux port, an updated UI and CD/DVD burning, then I don't think there is a single Sage user who will say "Yes, that's all I needed from Sage." Personally, I doubt that will be all, but without more information we are all left groping around for rumours and innuendo.

There are always features that you would like to implement but just can't get done in time. But if they don't already know 90% of the shipping feature set, then they are so far behind that they won't be catching up anytime soon.

So just freaking announce the 50% of the 90% that would do the most good in keeping us happy, and get back to work on finishing the dang thing.

[Opus4]

Since this thread started out with a link to a SageTV review, here's a recent 'interactive' v2.2 review at boxgods.com.

- Andy

[stanger89]

Now that's a novel idea. But I couldn't screw with their color calibration

[Opus4]

Yeah, I know... I tried clicking on a couple of the menu items trying to go to a different screen.

- Andy

[fieldeffect]

Now there's a reviewer with waaaaaay too much spare time

Nick.

[PGPfan]

Did anyone else wonder what the deal was with this statement from the "Secret's...." review?

"In fact, the SageTV server allows for up to four separate TV Tuner cards."

Is this a mis-informed reviewer, a limitation on 'his' copy, a different version of Sage than what we have, or a new policy on Sage's part? Anyone have any idea?

-PGPfan