questions about recording algorithm

[gveres]

I have a couple of questions to help me understand how Sage choses which shows to record:

1. I am recording Setup on SpeedHD. It aires three times in a row and Sage is recording all of them. They are the same show, so why is it recording all of them? I thought it knew that they were the same show and it would only record one of them.
2. Is there a way to have Sage pick the HD airing of a show over the SD airing? I know that I can limit the channel that I want to record from, but some shows air on multiple HD channels. I would like to give it the freedom to record from any of the HD channels but not let it record from the SD channels unless there is a conflict that prevents it from recording on an HD channel. Is this possible?
3. I am using SageMC and I have setup some of the favourites to only record 15 shows (kids shows). However, it doesn't seem to be honoring that setting. I have one series that has 23 airings and it is going to record more. I assume this is implemented such that it deletes an old one after it records a new one. Is that how it is supposed to work?

BTW, I verified that all three of the Setup airings were the same ShowID. So I really don't see why Sage is insisting on recording all three of them.

Thanks for any insight.
Greg

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by gveres

I have a couple of questions to help me understand how Sage choses which shows to record:

1. I am recording Setup on SpeedHD. It aires three times in a row and Sage is recording all of them. They are the same show, so why is it recording all of them? I thought it knew that they were the same show and it would only record one of them.
2. Is there a way to have Sage pick the HD airing of a show over the SD airing? I know that I can limit the channel that I want to record from, but some shows air on multiple HD channels. I would like to give it the freedom to record from any of the HD channels but not let it record from the SD channels unless there is a conflict that prevents it from recording on an HD channel. Is this possible?
3. I am using SageMC and I have setup some of the favourites to only record 15 shows (kids shows). However, it doesn't seem to be honoring that setting. I have one series that has 23 airings and it is going to record more. I assume this is implemented such that it deletes an old one after it records a new one. Is that how it is supposed to work?

BTW, I verified that all three of the Setup airings were the same ShowID. So I really don't see why Sage is insisting on recording all three of them.

Thanks for any insight.
Greg

1. Are all three marked as new episodes? If so, Sage will keep recording them. I had the same problem with the show PTI. It would record on ESPN and ESPN News an hour later...Luckily with that one I was able to get around it by just telling Sage to only record ESPN.
2. Yes set the merit to your recording devices (see manual). You can have one tuner be your preferred recording device. Generally the HD is the preferred, but if you aren't seeing this, then that is the next thing to try.
3. Can't help you there as I don't use SageMC....Anyone else know about this one?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gveres

BTW, I verified that all three of the Setup airings were the same ShowID. So I really don't see why Sage is insisting on recording all three of them.

Is it an EP# or SH#, if it's an SH# then that's one number applied to every episode of a show and Sage can't tell them apart, if it's an EP# then Sage can tell them apart and shouldn't record more than one.

I believe Sage by default tries to record the HD version first.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by gveres

I am recording Setup on SpeedHD. It aires three times in a row and Sage is recording all of them. They are the same show, so why is it recording all of them? I thought it knew that they were the same show and it would only record one of them.

To go along with what was said above already, there's a FAQ for this: Does SageTV know enough to record a show only once? I see that one of my favorites is scheduled to air 3 times this week -- How many of those will be recorded?

Check out the post after that one too, since it has more about scheduling.

I am using SageMC and I have setup some of the favourites to only record 15 shows (kids shows). However, it doesn't seem to be honoring that setting. I have one series that has 23 airings and it is going to record more. I assume this is implemented such that it deletes an old one after it records a new one. Is that how it is supposed to work?

In the default STV, Favs can be set to record to a limit and can be set to allow them to be auto-deleted or not. See pages 69-70 in the v6.3b PDF manual for details about how those settings work together. Note that with manual-only deletion, it is possible to have extra recordings created before the scheduler sees that the limit has been reached & updates the schedule accordingly.

If those settings don't match what SageMC allows, then ask in the SageMC forum for help with its settings.

- Andy

[mickp]

Originally Posted by gveres

[*]I am using SageMC and I have setup some of the favourites to only record 15 shows (kids shows). However, it doesn't seem to be honoring that setting. I have one series that has 23 airings and it is going to record more. I assume this is implemented such that it deletes an old one after it records a new one. Is that how it is supposed to work?

Something like that. I'm not observant enough to have noticed if it deletes after the next recording or at the same time.

I have several news/current affair etc shows that I've limited to one or two recordings because they're things that aren't that interesting to keep for longer (unless you're the kind of person who can't move in their house for the towers of mouldering newspapers ) and have never experienced any problems. Any time I check these shows Sage has only the most recent x number of that show.

I've also never enabled the "auto fill your drive with shows that you don't ever want to watch" feature (can't remember what it's realy called atm but you'll know what i'm referring to) which might make a difference.

Mick.

[BFisher]

Originally Posted by gveres

[*]I am using SageMC and I have setup some of the favourites to only record 15 shows (kids shows). However, it doesn't seem to be honoring that setting. I have one series that has 23 airings and it is going to record more. I assume this is implemented such that it deletes an old one after it records a new one. Is that how it is supposed to work?

Do you have your favorite set to keep until I delete? And "Keep Up to" as 15? If so, what should happen is it records 15, and stops. Once you delete 1, then it will record another. Once in a while, it could exceed 15 if the shows are back-to-back because future shows don't get cleared out of the schedule until it's done recording and it's already started recording so it records it.

If you have the Keep Until Space is Needed set (instead of until I delete), then I think it will keep recording them until you need more hard drive space. It does not work like TiVos keep at most where it just throws out the oldest version to stay at the keep at most number.

After getting used to the Keep Until I Delete method - we really like it. Records a lot less often...

[MeInMaui]

In SageMC, if you set it to keep at most 15 and keep until I delete, it will record 15 airings and stop until you delete one or more. It will then record new airings up to 15 again. If you set it to keep until space is needed, then it will continue to record new airings and delete the oldest airings to maintain a total of 15. I have noticed that there are instances where you might end up with more than this, but I'm not sure of the exact conditions. It seems like it sometimes ignores pre-existing recordings in the count when you set the number to keep. It never bothered me because I have always been able to manually delete the extra recordings and then it would keep the count properly. AFAIK, SageMC just uses the core functionality for this.

Aloha,
Mike

[Opus4]

BTW: the count may appear to go over the limit when IR is enabled and it records airings of the show not covered by a Fav that is limited to certain channels, times, etc. Example: you have a Fav for First Runs; IR might record reruns & make it look like the Fav's limit has been exceeded. I think someone referred to this above.

- Andy

[Djc208]

Along this same thread. Sage recorded a favorite set to "first runs only" the other day and then I think the IR picked up the rerun to record later. Problem was I couldn't clear just one of them before or after it recorded, if I chose "don't like" or "watched" for the IR then it would apply the same marking to the favorite.
It happenend two or three times but only for this one series. Will IR record a show that's already on your drive but not watched yet?

[CollinR]

Zap2It is the weak link, they drop the ball far more then Sage's recording engine no doubts from me.

No SageMC but I do use the limit to and it seem to limit to the number set. I delete one and it adds one.

[gveres]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

In SageMC, if you set it to keep at most 15 and keep until I delete, it will record 15 airings and stop until you delete one or more. It will then record new airings up to 15 again. If you set it to keep until space is needed, then it will continue to record new airings and delete the oldest airings to maintain a total of 15. I have noticed that there are instances where you might end up with more than this, but I'm not sure of the exact conditions. It seems like it sometimes ignores pre-existing recordings in the count when you set the number to keep. It never bothered me because I have always been able to manually delete the extra recordings and then it would keep the count properly. AFAIK, SageMC just uses the core functionality for this.

Aloha,
Mike

Hi Mike,

That might be what I am seeing. I did an import of a bunch of BTV recordings and that might have been what allowed it to go over 15.

Thanks for letting me know how it is supposed to work, which was exactly how I would expect it to work.

Greg

[gveres]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Is it an EP# or SH#, if it's an SH# then that's one number applied to every episode of a show and Sage can't tell them apart, if it's an EP# then Sage can tell them apart and shouldn't record more than one.

I believe Sage by default tries to record the HD version first.

It was an SH#. I don't know how to find the EP#. The SageMC interface showed me the SH#.

I don't recall now if the subsequent ones were marked as first run or repeats since the first airing of the week might have been considered the first run.

Now the show is over for the season so I will have to see if this happens on other series. My first impression is that it was happening on all the series.

BTW, these were all aired on the same channel, but at different time through the week.

Greg

[gveres]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

2. Yes set the merit to your recording devices (see manual). You can have one tuner be your preferred recording device. Generally the HD is the preferred, but if you aren't seeing this, then that is the next thing to try.

BTW, I don't think merit is what I was looking for. I am not talking about different tuners, I only have the one HD capable tuner connected to Sage.

I want to ensure that it choses to record a show on SpeedHD (channel 274) vs Speed (channel 406). They have the exact same programming all the time, but one channel is in HD and the other is SD.

The same thing happens with the movie channels. There are 6 SD movie channels and 2 HD movie channels. When I record a movie, I want to have it record from the HD channels.

I know that there is a setting to limit a favourite to a specific channel and I am doing that now. But in the movie channel case, i don't care which of the two movie channels it records on.

Again, thanks for all your help guys.
Greg

[gveres]

Originally Posted by gveres

It was an SH#. I don't know how to find the EP#. The SageMC interface showed me the SH#.

I don't recall now if the subsequent ones were marked as first run or repeats since the first airing of the week might have been considered the first run.

Now the show is over for the season so I will have to see if this happens on other series. My first impression is that it was happening on all the series.

BTW, these were all aired on the same channel, but at different time through the week.

Greg

Ah Andy's pointer to the FAQ expained what SH and EP mean. Now I understand better. I will go check the other shows that I think I saw multiple recordings for.

It looks like SpeedTV programs are lame and only have an SH #. The three that I have checked so far only have the SH, not an EP.

This is great info guys. Thanks for sharing. Now its off to re-read the FAQ thread. I am sure more of it will sink in now.

I am still wondering how to get it to record HD content before SD content from the same tuner. The other questions have been answered.

Greg

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by gveres

I am still wondering how to get it to record HD content before SD content from the same tuner. The other questions have been answered.Greg

How is your computer connected to your source (cable, sat, tuner box, tuner card)? From the sounds of things you have a cable or satalite box connected to this tuner? If that's the case then you can only capture in SD (unless you somehow obtained the HD-PVR early ), so it doesn't really matter which one you capture from as both are sent to the card at SD resolution.

Does the listing have an HD tag on it? Not sure if sage will record something with the HD flag over a show without it but if the show isn't tagged HD then Sage wouldn't know one was any different from another.

[gveres]

I am recording HD just fine. I have a sat box with the R5000 mod.

My problem is not that I can't get it to record HD, I do get HD recordings.

My problem is that I want the scheduling algorthm to do its best to prefer to record HD content vs SD content. For instance, when the show airs at the same time on SpeedHD and on Speed, I want it to always pick to record SpeedHD because I want the HD content, not the SD version.

This exact scenerio happened the other night. I don't know what else was going on, but it recorded a show off of Speed (SD channel 406) instead of off of SpeedHD (HD channel 274). There is no reason why it should have picked 406 instead of 274.

When BTV introduced HD recording, they added a setting that when checked told the scheduler to try to record HD content over SD content. I am asking if there is a similar setting somewhere in the Sage setting universe. However, based on the responses, I am assuming there is not.

If I make the assumption that there is no setting somewhere to tell Sage to prefer to record HD content over SD content (of the same show), how does Sage managing the choice?

Thanks
Greg

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by gveres

I am recording HD just fine. I have a sat box with the R5000 mod.

My problem is not that I can't get it to record HD, I do get HD recordings.

My problem is that I want the scheduling algorthm to do its best to prefer to record HD content vs SD content. For instance, when the show airs at the same time on SpeedHD and on Speed, I want it to always pick to record SpeedHD because I want the HD content, not the SD version.

This exact scenerio happened the other night. I don't know what else was going on, but it recorded a show off of Speed (SD channel 406) instead of off of SpeedHD (HD channel 274). There is no reason why it should have picked 406 instead of 274.

Why not just disable 406 in the lineup? Assuming Speed and Speed HD have the same schedule, there's no reason to have both in your lineup.

When BTV introduced HD recording, they added a setting that when checked told the scheduler to try to record HD content over SD content. I am asking if there is a similar setting somewhere in the Sage setting universe. However, based on the responses, I am assuming there is not.

I thought Sage automatically preferred HD recordings. Are the Speed HD recordings actually HD (not upconverts) and are they flagged as HD in the guide (there's a UI setting to mark HD recordings).

Just browsing DirecTV's listings, only a handful of shows are tagged as HD in a given day.

[gveres]

In fact, I was just looking through my up coming recordings. I was looking at boston legal which is airing on about 10 different channels at various times. It is airing on the SD channels in 21 hours and on the HD channels about 3 to 4 hours later.

Sage picked the first SD channel airing to record from. I would have hoped it would have waited the three hours and recorded it off of one of the two HD channels that were airing it.

The HD airings were tagged as HD in the guide data.

I hadn't thought about disabling 406 from the lineup. That's a good idea. It doesn't help the Boston Legal problem here because there are two distinct HD channels that are showing it at two different times during the week. I would like to leave the scheduler the freedom to choose either HD channel based on which time fits the overall schedule best.

Greg

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Why not just disable 406 in the lineup? Assuming Speed and Speed HD have the same schedule, there's no reason to have both in your lineup.

This is what I've had to do, though it's still not perfect. Ideally I'd like to see a setting on favorites which allows you to specify HD-only, SD-only, or either. That way I don't have to worry about HD children's shows randomly showing up, or shows that are in SD or HD on entirely different channels (Torchwood is HD on HDNet about 2 weeks after it airs in SD on BBCA).

[BFisher]

that's weird Greg... mine always picks the HD version when possible. Is there a conflict at the time of the HD showing?