Will the R5000HD 169time.com products work with SageTV 6.1?

[mikesm]

Just got confirmation from TW that they're willing to provision the box, so I'm about to pull the trigger on a DCP501!

Congratulations! You found someone there who knows the law.. :-)

A few other final questions to soothe my concerns over the cost:

1) What about blocking channels/parental controls? With the dual-tuner dvr we've had before, there were controls to block certain programs by channel/rating/etc. I assume the DCP501 has similar capabilities when used alone. But what about with the r5000? I could see either the r5000 "bypassing" all this and thus not allowing any parental controls, or I could see Sage trying to tune a blocked channel and the r5000 just passing a black signal. Anyone know which is the case? If no one's tried it w/ a parental control set, does anyone mind trying it out?

The box acts as a normal STB, but the video you see is captured by the R5000-HD. That's the simple way of thinking about it. If you get no video when you tune a channel, as if you are not authorized, then the R5000-HD will not capture it either.

So if you have the box block certain channels, and no video is output, the R5000-HS will not capture it. Sage may give you a no signal error however.

Why not do this is Sage rather than the box?

2) For cable box menu type actions, like PPV, is there a way to do this through Sage, or do you have to directly control the box to do this? (I'm sure this is the same way control of any STB would work, not just the r5000 mod, I've just never used Sage for anything but OTA until now.

Not today. You'd have to be manually control the box and view the video output of the DCP501 to do that. It's just like any other STB, except the tuning and capture are integrated into the R5000-HD and all digital.

Note the DCP501 is not capable of displaying an HD signal. It captures the HD signal fine through an R5000-HD, but the MPEG decoder in the box is SD only. So if you do PPV in HD, that can be captured manually via the R5000-HD, but not displayed natively by the DCP501.

3) Is it reasonable to assume there's an aftermarket resale value for a DCP501 w/ the r5000 mod? There's a chance I'll be moving in a year or so to a non-Motorola cable company area and would hate to just have to eat the entire $600 investment. But I've not seen a used r5000 for sale on ebay or anything, so I just wondered if there's something that would keep it from being re-used by someone else in aftermarket...

I think so. The R5000-HD can be removed and swapped into another piece of hardware for $100 + shipping, which helps on the resale front. Not too many people know about this mod, but that is increasing every day.

Besides, once you see this work in Sage, I think you'll decide not to move to an SA market. :-)


Thanks,
Mike

[popechild]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Congratulations! You found someone there who knows the law.. :-)

Yeah, it took threatening a few CSRs with going to the FCC before I finally got one who wanted to prove me wrong bad enough to give me an email address where I could send this "alleged" FCC ruling. Apparently my detailed, multi-part email that explained just what the law is on this situation found its way up the chain to a VP, who had the initial CSR call back yesterday to say "we'll do it, but you got to give us about a week to figure it out because nobody here knows *how* to do it."

It's a shame you have to be a squeaky wheel sometimes...

The box acts as a normal STB, but the video you see is captured by the R5000-HD. That's the simple way of thinking about it. If you get no video when you tune a channel, as if you are not authorized, then the R5000-HD will not capture it either.

So if you have the box block certain channels, and no video is output, the R5000-HS will not capture it. Sage may give you a no signal error however.

Why not do this is Sage rather than the box?

That's helpful info. I guess we could try it in Sage, but I'm assuming it's much easier to "get around" than the STB will be.

Not today. You'd have to be manually control the box and view the video output of the DCP501 to do that. It's just like any other STB, except the tuning and capture are integrated into the R5000-HD and all digital.

Note the DCP501 is not capable of displaying an HD signal. It captures the HD signal fine through an R5000-HD, but the MPEG decoder in the box is SD only. So if you do PPV in HD, that can be captured manually via the R5000-HD, but not displayed natively by the DCP501.

Got it. So just set a manual recording on some channel in Sage, then manually order the PPV through the STB while Sage continues to think it's plugging away on the same channel the whole time. I won't really use it enough to be a problem.

I think so. The R5000-HD can be removed and swapped into another piece of hardware for $100 + shipping, which helps on the resale front. Not too many people know about this mod, but that is increasing every day.

Besides, once you see this work in Sage, I think you'll decide not to move to an SA market. :-)

Yeah, the three times we've moved before, our first opinions of potential houses has always been drastically different:

Mrs. Popechild: "Wow, this place is so open. I love the color scheme."
Me: "There's no place for the surrounds."

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by popechild

Yeah, the three times we've moved before, our first opinions of potential houses has always been drastically different:

Mrs. Popechild: "Wow, this place is so open. I love the color scheme."
Me: "There's no place for the surrounds."

Ha Ha, That's like friends of mine who have, while house-shopping, told their realtors "Don't even show us a house if it doesn't have broadband available". No way in hell were they going back to dial-up.

Now its "If the CC isn't running Motorola gear, don't even waste my time"

[popechild]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

Ha Ha, That's like friends of mine who have, while house-shopping, told their realtors "Don't even show us a house if it doesn't have broadband available". No way in hell were they going back to dial-up.

Now its "If the CC isn't running Motorola gear, don't even waste my time"

Yep, it's all about having priorities!

[mkanet]

The cable company delivered a cablebox with a firewire port on it. I went to the local office and swapped it out for an older model; and now, the older model is provisioned. Next step is getting the R5000!

[mkanet]

I just installed 2 autumnwave usb tuners. I'm guessing SageTV didn't really test this product too well.

Although, it works perfectly with the autumnwave proprietary software...

Under sageTV its very clunky.. pretty much unusable. SageTVservice crashes during channel scan. Hard drive starts grinding away during channel scan. A couple of times it made it through the channel scan, but I totally had to jump through hoops to do it. Also, many of the channels that I can tune in, the guide has no information for them; which also makes this even more useless.

I wish someone had told me these things arent that usable in sageTV. I am just crossing my fingers that the R5000 wont be anything like this.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

I just installed 2 autumnwave usb tuners. I'm guessing SageTV didn't really test this product too well.

Although, it works perfectly with the autumnwave proprietary software...

Under sageTV its very clunky.. pretty much unusable. SageTVservice crashes during channel scan. Hard drive starts grinding away during channel scan. A couple of times it made it through the channel scan, but I totally had to jump through hoops to do it. Also, many of the channels that I can tune in, the guide has no information for them; which also makes this even more useless.

I wish someone had told me these things arent that usable in sageTV. I am just crossing my fingers that the R5000 wont be anything like this.

Even with the EPG issues, I really like my hdhomerun. And it works great with Sage. Maybe you can return them? I had no experience with them else I would have commented... Actually, I think you'd have the same EPG issues with any of the QAM tuners. It's a Sage problem, though in the SF Bay Area, there are other lineups which work just fine, so you don't notice it.

My R5000-HD installed with no fuss. You have to be sure to install the driver exactly the way it's outlined by Nextcomm. Otherwise XP will hit the internet looking for a driver, find a DVB-T driver, load it, and then run into issues. A friend ran into such a problem on his system, and it a little messing around removing files from the driver directory, but once that was done, everything worked fine. If you follow directions exactly, you won't have even that issue.

It is pretty neat I have to say - recording premium HD with no hassles... I only have one of them. If you use more than one, you have to use their multi-R5000-HD driver. You have to order one or the other for use with Sage.

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

Hey Mike, are there any EPG issues with the R5000?

Originally Posted by mikesm

Even with the EPG issues, I really like my hdhomerun. And it works great with Sage. Maybe you can return them? I had no experience with them else I would have commented... Actually, I think you'd have the same EPG issues with any of the QAM tuners. It's a Sage problem, though in the SF Bay Area, there are other lineups which work just fine, so you don't notice it.

My R5000-HD installed with no fuss. You have to be sure to install the driver exactly the way it's outlined by Nextcomm. Otherwise XP will hit the internet looking for a driver, find a DVB-T driver, load it, and then run into issues. A friend ran into such a problem on his system, and it a little messing around removing files from the driver directory, but once that was done, everything worked fine. If you follow directions exactly, you won't have even that issue.

It is pretty neat I have to say - recording premium HD with no hassles... I only have one of them. If you use more than one, you have to use their multi-R5000-HD driver. You have to order one or the other for use with Sage.

Thanks,
Mike

[HawgGuy]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Hey Mike, are there any EPG issues with the R5000?

I'm not Mike. But no, no epg issues that I can tell.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Hey Mike, are there any EPG issues with the R5000?

Just to be clear, the issues with the EPG that I am referring to has to deal with the lineup being selected. With the HDHomeRun, you pick a cable line up that is consistent with your service, and then you physically remap channels that it can receive, and disable those it can't (that are encrypted).

When you disable a set of channels in a specific line up, if you select that line up for another tuner, the same mapping and enabled/disabled channels are automatically carried over.

So when you add something like an R5000-HD, or a nornal set top box hooked to a PVR-150 etc..., you don't want the channels disabled by the HDHomeRun to be disabled for the new tuner, JUST BECAUSE YOU USE THE SAME LINE UP.

For me, where I have 2 HDHomeRUn tuners, an R5000-HD (that receives everything), and 2 DCT700's that are hooked to encoders (which can't do HD), I need to use 3 different lineups, since what I enable and disable are different for each type of tuner.

This is the EPG issue I am referring too, and as I said, it's a Sage issue, not a HDHomeRun issue. I reefrred to this in this thread:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24731

It doesn't look like Sage is planning on fixing this anytime soon, but it's a PITA for those of us with multiple types of tuners in a cable environment. It's not that hard to work around in my area, but others might not be so lucky and have to resort to custom XML guides.

Thanks,
mike

[KJake]

Drat you guys! Now you've got me spending money. It just so happens that my internet connection contract comes to an end this month. So..I just ordered the HCP501, a HDHomeRun, and setup residential cable internet and HDTV because I don't want to deal with this MPEG4 stuff. I already have WinTVUSB2 and PVR500, so I think I will be set on the HD and SD front.

Thanks for all of this information, I almost switched to Dish to get the R5000, but it seems that isn't going to be the best option right now.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by KJake

Drat you guys! Now you've got me spending money. It just so happens that my internet connection contract comes to an end this month. So..I just ordered the HCP501, a HDHomeRun, and setup residential cable internet and HDTV because I don't want to deal with this MPEG4 stuff. I already have WinTVUSB2 and PVR500, so I think I will be set on the HD and SD front.

Thanks for all of this information, I almost switched to Dish to get the R5000, but it seems that isn't going to be the best option right now.

Are you sure your market will provision the DCP501? Bets to make sure before you spend a lot of money. Your system uses Moto boxes right?

Thanks,
Mike

[KJake]

Yup, I have Charter here - I called them up before I bought anything to confirm they could provision the DCP501 and after some passing around I found someone willing to look and they eventually found that they have a troubleshooting guide for it and codes listed that they put into their system to provision that model.

Thanks again for all the info...now, just need the HD Extender to come out to replace my MVPs...

[mkanet]

Okay.. the R5000 person has received my unit this morning. I'm guessing it doesnt take too long to do the mod and send it back. I ordered the $80 overnight shipping.

In anticipation to receiving my unit back, I'd like to learn all the steps involved in installing it. I was reading information on installation on the R5000 website, but only found a bit of information. Where is the full instructions on how to install it. Starting from plugging the USB cable?

Thanks in advance!

[mikesm]

Overnight shipping? Wow, you are eager!!

Here is the link to the main install guide for the driver:

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000...dvr_manual.htm

Follow these directions exactly and you should be fine. Note where it says do not let XP go out and try and find a driver via the internet. This is the source of much evil. You may have XP set to do this automatically, so you may need to change that setting. My advice - when you are doing the driver install, unplug the server from LAN. Then you don't have to worry about any microsoft "value add" happening.

The directions for the SageTV specific part of the install are here:

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/sagetv.htm

Cut and paste the red part of the text into the tuner settings in the properties file.

I would have sage shut down when doing this part of the install. Once you have the R5000-HD application up and running, then start sage and go ahead and do the tuner configuration.

Is your R5000-HD going to be connected to the same system running Sage server? Doesn't need to be of course, but if so, you will need to make sure that SageTV is started after the R5000-HD application fires up. Otherwise it could run into some issues with the network tuner not being online.

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

Yeah, my sageTV server and sageTV client are all on the same machine. How does the following settings affect non-R5000 playback? I still use my machine for OTA ATSC recordings. I wouldnt want to adversely affect the quick channel changing behavior between OTA channels that I currently have.

seeker/fast_mux_switch=false
videoframe/fast_file_switching=false

Three more questions...

1) Do you have your cablebox/R5000 hooked up to power when you plug the USB cable into the PC? I was going to have the power on while connecting the USB cable. I didnt even realize that the PC would be able to detect the R5000 without it being powered on.

2) What do you guys have set for Autogenerate/Autoincrement file names. I was hoping the names of the recordings would be the names of the shows.

3) It is recommended to put my device serial # in the below sageTV properties entry. where do I get that # from? mmc/encoders/12347/video_capture_device_name=Dish411-100239C

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Yeah, my sageTV server and sageTV client are all on the same machine. How does the following settings affect non-R5000 playback? I still use my machine for OTA ATSC recordings. I wouldnt want to adversely affect the quick channel changing behavior between OTA channels that I currently have.

seeker/fast_mux_switch=false
videoframe/fast_file_switching=false

Three more questions...

1) Do you have your cablebox/R5000 hooked up to power when you plug the USB cable into the PC? I was going to have the power on while connecting the USB cable. I didnt even realize that the PC would be able to detect the R5000 without it being powered on.

2) What do you guys have set for Autogenerate/Autoincrement file names. I was hoping the names of the recordings would be the names of the shows.

3) It is recommended to put my device serial # in the below sageTV properties entry. where do I get that # from? mmc/encoders/12347/video_capture_device_name=Dish411-100239C

On the issue of channel change time settings, I don't actually use that on my R5000-HD. I sometimes get a brief "no signal" display before the program starts, but otherwise it's fine. There may be a way to have it apply to a specific tuner and not globally, but I'm not up on the properties file enough to see that. BTW, is there a updated list of properties options in 6.1.9? I have found quite a few older compilations, but not the current one.

On #1, Yes, the R5000-HD is powered by the USB connection on the PC. It won't get any data without the STB being turned on of course. Either way I think you should have the Sage version of the 5000-HD utility installed on the system, and the driver downloaded and ready to go when you connect everything up. When you do for the first time, disconnect the LAN from the computer so you don't get a bogus driver downloaded.

On #2, ignore what it says in the R5000-HD utility. When Sage connects to the utility, it will provide the name the program is stored as. The autoincrement name is used for when you are doing a direct capture from the R5000-HD utility, and usually for debugging.

On #3, when you have successfully installed the driver, the R5000-HD utility will connect to the R5000 and tell you what the serial# is of the R5000. That's that hex number at the end of name. For your box, you should name it something like DCT5100-XXXXXXX. The name you pick is not really relevant - you could name it Fred. But if you add another R5000 tuner, you might want to be able to tell them apart... :-)

Good luck - has fedex delivered your box yet?

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

Okay, so for #2, I should select any checkboxes at all? So the only thing I should change in the R5000-HD utilty is what kind of cablebox I have and provider?

My box was shipped overnight. I should get it tomorrow!

Originally Posted by mikesm

On #2, ignore what it says in the R5000-HD utility. When Sage connects to the utility, it will provide the name the program is stored as. The autoincrement name is used for when you are doing a direct capture from the R5000-HD utility, and usually for debugging.

Good luck - has fedex delivered your box yet?

Thanks,
Mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Okay, so for #2, I should select any checkboxes at all? So the only thing I should change in the R5000-HD utilty is what kind of cablebox I have and provider?

My box was shipped overnight. I should get it tomorrow!

I do have autogenerate names checked, so for debugging it picks the name automatically. Again, when sage is connected to the tuner, Sage will provide a name with the program info included as part of the control.

I also have the box *.ts set, which I think is consistent with how Sage wants to process it...

Otherwise it should be good to go.

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

SageTV by default uses .mpg as file extension for ATSC OTA recordings. What am i supposed to set in the R5000 DVR app if I want the extentions to be mpg (like all my over the air recordings). Do I still have to set it to .TS anyway and let SageTV convert the original transport stream to a an mpg file?

I will leave all other options at their defaults and ONLY change the STB/provider settings.

Originally Posted by mikesm

I do have autogenerate names checked, so for debugging it picks the name automatically. Again, when sage is connected to the tuner, Sage will provide a name with the program info included as part of the control.

I also have the box *.ts set, which I think is consistent with how Sage wants to process it...

Otherwise it should be good to go.

Thanks,
Mike