CPU Upgrade .... comments?

[srothwell]

Hi...

I currently have a ASUS K8NE-Deluxe MB with an AMD Athlon 64 2800+ CPU in my media server.

I do not want to buy another MB, Memory, Video, etc but my current MB support a maximum of a Sempron 3400+ for $65 at newegg.

Will I see enough of a performace increase with this to deal with changing out the chip and upgrading the BIOS?

And, last stupid question.... which is better Athlon or Sempron? ASUS says this MB will support up to a Athlon 64 3700+, but newegg doesn't sell that (any more?).

thanks for the help!

stacy

[GbrNole]

sempron is the budget line of athlon processors. if that sempron is a sempron 64 then it's about a wash the best bet is to go to toms hardware and look up the cpu chart and compare them for everyday htpc tasks - video encoding etc.

here look at this chart for a quick idea (this is a divx encode)

[srothwell]

Originally Posted by GbrNole

sempron is the budget line of athlon processors. if that sempron is a sempron 64 then it's about a wash the best bet is to go to toms hardware and look up the cpu chart and compare them for everyday htpc tasks - video encoding etc.

here look at this chart for a quick idea (this is a divx encode)

Hi.... your link didn't come through with the picture.....

[GbrNole]

sorry - forgot to paste the link http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html

have fun!

[blade]

I know this is very unpopular with the HTPC crowd, but personally I'd suggest overclocking. I'm not familiar with nforce3 boards, but it appears your's can run a venice core cpu which are very overclockable.

I recently purchased an Asus A8N-E (nforce4) and a couple of Athlon 64 3000s which run at 1800mhz with a 9x multipler and have 512kb of L2 cache. One will easily run at 2655mhz and the other at 2610mhz.

That is roughly a 45% overclock. I'm not exactly sure how mhz scales with the PR rating, but I believe it would be equivalent to an Athlon 64 4200 (single core, 2655mhz with 512kb L2 cache) if such a thing exists. For comparision, the Athlon 64 3800 runs at 2400mhz and has 512kb cache. Of course a similiar speed cpu with more L2 cache would have an even higher PR rating.

Out of the socket 754s at newegg this one would be the fastest after overclocking. Of course chips will vary in their overclocking ability, so I'm basing it on core type and L2 cache size only and I'm assuming the 754s will overclock much like the 939s.

[blade]

Since so many are against overclocking I thought I needed to mention that I run comskip and have been doing a lot of transcoding lately and never had any problems. My server has been running at 100% cpu usage for the last 5 hours and the the cpu temp is 48c with stock heatsink and fan running at 2100rpm. When not doing anything cpu intensive temps stay around mid to low 20s. Case temps are typically 32-36c.

[ben_95sl1]

the important question is what do you need the extra cpu power for?

[GKusnick]

I have nothing against overclocking if you know what you're doing. But it does usually require a more powerful (and therefore louder) CPU cooler. For a Sage server tucked away in a closet that may not be a problem, but for a machine in your living room, overclocking may not be the best solution.

I'm actually underclocking my client box specifically so I could use a quieter, less powerful fan on the CPU.

[Morgan111]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I have nothing against overclocking if you know what you're doing. But it does usually require a more powerful (and therefore louder) CPU cooler. For a Sage server tucked away in a closet that may not be a problem, but for a machine in your living room, overclocking may not be the best solution.

I'm actually underclocking my client box specifically so I could use a quieter, less powerful fan on the CPU.

And if you don't have good RAM, you could run into stability issues. (Did Sage lock up because of Java, or video driver, or did my memory hose up..). I'm looking to experiment with overclocking on a dev PC I have, but not my Sage server or family room client (for now).

[blade]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I have nothing against overclocking if you know what you're doing. But it does usually require a more powerful (and therefore louder) CPU cooler. For a Sage server tucked away in a closet that may not be a problem, but for a machine in your living room, overclocking may not be the best solution.

I agree that is sometimes the case and used to always be true; however, with modern cpus you don't always need more powerful cooling. It is possible that an overclocked 3000 won't put out anymore heat than a 3800. Afterall they are the same chip. It's just a matter of chip quality, which doesn't seem to be much of an issue with the Venice core.

Edit: After doing some reading it seems the Athlon 64 3700 ran at 2.4ghz with 1mb cache and was 130nm. An overclocked Venice core would require 2.6ghz to earn the same PR rating due to the reduced cache, but is 90nm. So it might actually run cooler than the "official" socket 754 3700 chip.

I'm actually underclocking my client box specifically so I could use a quieter, less powerful fan on the CPU.

I underclock my client as well, but it's an old mobile socket A and they run much hotter than the Venice. Both of my Athlon 64s are using cool and quiet so underclocking really isn't necessary since it drops down so low already.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Morgan111

And if you don't have good RAM, you could run into stability issues. (Did Sage lock up because of Java, or video driver, or did my memory hose up..). I'm looking to experiment with overclocking on a dev PC I have, but not my Sage server or family room client (for now).

As I said before I don't know anything about the nforce3, but that is not an issue with the nforce4 boards with memory multipliers. I can run my CPUs at 2600 mhz and the memory at the same speed it would if I were at the default 1800mhz. With older hardware there was a performance hit when doing this, but not with modern AMD chips.

For example default for my memory and cpu was 1.8ghz, 400mhz memory, and 200mhz "fsb" (not sure what it's actually called now). Currently I'm running at 2.65ghz, 492 mhz memory, and 295mhz "fsb". Nothing is stopping me from running the memory at 400mhz other than it's capable of +500mhz so I can't resist.

I agree overclocking isn't for everyone, but with the right hardware it is very easy to get Athlon 64 3800 and above speeds out of the 3000s.

[srothwell]

Originally Posted by ben_95sl1

the important question is what do you need the extra cpu power for?

Hmmm./.... I responded a while ago, must have been dumped during the many outages of the forum today.

Basically, I want a faster mediaserver mainly so SageTV can transcode HD matieral for playback on the MVP.

right now with my athlon I have to run in standard mode and even then it's kind of yucky. If I try high mode, forget it -- all stuttery.

Since the MB I have can handle the new CPU, I figured it was a cheap way to squeeze a little more power out without having to resort to new everything, which the CEO -- err- wife -- would never approve. She thinks Sage is a money pit as it is (!)

Stacy

[ben_95sl1]

I would 1st try to test overclock your existing cpu to see what might be possible, and to see if non-stuttery playback is plausible with that chip. I know little about your cpu, not to mention my last overclock was a pentium MMX 200mhz @225 so I have no idea how well it will work.

What cpus have others had success with (as far as requirements for hd to mvp)? The biggest disappointment for me would be to buy the fastest cpu for that board and discover it still stutters, and then have to upgrade anyway. If it were me, I'd seriously consider keeping the system as is and build a new one with a dual core, assuming you could make use of an extra pc. Once you know exactly how much horsepower you need, your decision may be made up for you.

Good luck
Ben

[trini0]

Originally Posted by srothwell

Basically, I want a faster mediaserver mainly so SageTV can transcode HD matieral for playback on the MVP.

MHO....

Stick with the Athlons if you can.
While a faster Sempron might be ok, it may not be worth it
(in regards to what you want to do), because it has half the L2 cache
that the Athlons have.
I've never transcoded material before, but I'm guessing, that with that much
intense work, the extra L2 cache would be a better gamble.
I second trying to overclock your current cpu (that is if its possible,
and you can deal with the extra noise from the fan, if the cpu needs extra coooling).

[blade]

I completely agree with trying to overclock your current cpu to get an idea if more power would help.

After doing some reading it seems like unless you can find an Athlon 64 3700 or get a good overclock from a Venice core you're not going to get much of an upgrade. If you don't mind buying a used 3700 you might check Anandtech's Sale/Trade Forum.

Another possible alternative would be to use a Turion (Athlon 64 mobile cpu) and overclock it. If your board supports it. They're pricey though.

[insomniac]

I would recommend getting a cpu that would not need overclocking to get the job done. If you dont, you will have nothing to fall back on when and if it yeilds bad results.

Plus, if you get everything running well w/o overclocking now, you will then have an option to overclock later if your cpu requirements increase (which they always do.).

your mileage may vary..

[mdnttoker]

While you're at it, why not replace the motherboard and get a dual core?

That way you can surf and play games w/o worrying about effecting the PVR functions...

-Dan

[srothwell]

Originally Posted by mdnttoker

While you're at it, why not replace the motherboard and get a dual core?

That way you can surf and play games w/o worrying about effecting the PVR functions...

-Dan

$$$$$$$$$

New CPU is $60. New CORE2, MB, Video, Memory $1300

[blade]

Originally Posted by insomniac

I would recommend getting a cpu that would not need overclocking to get the job done. If you dont, you will have nothing to fall back on when and if it yeilds bad results.

Plus, if you get everything running well w/o overclocking now, you will then have an option to overclock later if your cpu requirements increase (which they always do.).

your mileage may vary..

What would you suggest he get? The fastest cpu available for the socket 754 was an Athlon 64 3700 clawhammer, which doesn't seem readily available anymore. The only Venice core for the 754 appears to be the 3000. Remember it is a newer core than the 3200, 3400, and 3700s that were available for the 754 platform. You're assuming that a higher PR rated, older & larger core will yield better overclocking than the smaller, newer, and more energy efficient Venice. The only advantage IMO of the 3700 in this case is the greater L2 cache.

If he can get a reasonably priced 3700 great, but if not IMO the Venice 3000 should be able to yield as good if not better results than anything else available for the socket except for the Turion.

If you read up on overclocking of the Venice chips you'll see practically all of them will do at least 2.4ghz, which would put them at around a 3600 on the 754 platform. Reaching 2.6ghz is pretty common as well.

[Crashless]

$1300!? You can get a apg/ddr/core 2 mb for $46:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813185086

and a pentium D for $95:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116001

use your current memory and vid card. AND you have an upgrade path. Seems like something I might try....

Good luck selling it to the CEO.