Is the STV plague speading through BTV?

[mickp]

Originally Posted by cmcquistion

Can the My Videos thing work with ISO files, though?

I don't think so. There's a thread here for a plugin/hack to support this which takes a similar approach to that used by the DVD Library plugin. From a quick read of the thread tho it seems like there are issues with sagemc and Sage 6 so it might not be a solution . I only had twenty or so ISO movies so I just mounted them and copied the directories out.

Originally Posted by cmcquistion

If not, can it work with VOB files that have just been ripped into a file structure. (Take the ISO's and unpack them into a directory?)

Yes. This will work fine.

Originally Posted by cmcquistion

I've been using DVD Profiler to catalog my DVD's for DVD Library (about 250 of them). Can I just import the DVD Profiler XML and go from there or do I have to go through some manual process for every movie?

I haven't used dvd profiler so I can't speak authoratively on it but... There is a setting in sagemc to let it know where your profiler xml is at. I'm unsure if you need to visit each dvd and update it from dvd profiler or not. Someone with experience is bound to jump in here. If not you will be able to get a lucid response from this thread.

Mick.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by flavius

GB PVR is still a one man show, isn't it? Or has he gotten any help?

Originally Posted by mickp

From what I can see on the forums it's still just Sub. Pretty impressive for one guy.

Mick.

I don't know for sure so correct me if I'm wrong, but coding wise, I always got the impression that SageTV was also a one man show: Narflex. I'm guessing over the last couple of years he hired more people, but I think he's still the main brain behind the codes.

But in terms of themes, plugins, and add-ons, there's quite a lot of bright people contributing to the SageTV community. I think thats one area that adds major value to SageTV that other products might not have.

[gplasky]

Frey had hired some programmers a ways back. That is why they are able to keep the Linux platform running across many different distributions and also why a Mac version was able to come out and quickly become production-worthy. I mean don't kid yourself, no matter how good a programmer is it would be difficult to have expertise across Windows, Mac and Linux even if you're just using java across all the platforms. (There's more to it than that.)

And then you have Opus 4, a forum administrator, masquerading as a programmer also. tee-hee. (Love ya Babe.)


Gerry

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by mickp

I haven't used dvd profiler so I can't speak authoratively on it but... There is a setting in sagemc to let it know where your profiler xml is at. I'm unsure if you need to visit each dvd and update it from dvd profiler or not. Someone with experience is bound to jump in here. If not you will be able to get a lucid response from this thread.

I use DVD Profiler 2.4 with SageMC and I believe it picks up changes automatically (it's been a while). At most, you have to hit "option" and choose to rescan the video directories. I remember hearing about problems with using DVD Profiler 3 and not sure if that has been resolved. Also, I sometimes have to tweak the name of the directory in which the movie files are stored for the image and other data to work.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by gplasky

And then you have Opus 4, a forum administrator, masquerading as a programmer also.

Actually, I've always looked at myself the other way around - I was a game programmer (3 published titles of my own + other credits) long before I heard of online forums.

Edit: this side topic has been continued here.

- Andy

[dmeglio]

Lot's of people here are saying what is wrong with BTV. I'd like to turn it around if I could... what did BTV have that Sage lacks/doesn't do as well. This will serve as a nice suggestion list for the Sage team and it will help people like me that are still trying to decide between sage and BTV.

Thanks

[CollinR]

When you open the box BTV seems to have a more polished, drawing feel.

It's easy to created that when you can do so little, thats basically it.

[dlandrum]

Everything you see in the GUI is controlled by Snapstream. So I think the features it has are at times better architected than with Sage. Those features are maintained from release-to-release.

There are many plugins for Sage written by enthusiasts. As a programmer, I know these are fun at first, but over time they become a nuisance to support. Hopefully the plugins you use get picked-up by another enthusiast developer ... or eventually integrated into SageTV.

[tmiranda]

IMHO BTV has a better "out of the box" experience: The default UI catches the eye, it has built in commercial detection and skipping, built in DVD burning, built in H.264 support.

What I notice is that many BTV users "outgrow" it and after learning about various other options go to Sage.

[Khristopher]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

IMHO BTV has a better "out of the box" experience: The default UI catches the eye, it has built in commercial detection and skipping, built in DVD burning, built in H.264 support.

What I notice is that many BTV users "outgrow" it and after learning about various other options go to Sage.

Just to clarify, BTV does NOT come with built in DVD burning.....that is an add-on you have to pay extra for.

As for the commercial detection, it works, however I've found ComSkip to be much more reliable, and BTV does not allow AUTOMATIC commercial skipping.

Granted, it looks a little bit prettier on the outside, but once you get past that facade you see what it's lacking. Integration was the do or die feature which I couldn't live without.

As for the "out of box" experience......I recall doing a lot more configuring and tweaking to get BTV to work, whereas Sage has been relatively painless in comparison.

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

IMHO BTV has a better "out of the box" experience: The default UI catches the eye, it has built in commercial detection and skipping, built in DVD burning, built in H.264 support.

What I notice is that many BTV users "outgrow" it and after learning about various other options go to Sage.

To be fair, I used to be one of the ones who often compared the "out of the box" UI of BeyondTV to SageTV, and often claimed that the BeyondTV interface was better. I don't really think that anymore, especially after stanger89's post here

I haven't looked at BeyondTV in a while, but I think that the basic UI structures are too similar to declare one definitively better than the other. I do think that SageTV has come a long way in this area (especially since version 6.2), although I still think that more can be done to make the product feel seamless (especially between the Media Center and the Recorded TV section).

Originally Posted by dmeglio

Lot's of people here are saying what is wrong with BTV. I'd like to turn it around if I could... what did BTV have that Sage lacks/doesn't do as well. This will serve as a nice suggestion list for the Sage team and it will help people like me that are still trying to decide between sage and BTV.

If you really want to delve into a lot of different perspectives on the UI, you need to read this thread. A lot of it is outdated, and many of the suggestions that came up in this discussion were added to Sage 6.2. You may also want to read my summary of the thread here.

You may also want to take a look here; I have to admit, this is the thread where I quit commenting on UI improvements because people stopped discussing the issue, and started focusing more on scoring geek points.

Stu

[dmeglio]

Hmm the only thing I'm hearing that really bothers me is the lack of integrated DVD burning. Yes I know BTV sells it as a separate plugin, but I'd rather spend $30 to have an integrated solution rather than what basically amounts to a hack to get it to work in Sage... any reason why this feature has not been added?

[tmiranda]

To be fair, I used to be one of the ones who often compared the "out of the box" UI of BeyondTV to SageTV, and often claimed that the BeyondTV interface was better. I don't really think that anymore, especially after stanger89's post here

100% agree. I like the updated Sage interface a lot better. Give Sage credit, they heard a lot of complaining and made changes.

Just to clarify, BTV does NOT come with built in DVD burning.....that is an add-on you have to pay extra for.

Very true. I also think they will charge extra for the H.264, but I'm not 100% certain on that.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying BTV is overall better. But I always think you can learn something from watching the competition, even if it is what NOT to do. I read the BTV forums and can tell you I do not see many Sage users switching to BTV but I do see a lot going the other way.

[Baylo]

Originally Posted by Khristopher

Just to clarify, BTV does NOT come with built in DVD burning.....that is an add-on you have to pay extra for.

Well that depends on how you look at it, doesn't it?

Personally, I would consider it to be built in since it is written into the basic code, and is not a third-party plugin. I think Snapstream did themselves a disservice by calling this functionality a plugin. They should have said "we have two versions: 'basic' (without DVD burning) and 'advanced' (with DVD burning), and there's a $30 price difference." Since the functionality is simply activated with a new license code it's not really a whole lot different from the way in which extender functionality is activated by purchasing an additional license - the code's already there, it's just not activated. If you buy the DVD license at the same time as you buy the 'basic' program - and the check mark is right there on the 'buy now' page - then you just get the one license code that makes it all work.

But I would agree with one of the comments above that BTV tends to people's first experience of DVRs, and then they 'graduate' to Sage when they can handle the added complexity (power = complexity, right?) I might do the same thing soon (or at least whenever the HD extender materializes), but when I first looked at BTV and Sage 4 years ago, BTV was hands down the winner, especially where the WAF was concerned. It seems to me that Sage has had to rely on their user base for functionality that Snapstream did inhouse, including having a useable UI. Luckily for Sage, the gamble paid off.

Mark

[Khristopher]

Originally Posted by Baylo

Personally, I would consider it to be built in since it is written into the basic code, and is not a third-party plugin. I think Snapstream did themselves a disservice by calling this functionality a plugin. They should have said "we have two versions: 'basic' (without DVD burning) and 'advanced' (with DVD burning), and there's a $30 price difference." Since the functionality is simply activated with a new license code it's not really a whole lot different from the way in which extender functionality is activated by purchasing an additional license - the code's already there, it's just not activated. If you buy the DVD license at the same time as you buy the 'basic' program - and the check mark is right there on the 'buy now' page - then you just get the one license code that makes it all work.

I agree with you whole-heartedly!! I was very vocal when SS first released their "plug-in" and chastised them on the forums.

The traditional definition of a plug-in is an external program that does not come with the original product. As you said, the burning code is built into the program itself and only becomes active when the proper license is applied. This is definitely NOT a plug-in.

SS prides themselves on giving away "point releases for free", and again, I was very vocal on the forums with regards to them releasing the DVD burning feature as a "plug-in" so that they could charge extra for it. In reality, it was built into the basic code and therefore should have been included for free.

This is a prime example of the tactics which drove me away from BTV.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by Khristopher

I agree with you whole-heartedly!! I was very vocal when SS first released their "plug-in" and chastised them on the forums.

The traditional definition of a plug-in is an external program that does not come with the original product. As you said, the burning code is built into the program itself and only becomes active when the proper license is applied. This is definitely NOT a plug-in.

SS prides themselves on giving away "point releases for free", and again, I was very vocal on the forums with regards to them releasing the DVD burning feature as a "plug-in" so that they could charge extra for it. In reality, it was built into the basic code and therefore should have been included for free.

This is a prime example of the tactics which drove me away from BTV.

To be fair, BTV is prolly licensing the DVD burning engine from Sonic or some other company so that $30 is there to cover the additional cost.

Edit: That being said, they really don't add much value to it on their end. The motion menus are nice, but they have so much meta data at their disposal from the EPG listing that they don't use at all. Just a poorly word wrapped Title/Episode string. In addition, I believe the format support is pretty limited as well.

[Khristopher]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

To be fair, BTV is prolly licensing the DVD burning engine from Sonic or some other company so that $30 is there to cover the additional cost.

I'll give you that, however in the same breath, they should have developed it as a TRUE Plug-In and not built into the base code for the program. They've contradicted one of their selling points of "Free Point Releases" by doing this.

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Edit: That being said, they really don't add much value to it on their end. The motion menus are nice, but they have so much meta data at their disposal from the EPG listing that they don't use at all. Just a poorly word wrapped Title/Episode string. In addition, I believe the format support is pretty limited as well.

It's a horrendous implementation. 9 time out of 10, the thumbnail used is completely irrelevant or is simply black.

[warwon]

For me I left cause of the lack of integration

I was running Media Portal and Beyond TV

A lot of space and resources went to that, and Media Portal was slow, and hardly worked.

My girlfreind doesn't want to figure stuff out it should work, Media Portal doesn't just work there's a lot of IFs in that software.

BeyondTV was nice but it only did TV, I couldn't do a thing in it beyond that.

Sure it did what it was, but why not more?

Anyways Sagetv Records TV, it can acutally play DVD *working on burning DVD's* it can access and save IMDB information (*I wish there was a batch progress for this*)

But Sagetv for support, and the placeshift is amazing

[jdamore]

Thanks for the insight everybody! And thanks for not trash talking the competition but only stating YOUR OPINION and facts.

Since I own a license for BTV v.4 I like to gander over the forum and see whats new. I am so excited about HD extender and thought, if they don't have plans for an HD client other than a htpc, I'm not even going to look any more. I searched "HD extender" and found this entertaining thread: http://forums.snapstream.com/vb/show...light=extender

Kristopher- You are relentless! How dare you reference the HD extender on a 'Vs" thread!

Regards,

Your fanboy

PS.I'll shut-up now

[Khristopher]

Originally Posted by jdamore

Kristopher- You are relentless! How dare you reference the HD extender on a 'Vs" thread!

Sometimes the pot needs to be stirred up a little!

It would be different if I hadn't used BTV for almost 3 years. I truly have first hand experience with it and IMO, it's shortcomings. Had I simply been a Sage user bashing BTV without anything to backup my heckling......that would be different!

I love the fact that SS is markteting BTV 4.7 as the *First* DVR to feature iTunes syncing (and charge extra for it). How long have Sage users been able to use Nielm's web server to do this? .....for Free!

Stuff like that ^^^^ is what drove me away from BTV, and of course SS's infamous White Whale called Integration. You know....the one that was promised 2 years ago!