So Long and farewell to SAGETV

[rtwhbw]

Fellows,
I appreciate all the help you have provided, but I am tried of spending my evenings and weekends trying to get this thing working. it's 70 degrees and I am inside surfing this forum to figure out how I can watch the ACC Basketball tourney. Today, Sage has crashed several times, lost sound, lost video, and HD stutter, fix the stutter and PQ goes down a notch (between HD with VMR and SD PQ). Have bought new LCD tv and new dual core computer, network equipment, HDHomerun, and I get to pull out my hair every Sat and Sun trying to make them all "play nice."

I will get directv to send me a dvr . I have enough stress in my life to add this to.

I have spent way too much money to get something that I have to spend 10-15 minutes almost everytime I turn on my tv to get this to work so I can watch TV. Wife is not happy with quality or random crashes. I would love for this to work smoothly, but after several months and getting to the point that I just don't want to deal will all this. My opinion of V6 is I should have never upgraded from V2 which worked well for what I wanted.

I will wait for Directv to add HD and transfer to that. So long and fair well

Best regards
Rusty

[paulbeers]

For some, HD is just too much. It is unfortunate that you could not accomplish your goal and that Sage was not the solution for you. If you are only looking to capture and playback on one location, then the DirectTV pvr may be the route for you.

[rtwhbw]

All I want is local play back and would like to be able to move recorded video to computer, but may just have to forget about that.

I can get it to work for several hours, then it will crash or sputter. Sputtering is VERY frustrating while watching a basketball game; the guy shoots, then it freeze him mid air, then it starts back with the game at teh other end of the court.

Thanks
Rusty

[stanger89]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, I spend about 15 minutes working on Sage whenever a new version comes out, but that's pretty much it.

Originally Posted by rtwhbw

I can get it to work for several hours, then it will crash or sputter.

Sounds like you've got some inherent instability in your PC, maybe a heat issue.

Sputtering is VERY frustrating while watching a basketball game; the guy shoots, then it freeze him mid air, then it starts back with the game at teh other end of the court.

Sounds like a reception problem to me.

[geogecko]

Sorry it did not work out. HTPC's are inherently tweakers machines. I have to admit though, as stanger89 did, that once you get all the little "issues" ironed out, generally, I spend little time updating to new versions.

I found that most of my problems were either hardware related (FusionHDTV's PCI's not playing nice together), or some other software issue. For instance, why SageTV continues to install the AC3 decoder, instead of asking you, every time, is beyond me. Every time a new version of SageTV is installed, I have to reboot, set the decoder back to the nvidia purevideo decoder, and then I usually reboot as a good measure.

[dbfresh23]

I'm not doing HD with my Sage system, I have the DirecTV HD DVR for that - but like Stanger, I spend a few minutes after an upgrade and pretty much don't touch my system again. I have found SageTV to be ultra reliable, way more reliable then my HD DVR from DirecTV for that matter.

It does sound like your problems are outside of SageTV, either hardware, heat like Stanger said or winblows.

[motobarsteward]

Sage has it's moments where it makes me pull my hair out, but it's usually down to stupidity on my part (and I have lots to go around if anyone wants some!).

I must admit to being tempted to just replying 'See you!' but that wouldn't have been very nice!

[mayamaniac]

Makes me worry about upgrading to HD tuners. I think I'll stick with SD for while longer. Maybe you should get a DTV DVR box for HD, and use SageTV strictly for SD shows. I learned through the years that for the basic function of a PVR system, SageTV is very reliable and functional. As for other function such as media center stuffs, it's still lacking in stability and functionality.

[gblinckmann]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

Makes me worry about upgrading to HD tuners. I think I'll stick with SD for while longer. Maybe you should get a DTV DVR box for HD, and use SageTV strictly for SD shows. I learned through the years that for the basic function of a PVR system, SageTV is very reliable and functional. As for other function such as media center stuffs, it's still lacking in stability and functionality.

That's the way I work it now, with a DVR from Time Warner for HD. I'm hoping that when I have the combination of HD extenders and the HD Home Run all running on a Windows Home Server that this will be the right combination for me to be able to return the Time Warner box. It won't be worth keeping it for just two channels on HD that I can't get over the air.

[PhillJones]

I'm sorry that it turned out this way for you.

It's a horrible feeling I know when you've poured so much money and effort into the thing and you can't get it to work. You feel almost trapped by the investment and start to hate your entertainment system.

This is why when people ask me about my system and say they want to do something similar I find myself recommending to stay away from HTPC if they just want the cool results rather than being able to take pleasure in the building, learning and debugging.

[geogecko]

Originally Posted by PhillJones

This is why when people ask me about my system and say they want to do something similar I find myself recommending to stay away from HTPC if they just want the cool results rather than being able to take pleasure in the building, learning and debugging.

That is a very good point, and basically what I've been doing.

It takes a fairly computer competent person to know what they are doing. If a person isn't into tweaking things around, to get good results, and enjoy doing that, then it will be a frustrating experience.

I've had several people at work talk to me about it, and most of them take a different route, after I talk to them. I don't downplay it, as you might think, but I let them know, that it's not a trivial thing to setup. It takes a lot of time, unless you do a lot of research up front (but that takes a lot of time also), and even then, with every new software release, there can be issues...

I'm satisfied with the way things have turned out right now, but the first year or so, was painful.

[CanadianEh]

Originally Posted by geogecko

I've had several people at work talk to me about it, and most of them take a different route, after I talk to them. I don't downplay it, as you might think, but I let them know, that it's not a trivial thing to setup. It takes a lot of time, unless you do a lot of research up front (but that takes a lot of time also), and even then, with every new software release, there can be issues...

I'm satisfied with the way things have turned out right now, but the first year or so, was painful.

I agree with this. Home-built PVR's are *great* for SDTV, however, HDTV just isn't there yet. Many people still have issues with HD playback (I still have a microstutter, even with a 7950GT). Methods to record HD are currently my biggest issue, and would be the one single thing that would ever make me switch away from Sage. For now, I'm just using OTA for HD, but as cable stations start the switch over to HD programming, I don't know what I'm going to do.

[jbarr]

I think it all boils down to your expectations. I firmly believe that a home-built HTPC will NEVER rival or surpass the picture quality of a cable company-provided DVR/STB. I've used several SD and HD cable-provided solutions, and they ALL provide superior picture quality to PVR's on an HTPC or standalone DVR's (ReplayTV, TiVi.) But for me, picture quality is not the end-all/be-all of my TV experience. I willingly accept that my picture quality will never be perfect, but the user-controllable feature set that a PVR offers (in this case, SageTV) far outweighs any quality issues. Yes, I wish my video would be smoother and crisper, but it ain't gonna happen without some serious investment, and even then, I'm skeptical.

[KarylFStein]

I left SageTV for the past year because of my (and my wife's) frustrations with stability especially on OTA HD. However, I am unhappy with the solutions I've tried since and am seriously considering a return. My wife thinks it's a bad idea, but she doesn't like the other option of using Windows MCE.

The thing is, this has to be viewed as a hobby. My next upgrade will probably be to a prepackaged solution because now that we know what TV watching SHOULD be like, this is no longer a hobby for my family. However, I'm waiting for all the DVD and digital cable wars to be ironed out. I figure that gives me a couple years to save up and play around.

If you don't enjoy tinkering with the box, and spending way too much time and money on tweaking things, then I don't think a DYI solution like SageTV is the way to go. I've gone through several software and hardware incarnations and I still can't get a reasonably stable system that does everything I want. Sometimes I envy those who either have a shorter laundry list of "must-haves" or for some reason have better luck getting the hardware and software to work. But, for now, this is my hobby. In a couple years, when I buy that prepackaged box, I'll find a new way to waste time and money.

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

The thing is, this has to be viewed as a hobby. My next upgrade will probably be to a prepackaged solution because now that we know what TV watching SHOULD be like, this is no longer a hobby for my family. However, I'm waiting for all the DVD and digital cable wars to be ironed out. I figure that gives me a couple years to save up and play around.

I think that one sentence sums up the whole PC-based PVR situation. However, I also believe that it's important to continue tinkering around with this stuff because it illustrates a community desire to have additional features that aren't being offered by the cable company (like networked file sharing, placeshifting, and integrated media centers). Granted, it'll be a while before the cable companies actually care what their customers think, but one can always dream

Stu

[SHS]

DYI solution like SageTV and min 3rdparty software is fine but all need to take count that Digital Cable is coming and cable company will have no choice in matter it be user-controllable after all the FCC ordered that cable companies would provide a separable security access device by July 1, 2007 which could be used by third-party devices and must be commercial availability to consumers to access digital cable networks how ever the cable companies are currently lobbying for a third extension of that deadline which was to start in July 1, 2000 but managment to get an 2nd extension.
The problem with occur cable card device it is not commercial availability to consumers it is only sold to BIG OEM which is a monopolist practices and dosen't have an FCC approval and you and I know we the people are going to put up with carp.
On to HDTV stream there a lot thing that can cuases problem with stutter
1: Video card lack of ture hardware decoding power
2: Motherboard bus mastering
3: Harddrive
4: Broadcaster stream is poor
5: Antenna as in Poor Reception or over amps signal which cuases stream bits drop out.
This could be due to numerous other reasons, such as: · Low quality aerial, or using indoor aerial.
· Distance from your house to the broadcasters closest transmission tower.
· Broadcasters frequency maybe on the verge of your aerials reception range.
· Other devices sharing the same Aerial. Each device (such as tv, vcr etc) connected to the aerial will reduce the signal strength.
· Poor quality coaxial cable
· RFI (Radio Frequency Interference), EMI (Electromagnetically Interference) which some forum of Electrical Interference from outside to inside generated source problem like a common house hold devices · Microwaves.
6: The list gose on.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by sainswor99

I think that one sentence sums up the whole PC-based PVR situation. However, I also believe that it's important to continue tinkering around with this stuff because it illustrates a community desire to have additional features that aren't being offered by the cable company (like networked file sharing, placeshifting, and integrated media centers). Granted, it'll be a while before the cable companies actually care what their customers think, but one can always dream

Stu

Kind of like 1920's era DIY radio and the HAMS pioneered what is commonplace today in radio/cellular. First TV broadcast stations were FCC licensed as amateur radio stations (such as the now-KTLA in Los Angeles). These guys did have their purchased components. But today's PC DVR is 99% commercial off the shelf, somewhat different. More like the first users of portable radios that ran on large 90V batteries.

[jlindborg]

Originally Posted by rtwhbw

All I want is local play back and would like to be able to move recorded video to computer, but may just have to forget about that.

I can get it to work for several hours, then it will crash or sputter. Sputtering is VERY frustrating while watching a basketball game; the guy shoots, then it freeze him mid air, then it starts back with the game at teh other end of the court.

Thanks
Rusty

I went down this same trail of pain last year when I took a mighty run at HD with Sage. I scampered back to SD after a couple months of frustration much like you've experienced - lots of stuttering issues and way, way too much money into clients and such coupled with unending issues with capturing clean signals. HD is on the back burner for me for a while. For SD, though, Sage just can't be beat.

[lobosrul]

Believe me, I've felt like rtwhbw.

For about a week I had seemingly random lockups when I opened the guide. I blamed SageMC, went back to the default STV... same problem, so i blamed SageTV; until I figured out the problem only occured when pressing the guide (yellow bottom) button on the remote. I then figured out it was the Streamzap remote trying to run some non-existent program. The point is, the problem with todays HTPC (at least the sage route) is you need many components/software to get you going, and a problem with just one can be catastrophic.


I firmly believe that a home-built HTPC will NEVER rival or surpass the picture quality of a cable company-provided DVR/STB.

You might be right about SD, since the card has to encode an analog signal. But as far as HD, I gotta disagree. I have a beatiful picture using NVIDIA Purevideo. And you really cant get a better picture quality from DVD's using dshow pulldown/scaling filters.

[FidgetyRat]

Yikes, sorry you had such issues there!

I'm fortunate enough to have a rock solid system. Can go several months without even a crash or reboot. Though I don't do any HD so thats probably a saving grace.

Best advise for any new sage users.. Keep your windows system 100% spotless.

Nice ideas:
1) Fresh clean install before putting sage on.
2) Don't use the web browser (except for windows update). Use a different PC and transfer installers via network shares.
3) Sage only. No games, no programs (that aren't HTPC related)

Windows is not exactly the most reliable platform in the world, but with very anal care, it can be rock solid.


Best of luck with the DVR.. I too get frustrated with the amount of work required to get the systems running properly, but there are just so many features in custom PVR you can't get with OTC.