Will the R5000HD 169time.com products work with SageTV 6.1?

[mkanet]

My new Nvidia display adapter has a builtin video encoder which will output via (svideo out). AKA "Nvidia DualTV". This is a supported analog video WDM capture device in SageTV.... hmmmmm...

In a perfect world, if everything works right for me, I can have a Channel 0 in sageTV mapped to my Svideo input of my Nvidia card... which would connnect to the analog out of my Cablebox (meant for On Demand Navigation). I also have a Hauppauge PVR 2 USB 2.0 capture device which I'm not using....

I'll have some stuff to play with this weekend

Originally Posted by mikesm

Jack is right about the guide and the switching of the video. You don't need to disconnect sage, just tell the Tv to switch inputs directly to the DCT.

Also, I don't think there is an elegant solution for the PPV problem. I did think about connecting another tuner to the analog out of the DCT, doing a frame grab and then running OCR across the frame grab to pick up menu selections, and then presenting them in the Sage UI. This would give Sage the ability to display options for ondemand to the user, and possibly even trigger automatic recording.

But this would cost a tuner and be a heck of a lot of work. It would differentiate it though!

Thanks,
Mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

My new Nvidia display adapter has a builtin video encoder which will output via (svideo out). AKA "Nvidia DualTV". This is a supported analog video WDM capture device in SageTV.... hmmmmm...

In a perfect world, if everything works right for me, I can have a Channel 0 in sageTV mapped to my Svideo input of my Nvidia card... which would connnect to the analog out of my Cablebox (meant for On Demand Navigation). I also have a Hauppauge PVR 2 USB 2.0 capture device which I'm not using....

I'll have some stuff to play with this weekend

I see where you are going with this, but I think it's going to be a lot of work. The issue here isn't being able to see the overlay plane (connecting the s-video out of the DCT to your analog tuner in), but passing remote control signals from your Sage remote so that STB codes for cursor up/down guiide, etc... are sent to the box to control ondemand. You may be able to do this with girder, but it will be an endaround of Sage, since Sage has no capability to do what you are trying to do builtin.

I am pretty sure the manual approach with universal remotes will work, but it won't work in different rooms etc...

Sage could add some hooks to make what you are trying to do easier, but they haven't indicated that this sort of thing is on their roadmap.

I do think my idea about running OCR on the screen capture was pretty cool though... :-)

Thanks,
Mike

[NEOSG]

Originally Posted by mkanet

My new Nvidia display adapter has a builtin video encoder which will output via (svideo out). AKA "Nvidia DualTV". This is a supported analog video WDM capture device in SageTV.... hmmmmm...

In a perfect world, if everything works right for me, I can have a Channel 0 in sageTV mapped to my Svideo input of my Nvidia card... which would connnect to the analog out of my Cablebox (meant for On Demand Navigation). I also have a Hauppauge PVR 2 USB 2.0 capture device which I'm not using....

I'll have some stuff to play with this weekend

I use an extra USB2 PVR from Hauppauge to monitor the analog outs of my R5000 equipped Dish boxes. I have them set to channels 0 for one box via S-Video, and channel 1 for another box via Composite. Of course, I can only view one at a time in Sage. I do this so, that if I have mistakenly tuned a blacked-out event, or need to check signal strength of an OTA, or run any diags, I can see it via sage, and adjust via R5000remote control panel on my Sage Server. This should work fine for you to manage OnDemand stuff. Then, once video starts to fly, fire up recording using R5000

[mkanet]

I should have explained more... yes, I'm aiming to automate this with Girder/USB-UIRT that I already have and use for SageTV and controlling other IR based appliances.

I thought about this more, and think it would be much nicer to get a little dedicated 15" LCD display which will hook up to the component out of the STB. If I have a lot of luck, I can just press one button on my SageTV remote control (which sends commands to the USB-UIRT) and it will tell my little dedicated 15" LCD display to power on and will put my STB in On Demand mode. Navigation of the STB will be handled by Girder.

Yes, your OCR idea is a great idea!

Edit: I will test to see if I can even watch/record On Demand. If it works, I'm going to order me the below monitor just for On Demand menus. It will sit in my stand below my large screen. I'll hook it up via component.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NKAYVW/...W&linkCode=asn

Originally Posted by mikesm

I see where you are going with this, but I think it's going to be a lot of work. The issue here isn't being able to see the overlay plane (connecting the s-video out of the DCT to your analog tuner in), but passing remote control signals from your Sage remote so that STB codes for cursor up/down guiide, etc... are sent to the box to control ondemand. You may be able to do this with girder, but it will be an endaround of Sage, since Sage has no capability to do what you are trying to do builtin.

I am pretty sure the manual approach with universal remotes will work, but it won't work in different rooms etc...

Sage could add some hooks to make what you are trying to do easier, but they haven't indicated that this sort of thing is on their roadmap.

I do think my idea about running OCR on the screen capture was pretty cool though... :-)

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

Mike (or anybody). I never really tried too hard to get this (unrelated to On Demand) issue fixed. I'm hoping you wouldnt mind explaining to me how to do it:

I have two brand new QAM based tuners which I don't use. I could never figure out how to get my local channels for cable to remap to friendly single-digit #'s channels (to show at the top of my guide) AND have the guide data to show correctly. How do I do that? Currently, I'm using 2 OTA tuners instead which automatically remap to friendly channel #s and have perfect guide data without messing with anything.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Mike (or anybody). I never really tried too hard to get this (unrelated to On Demand) issue fixed. I'm hoping you wouldnt mind explaining to me how to do it:

I have two brand new QAM based tuners which I don't use. I could never figure out how to get my local channels for cable to remap to friendly single-digit #'s channels (to show at the top of my guide) AND have the guide data to show correctly. How do I do that? Currently, I'm using 2 OTA tuners instead which automatically remap to friendly channel #s and have perfect guide data without messing with anything.

It's not that hard a workaround in general. So let's say you have your R5000, and you configure it during tuner setup. You tell it your zipcode, say 94025 (menlo park), and you get a list of line ups. DBS, locals, or Comcast Cable, and then an option to select which comcast system, and analog vs digital etc... So lets say you live in Menlo Park, and you select comcast digital - palo alto and menlo park.

Ok, when you configure your onairs, you cannot choose the same comcast digital - menlo park lineup. You need to find another lineup from another city (maybe using a nearby zip code) whose channels are exactly the same as the ones in your real line-up. So let's say you pick another zip code, 94063, and select comcast digital - san mateo. You go ahead and do the physical channel remapping for your first tuner. Then you enable only those channels that are in the clear, and finish the setup. On the 2nd card, just elect the same line up comcast digital - san mateo, and you will find the physical mappings are already done, and the same channels are enabled. Finish that, and you are done.

Sage will merge the program guides, which should be almost the same in my example, and you'll be good to go. I would raise the encoder merit for the onairs above that of the R5000, so if Sage needs to record a program that the onairs get, they will be selected, leaving the R5000 (which can see everything) free for live tv or other functions...

Makes sense? It should be easier than this, but Sage didn't pick a good way of dealing with mods to channel lineups, so you stuck with finding a different comcast system to select that has the same lineup more or less. Not too hard in the bay area, but not so easily elsewhere.

thanks,
mike

[mkanet]

Believe it or not, I think I understood everything you said... and know why you have to select a different nearby zipcode (so both OnAir and R5000 channels will show up in the guide at the same time). However, this is my experience... no matter what kind of tuner I use!

1) Select zipcode
2) Select type of broadast
3) Scan for channels (over the air or QAM)
4) Go to channel line up. Remap a channel to the desired "friendly channel number" (thats not already being used).
5) Go to guide, select one of those friendly channels you remapped in step 4
6) No video/no audio.

I think sageTV is trying to tune the channel to the actual friendly channel # and not the real channel number. In theory, it should tune to the real channel # secretly and let you believe its the friendly one. As soon as I put the channel # back to the real channel #, it can tune in once again.

On top of all that, if I remember correctly after I remap the channels to a friendly #, the SageTV guide displays "No Data" for programming information.

What am I missing?

Originally Posted by mikesm

It's not that hard a workaround in general. So let's say you have your R5000, and you configure it during tuner setup. You tell it your zipcode, say 94025 (menlo park), and you get a list of line ups. DBS, locals, or Comcast Cable, and then an option to select which comcast system, and analog vs digital etc... So lets say you live in Menlo Park, and you select comcast digital - palo alto and menlo park.

Ok, when you configure your onairs, you cannot choose the same comcast digital - menlo park lineup. You need to find another lineup from another city (maybe using a nearby zip code) whose channels are exactly the same as the ones in your real line-up. So let's say you pick another zip code, 94063, and select comcast digital - san mateo. You go ahead and do the physical channel remapping for your first tuner. Then you enable only those channels that are in the clear, and finish the setup. On the 2nd card, just elect the same line up comcast digital - san mateo, and you will find the physical mappings are already done, and the same channels are enabled. Finish that, and you are done.

Sage will merge the program guides, which should be almost the same in my example, and you'll be good to go. I would raise the encoder merit for the onairs above that of the R5000, so if Sage needs to record a program that the onairs get, they will be selected, leaving the R5000 (which can see everything) free for live tv or other functions...

Makes sense? It should be easier than this, but Sage didn't pick a good way of dealing with mods to channel lineups, so you stuck with finding a different comcast system to select that has the same lineup more or less. Not too hard in the bay area, but not so easily elsewhere.

thanks,
mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Believe it or not, I think I understood everything you said... and know why you have to select a different nearby zipcode (so both OnAir and R5000 channels will show up in the guide at the same time). However, this is my experience... no matter what kind of tuner I use!

1) Select zipcode
2) Select type of broadast
3) Scan for channels (over the air or QAM)
4) Go to channel line up. Remap a channel to the desired "friendly channel number" (thats not already being used).
5) Go to guide, select one of those friendly channels you remapped in step 4
6) No video/no audio.

I think sageTV is trying to tune the channel to the actual friendly channel # and not the real channel number. In theory, it should tune to the real channel # secretly and let you believe its the friendly one. As soon as I put the channel # back to the real channel #, it can tune in once again.

On top of all that, if I remember correctly after I remap the channels to a friendly #, the SageTV guide displays "No Data" for programming information.

What am I missing?

I don't have experience with the onairs, but in the Hdhomerun, you don't scan for channels - you do that in a different application, and then physically remap the channels in the guide. Maybe the onairs do that differently. If you are using a different channel lineup for them than the R5000, then you probably are not running into the Sage EPG bug re: QAM tuning. It may be an issue with the onair's configuration.

Can you point me at the setup description for the onairs in sage? I can try and see if I can figure out what's going on.

Thanks,
mike

[mkanet]

The Onairs do not rely on anything outside of SageTV. No external software applications are needed. All tuning is handled within SageTV... the same way OTA ATSC BDA capture cards work. What do you think?

Originally Posted by mikesm

I don't have experience with the onairs, but in the Hdhomerun, you don't scan for channels - you do that in a different application, and then physically remap the channels in the guide. Maybe the onairs do that differently. If you are using a different channel lineup for them than the R5000, then you probably are not running into the Sage EPG bug re: QAM tuning. It may be an issue with the onair's configuration.

Can you point me at the setup description for the onairs in sage? I can try and see if I can figure out what's going on.

Thanks,
mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

The Onairs do not rely on anything outside of SageTV. No external software applications are needed. All tuning is handled within SageTV... the same way OTA ATSC BDA capture cards work. What do you think?

I've never done setup on a card with a BDA driver. The issue must be in the channel mapping, since the onair's don't have an OOB tuner that picks up the channel map that the MSO sends out to the STB's to tell them how to map logical channels (in the EPG) to frequencies of QAM carriers.

In fact, I am pretty sure that BDA doesn't support QAM but only OTA (where the EPG info contains the actually frequency used for OTA). Are you sure there is not a special setup process if you want to use the onair's in QAM mode?

Thanks,
Mike

[mikesm]

PS Did you do the scan twice, one for analog and one for QAM as outlined in this thread?

http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index...0&#entry173566

Thanks,
Mike

PS I don't understand why Sage doesn't have a specific setup guide for each tuner they officially support. It would save users a lot of hassle.

[mkanet]

Im certain. BDA DOES handle QAM. The whole point of using the Onairs was the fact that it's not dependant of external software and addons. It worked fine when I used it right out of the box, but couldnt get the channel Guide displayed numbers to change without changing the tuning of it too... . This is also true for OTA ATSC stuff; but luckily OTA channels get automatically remapped to friendly ATSC PSID channel #s... which is perfect .

Originally Posted by mikesm

I've never done setup on a card with a BDA driver. The issue must be in the channel mapping, since the onair's don't have an OOB tuner that picks up the channel map that the MSO sends out to the STB's to tell them how to map logical channels (in the EPG) to frequencies of QAM carriers.

In fact, I am pretty sure that BDA doesn't support QAM but only OTA (where the EPG info contains the actually frequency used for OTA). Are you sure there is not a special setup process if you want to use the onair's in QAM mode?

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

Yes, I actually figured that trick on my own. However, it still didnt help me any. My guess is people with the Onair devices haven't really cared too much about where in the guide the channels show up as long as they do.

Anyway... it's not like I "really" need this to work, since I already have the OTA working exactly how I want it to without any tricks. I guess my Onairs might come in handy one day in the future if sageTV provides better QAM BDA support. I'm not going to hold my breath though..

Originally Posted by mikesm

PS Did you do the scan twice, one for analog and one for QAM as outlined in this thread?

http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index...0&#entry173566

Thanks,
Mike

PS I don't understand why Sage doesn't have a specific setup guide for each tuner they officially support. It would save users a lot of hassle.

[KJake]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Under federal law, they MUST provision a user owned STB IF it is compatible with their network.

Anyone have any tips for writing my atty general? Charter, after telling me that the DCP501 was compatible and could be provisioned (the person on the phone even said they found a troubleshooting guide and the codes to put into their system), is now refusing to do so. I've talked with multiple customer service reps, supervisors, and now a corporate liaison...all saying the same thing, "It is our policy not to connect customer owned digital cable devices". I tried telling them it was a law, but none of them cared.

I have their legal department's address...

[mkanet]

You may consider saving yourself a lot of headache by asking for an STB without firewire; and, get that modified. You can always get it un-modified when youre done using it for free.

Originally Posted by KJake

Anyone have any tips for writing my atty general? Charter, after telling me that the DCP501 was compatible and could be provisioned (the person on the phone even said they found a troubleshooting guide and the codes to put into their system), is now refusing to do so. I've talked with multiple customer service reps, supervisors, and now a corporate liaison...all saying the same thing, "It is our policy not to connect customer owned digital cable devices". I tried telling them it was a law, but none of them cared.

I have their legal department's address...

[KJake]

Originally Posted by mkanet

You may consider saving yourself a lot of headache by asking for an STB without firewire; and, get that modified. You can always get it un-modified when youre done using it for free.

I know ... but I bought this thing and really have no use for it other than for the cable box portion....I was trying to do this the nice way by buying my own box so I didn't have to mod one of theirs.

I called the FCC, I need to figure out who my local franchising authority is - they enforce the rules locally.

If you can't tell, I'm not really a fan of the cable company.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by KJake

Anyone have any tips for writing my atty general? Charter, after telling me that the DCP501 was compatible and could be provisioned (the person on the phone even said they found a troubleshooting guide and the codes to put into their system), is now refusing to do so. I've talked with multiple customer service reps, supervisors, and now a corporate liaison...all saying the same thing, "It is our policy not to connect customer owned digital cable devices". I tried telling them it was a law, but none of them cared.

I have their legal department's address...

Call your city's cable franchise manager, and complain to them. You can cite: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...16.3.2&idno=47

and here is more info:

USC TITLE 47 CHAPTER 5 SUBCHAPTER V-A Part III § 549 Competitive availability of navigation devices:

(a) Commercial consumer availability of equipment used to access services provided by multichannel video programming distributors
The Commission shall, in consultation with appropriate industry standard-setting organizations, adopt regulations to assure the commercial availability, to consumers of multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, of converter boxes, interactive communications equipment, and other equipment used by consumers to access multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, from manufacturers, retailers, and other vendors not affiliated with any multichannel video programming distributor. Such regulations shall not prohibit any multichannel video programming distributor from also offering converter boxes, interactive communications equipment, and other equipment used by consumers to access multichannel video programming and other services offered over multichannel video programming systems, to consumers, if the system operator’s charges to consumers for such devices and equipment are separately stated and not subsidized by charges for any such service.


You should also complain to the FCC here: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/complaints.html

Make sure you tell Charter you are calling the FCC's media bureau to file a formal complaint, as well as your local city franchise manager. And depending on what committee your congressman and senator serve on, one call to them on this issue may easily resolve it. Believe me, they take constituent services like this seriously.

What charter system are you in? Did you call their corporate HQ?

Thanks,
Mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

You may consider saving yourself a lot of headache by asking for an STB without firewire; and, get that modified. You can always get it un-modified when youre done using it for free.

This will work most of the time, but again is technically a violation of your cable service contract. So I would never recommend people do that.

Thanks,
Mike

[KJake]

Originally Posted by mikesm

What charter system are you in? Did you call their corporate HQ?

Charter system? Western Michigan, Kent County.

Yup, I called the corporate HQ and that's where it ended. I've been trying to find my local franchise authority but my local city hall didn't know it and the FCC person I talked to doesn't either. I think one of my neighbors is in customer service for Charter, so I'm seeing if he can get it for me (I switched to electronic only bills 2 years ago - where that info usually is found).

I also have made contact with a lawyer in town who has dealt with Comcast before and is part of a large firm. (Actually had my wife do this since she works at an IP firm that used to be part of this same firm).

I'm waiting on filing a complaint with the FCC and my Congressman/Senator until after I've contacted the local franchise authority.

Also, an installer is coming sometime today, so I'll see if he has a non-Firewire model on his truck.

Thanks for all of your info and support - sounds like you've been through this before.

Thanks,
Kevin

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by KJake

Charter system? Western Michigan, Kent County.

Yup, I called the corporate HQ and that's where it ended. I've been trying to find my local franchise authority but my local city hall didn't know it and the FCC person I talked to doesn't either. I think one of my neighbors is in customer service for Charter, so I'm seeing if he can get it for me (I switched to electronic only bills 2 years ago - where that info usually is found).

I also have made contact with a lawyer in town who has dealt with Comcast before and is part of a large firm. (Actually had my wife do this since she works at an IP firm that used to be part of this same firm).

I'm waiting on filing a complaint with the FCC and my Congressman/Senator until after I've contacted the local franchise authority.

Also, an installer is coming sometime today, so I'll see if he has a non-Firewire model on his truck.

Thanks for all of your info and support - sounds like you've been through this before.

Thanks,
Kevin

Well, you can tell your franchise people that comcast does this regularly, so why can't charter? Esp. since it's the law.

Do you live in Grand Rapids? Who is your congressman? Literally one phone call from their office to Charter's DC office should fix this. If you wanted to call their office, and tell them you are about to unload on them with the FCC and the Hill because of this clearly wrongheaded interpretation of the law, that might help too.

I haven't had that much trouble with this, though many others have run into snags. This is the first time I have heard that when it got escalated to corporate, they gave the wrong answer. Thus, it's imperative to make sure the appropriate people are punished and the policy changed so that everyone else who lives in charter territory doesn't have to suffer this fate. :-)

Thanks,
Mike