What is my advantage of still using SageTV?

[Walrus78]

I've been a loyal sage user for a number of years. I haven't been active on the forums, but after trying many free products and spending 6 months configuring them and getting nowhere, on the exact same hardware using SageTV, i was able to get it all set up in an evening and have it be nearly flawless. Back in 2004, SageTV was awesome to me. I had regular Analog Cable, no premiums, no digital channels, and I was really proud of my setup. I could set up recordings from home, the quality was pretty decent, and I could take the files and burn them onto DVD if I felt like it. Also, I could play the file back on my computer which didn't even have a tuner in it. Take that Tivo for its then $13/month subscription.

Now it is 2007. I've got an HDTV, and Digital Cable Service with HD channels. I want to continue using SageTV for something, but when my cable company offered my a PVR for less than I was paying for analog cable, I didn't want to turn it down for free.

Now, I will say SageTV has been more stable that my Time Warner PVR box, but I can't do digital channels(other than Clear QAM if I feel like buying HDHomeRun), and I can't really get the full quality of the High Definition channels on my SageTV box unless I decide to do OTA. My Time Warner Box is basically costing me $7/month. Plus I can add an external hard drive to it and increase the space on it dramatically. It can record all of my shows on all channels and do it in High Definition.

What have I lost? I can't schedule a recording from work. I can't watch live and recorded shows on another TV or computer. I would like those features, but I might have to take a hiatus from Sage until I can receive high definition channels and record them, and play them back on another TV. I don't see this happening until CableCard is supported on an open market tuner and that tuner is supported in SageTV. I'm just afraid that ETA date is never.

For me to continue using sage I need to be able to record these other channels and watch everything (well the channels that are) in high definition. Am I missing something? Is my setup just wrong or something? Can I accomplish what I am trying to do in a simple, not overly expensive sort of way?

I want to strike down the CableCard standard for what it is doing to Home Brew PVRs.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by Walrus78

What have I lost?

You've lost the ability to expand your system seamlessly by adding more tuners. You've also lost the ability to add features and customize the UI with third-party add-ons. Plus I'm guessing your Time-Warner DVR box doesn't do music, photos, YouTube, and so on (if you care about any of that stuff).

I can't give any practical advice about HD cable (I have satellite), but adding OTA HD to Sage is pretty painless in my experience, assuming your clients have sufficient horsepower for HD playback.

[Walrus78]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

You've lost the ability to expand your system seamlessly by adding more tuners. You've also lost the ability to add features and customize the UI with third-party add-ons. Plus I'm guessing your Time-Warner DVR box doesn't do music, photos, YouTube, and so on (if you care about any of that stuff).

The ability to play back music is a pretty big thing I hadn't thought of. I really haven't been using that feature since I don't like SageTVs music interface, but I definitely can't do it with the box. Although I don't watch so much TV that I need more than the 2 tuners in the Time Warner box.

I guess I just needed a reminder of some of the features I like. I think i'm going to just take a year or so break from SageTV and wait to see if some of these things get worked out. If I come back, can watch High Definition programming on my digital channels. Maybe there will be a streaming Netflix plugin as well at that point (if I didn't miss it and it exists now).

[Shield]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

You've lost the ability to expand your system seamlessly by adding more tuners. You've also lost the ability to add features and customize the UI with third-party add-ons. Plus I'm guessing your Time-Warner DVR box doesn't do music, photos, YouTube, and so on (if you care about any of that stuff).

I can't give any practical advice about HD cable (I have satellite), but adding OTA HD to Sage is pretty painless in my experience, assuming your clients have sufficient horsepower for HD playback.

Even more importantly is the fact he's lost the ability to dump recorded shows to a DVD! I've had the Time Warner Scientific Atlanta 8300HD for a couple of years and even added a 500GB eSata drive to it. It's cool to have all those shows recorded, but I'm limited to 2 tuners and I can't really archive the shows off of it.

[Jesse]

Hi Walrus78,

I hear you. We are with directv and we do have their HD DVR.

I still use sage for a bunch of stuff. The question that I asked was "What are we watching that is in HD?" The answer was that 98% of the HD programming we watch is network programming, which is available free OTA. If you are watching alot of HD content from other sources besides the networks then yes, sage is at a big disadvantage. The only reason we have the directv dvr is that I had some issues getting reliable OTA reception and the wife did not want to miss her shows. Right after we got the directv dvr I got got the reception issues resolved. Figures .

When directv (ok, if directv) rolls out all the new HD programming this fall then things may change. If I can get scifi in HD then I will have to look at the whole thing harder.

I have not given up hope. I hear there is still a pci based directv tuner in the works. There has also been some news about a fujitsu chip that will compress 720p in real time. That would allow component HD capture from any STB.

Jesse

[ben_95sl1]

for some of us, it's going to take a lot to pry our hands off of our sagetv box! I've recently discovered our cable (I have sat) offering might have clear qam for some channels, and also the hd stb has firewire that MAY be enabled. I currently don't have hd (and there's no easy way to get HD into sage from satellite without R5000), HD OTA does not exist here, so switching to cable seems like a potential future for me.

[ybrew]

5 words:

Commercial-skip

(That sentence would've been a lot longer if I didn't have automatic commercial skip enabled)

[Walrus78]

I appreciate everyone's feedback on this. For it depends on the time of the year. In summer we end up recording a lot more in HD on non OTA (like TNT HD for instance). To be fair, during fall and spring we'd use a lot more of the network channels that are OTA. Commercial skip is a big feature (that I never used), but would have been good for me to implement.

I don't think I'll drop SageTV entirely, but it might go into hibernation or a while. I don't want to stop having a computer that outputs in 1080p to my beautiful new tv. SageTv will be on there, but it may not do any TV stuff for a while.

Thanks everyone.

[mc2wheels]

If you switch now, then you won't be able to start every day by checking to see if the HD extender is finally out. That sort of edge of you seat anticipation is worth all of your TNT HD recordings on your Time Warner box.

[Walrus78]

Originally Posted by mc2wheels

If you switch now, then you won't be able to start every day by checking to see if the HD extender is finally out. That sort of edge of you seat anticipation is worth all of your TNT HD recordings on your Time Warner box.

Believe it or not, I'm still checking for this every day, sometimes twice a day. It might sway my decision some if it comes out soon.

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by mc2wheels

If you switch now, then you won't be able to start every day by checking to see if the HD extender is finally out.

I have sort drifted away from Sage TV too. At least for our main TV viewing, My wife loves here Direct Tivo & even though I have an HD homerun for clear QAM off cable. Sage gets used mostly as a back up and for occaisional HD stuff. I want premium HD content not just network stuff. So I will likely be upgrading my Direct Tivo to a Direct TV HD DVR soon. No matter how we fight it we are never gona get a simple fix for premium HD content.
I still intend on keeping Sage TV and look everyday for the release of the HD Extender its not going to satisfy all my needs.

[limiter]

I agree that this will become an issue for many people in the next few years. With more and more HD channels coming Sage won't be able to record them in their native format (unless they are clear QAM), at least not without a cablecard tuner (which we'll never ever see from what I've been reading).

I have an HDHomeRun and I can record 5 of 14 of my HD channels OTA and clear QAM in HD with Sage, but more are coming and that ratio will get worse. If my cable company goes all digital (like Comcast did in Chicago) I either pay an absurd amount for extra cable boxes and IR blasters, or I lose 3 tuners.

At some point an HD Tivo with cable card will be more tempting. Even though I do lose all those features people have talked about in this thread, the most important feature for me is recording TV and watching that TV at the highest quality possible. Unless a cable card tuner is sold for home-built PVRs Sage and other software won't work for me any longer in a year, which is a shame because I love it. It's no fault of Sage (or any of the other software), it's because of the ridiculous restrictions from cable-labs on PC cable card tuners.

[Trepidati0n]

As long as Sage gets the HD extender out and it can handle 264 and VC-1 formats with subtitles supported...sage will exist for a long time in our hose because of its streaming ability.

I've resided to myself that we are going to go through a period of 5+ years of "dark times" where integration will take a step backwards.

[flavius]

If comcast is going to deliver a decent HD STB, maybe later this year, I will rent it. As I'm renting the crappy one, right now.

If there will be not HD extender in the near future, I think, Sage is going to take a hit.

[valnar]

I was just going to start a thread saying something similar. I'm a long time Sage user and I have mostly old analog TV's with either the MVP or a PC attached. Of course, I can watch over the Internet from my SageTV box with Placeshifter as well or locally with the Sage client on any PC.

I've been living in an analog cableTV world so my Hauppauge tuners have been fine. I am going to get an HDTV soon and what tempted me to do so is the beautiful clear QAM TV shows I can watch from the HDHomeRun on my PC monitor. Yah, that would be nice on a big screen HDTV.

So fast forward to 2007 like the OP said, and what do we do? I can only get clear QAM channels. If I want more HD channels, I need my provider's DVR/tuner box, and then I need one per TV. 'No way to record off that to Sage. No archiving. No channel skipping. But what can I do?

So it looks like my choice is to either go with the flow get my digital cable TV service's PVR or tuner for each TV in the house, or continue to record analog cable on the Hauppauge cards with clear channel QAM HD on the HDHomeRun. Any other HD, I'm SOL.

I'd like to say that the upcoming HD Extender will make a big difference, but it won't. How will it? It only replaces a dedicated HTPC next to your HDTV. It doesn't record any more shows. It doesn't really make the "big picture" any better.

So what's the current state-of-the-art method of recording and distributing HD in your home? I fear it's not a Sage solution, though I'm trying my best to figure one out.

Anyone?

Robert

[Jesse]

Hi,

As I said above, I think there is still hope. There is still the Directv/Microsoft PCI tuner as well as the possibility of real time HD capture.

I have read some things that confirm that the Directv pci tuner is still in the works (albeit slowly and apparently behind schedule). I have not heard anything about the fujitsu encoder chips in quite a while. I am hoping this means someone is working had on a capture card based on these chips. Providers could, of course, kill HD output on component but that will only be a concern when and if the cards appear.

Jesse

[Nate]

I record cable HD through firewire using Sage, so you don't have to go OTA if you want HD.

I have also been waiting for a Sage HD extender for a loooong time.

[Walrus78]

Originally Posted by Nate

I record cable HD through firewire using Sage, so you don't have to go OTA if you want HD.

I have also been waiting for a Sage HD extender for a loooong time.

Whats your setup that allows this to happen? I wasn't aware of the model that I have(Scientific Atlanta 8300C) that allowed it to work with Time Warner.

[Nate]

I have Comcast. Forget which cable box it is... DCT6200 maybe? I followed instructions from a thread on this forum about recording through firewire from a STB (set top box). I have read that the cable companies are forced by law to output over firewire, or something like that.

I also meant to mention that I record digital channels. Instead of coming out of the STB and going to the TV, it goes to a capture card and is recorded. Channels are changed on the STB over firewire, but can also be done with an IR blaster. I'm confused why you said, "I can't do digital channels(other than Clear QAM if I feel like buying HDHomeRun)"? I admit to not knowing what HDHomeRun is.

[roxy99]

You can't fool around and tweak your PVR like you can with Sage.