Newbie Question #2

[pmcenroe]

Please confirm that my understanding is correct.
I subscribe to HD cable in Cincinnati and want to use SageTV with two HD media Extenders on two HD TV's. Right now I have one DVR and on set top box from the cable co. In the best case, I'd like to be able to record two shows and at the same time watch recorded or live TV on both TVs. For this setup, I suppose I would need 4 cable boxes, correct? Then those boxes would feed into a TV input card on my PC (or perhaps more than one card).

Our, would I be better off to buy two Hauppauge HD-PVR's (I'm worried about too much load on the PC)?

I am worried about having to use cable boxes and IR blaster to control them as there is no way to be sure the box accepted the command that was sent.

Should I consider switching to DirectTV instead of Time Warner Cable (and then use serial control instead of IR?)

Thanks,

Pat

[mayamaniac]

You don't need 4 cable boxes unless you want to record or watch 4 different channels at once.

You need the HD-PVR if you want to recorded encrypted HD channels (ESPN, HDNET, HBO, etc). As for channel controls, you can do it via firewire. I have Time warner and their motorola boxes (DCH3200/6200) have firewire.

[pjpjpjpj]

You only need two cable boxes - one for each simultaneous recording in Sage (“recording” is equal to “watching live” since Sage records everything even if you are watching in real time). You also need an HD-PVR for each cable box. The HD-PVRs have an IR blaster to change the channel on your cable box so they need to be with their respective cable box, but they are USB so they need to be near the server (typically people have all of their cable boxes and HD-PVRs with the server, all in one location). Then you just have an Extender at each TV.

On another note, I have found that you should have at least N+1 tuners, if "N" is how many televisions/extenders you have. There will always be a time when two people are watching two "live" shows on the two TVs and someone is wanting to record something else. Of course, around here, 10 tuners are not uncommon. And, on that note, since you already have the cable, if you watch a lot of shows on network TV (sitcoms, sports, local news), you could buy a tuner with QAM capability, such as the HDHomerun (which has 2), and that would give you more digital/HD tuners (though only the unencrypted channels), without having to get another box (and associated monthly fees) from the cable company.

Glad to have another Cincinnatian on here. I thought I was the only one.

On edit, since mayamaniac jumped in just ahead of me, he's right; if your cable box has firewire conenctivity, you could use that in lieu of an HD-PVR... but it seems like everyone is going the HD-PVR route lately...

[kevine]

I would think that if you QAM the most economical system you should think about are 2 cable boxes, 2 HD PVR and 1 HDHR. You run the risk of wanting to watch something on the cable boxes when 2 shows are recording live but that chance is slim. You might want to check what channels come in clear QAM here.

[GKusnick]

Step one is to define your goals clearly. If you want to be able to record two programs at once and simultaneously channel-surf at random on two different TVs, then you will need four video sources. If you just want to be able watch a program "live" while it's recording, you don't need a separate source for that; Sage can play back from a recording in progress before it's finished.

You may find, as most of us have, that your desire to channel-surf pretty much disappears once you've scheduled all your frequently watched programs to record and have a library of recorded episodes built up. So planning around the ability to channel-surf freely may not be the best strategy.

The other factor, as has already been mentioned, is which channels you do most of your watching on. If you watch a lot of regular network programming, then you probably don't need an STB to record those shows; you can receive them off the air or directly from your cable feed using a QAM tuner. STBs will be necessary only for encrypted digital cable channels that you can't get any other way. Figure out which shows you watch on those channels, and how many of those shows are on opposite each other (with no alternate airings), and that's how many STBs you need. Cable shows tend to re-air several times throughout the week, so you may find that you can get away with just one STB in addition to your OTA/QAM tuners.

I have four OTA tuners and just one satellite STB, and I rarely get scheduling conflicts. But as mentioned, I basically never channel-surf.

[pmcenroe]

All:

Thank you for your quick responses. Greg you are of course right - defining the goal is the key.

I Think that PJ's point is good - maybe only 2 cable boxes are needed, and then I could set up an antenna in the attic to get the major networks, I suppose that one antenna could be split to to two tuners?. KevinE - I checked the QAM site - it looks like the local stations have more resolution over the air than I get on TWC.

We really don't watch much in the way of live TV since we got the DVR from the cable company...but it does happen on occasion.

Our non-DVR STB is SA 4240HDC. It does have an IR port on the back, I'll do some research on controlling that.

Can I copy content to a DVD, portable hard drive, or memory stick easily? That is a very important part of justification for the project...I'd like to be able to take content 'to go' and some times I go places where 'place shifting' won't work due to limited bandwidth.

One last question and I should be ready to go....will all this work flawlessly, such that my wife will not have to worry about rebooting servers, resetting devices, etc? I don't want to spend the money and then end up getting a call from my wife while I'm on a business trip....

Thanks,
Pat

[pmcenroe]

Another question just came to mind....I assume if we want to watch Pay Per View then I need to either:

1 - connect the STB to the TV or

2 - make my selection using 'live TV' and then record using the HD-PVR or

3 - skip the PPV altogether and use NetFlix or something similar to download content directly from the internet.

Thanks,

Pat

[pmcenroe]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

You only need two cable boxes - one for each simultaneous recording in Sage (“recording” is equal to “watching live” since Sage records everything even if you are watching in real time). You also need an HD-PVR for each cable box. The HD-PVRs have an IR blaster to change the channel on your cable box so they need to be with their respective cable box, but they are USB so they need to be near the server (typically people have all of their cable boxes and HD-PVRs with the server, all in one location). Then you just have an Extender at each TV.

On another note, I have found that you should have at least N+1 tuners, if "N" is how many televisions/extenders you have. There will always be a time when two people are watching two "live" shows on the two TVs and someone is wanting to record something else. Of course, around here, 10 tuners are not uncommon. And, on that note, since you already have the cable, if you watch a lot of shows on network TV (sitcoms, sports, local news), you could buy a tuner with QAM capability, such as the HDHomerun (which has 2), and that would give you more digital/HD tuners (though only the unencrypted channels), without having to get another box (and associated monthly fees) from the cable company.

Glad to have another Cincinnatian on here. I thought I was the only one.

On edit, since mayamaniac jumped in just ahead of me, he's right; if your cable box has firewire conenctivity, you could use that in lieu of an HD-PVR... but it seems like everyone is going the HD-PVR route lately...

PJ - My box (SA4240HDC) does have two 1394 (FireWire?) ports - if I have this do I need the HD-PVR? What are the advantages?

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by pmcenroe

PJ - My box (SA4240HDC) does have two 1394 (FireWire?) ports - if I have this do I need the HD-PVR? What are the advantages?

Most likely you will still need the HD-PVR. Generally the firewire port will allow you to copy the stream as it comes into the box which means that many of the channels will still have their encryption when you record them via Firewire. Obviously you can't playback something that is encrypted. However, you can test this if you have a computer with a firewire port. Even if you still need to use an HDPVR, generally you can use the firewire port to at least change the channel (which is just like the serial control of DirecTV).

As far as your question about how this will affect your wife. My wife love's Sage. We have 6 extenders (3 HD100, and 3 MediaMVP). She really liked Tivo, but when we went to Sage and the ability to be watching something in the living room (recorded), hit stop, and then go to bed and finish watching the show in the bedroom from where we left off sold her. We rarely have to reboot the server and most reboots are hardware issues and those are generally few and far between.

[pmcenroe]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

Most likely you will still need the HD-PVR. Generally the firewire port will allow you to copy the stream as it comes into the box which means that many of the channels will still have their encryption when you record them via Firewire. Obviously you can't playback something that is encrypted. However, you can test this if you have a computer with a firewire port. Even if you still need to use an HDPVR, generally you can use the firewire port to at least change the channel (which is just like the serial control of DirecTV).

As far as your question about how this will affect your wife. My wife love's Sage. We have 6 extenders (3 HD100, and 3 MediaMVP). She really liked Tivo, but when we went to Sage and the ability to be watching something in the living room (recorded), hit stop, and then go to bed and finish watching the show in the bedroom from where we left off sold her. We rarely have to reboot the server and most reboots are hardware issues and those are generally few and far between.

Thanks Paul. I just plugged my laptop into one of the Firewire ports. Looks like I need to install a driver so I'll go fishing for that.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by pmcenroe

I Think that PJ's point is good - maybe only 2 cable boxes are needed, and then I could set up an antenna in the attic to get the major networks, I suppose that one antenna could be split to to two tuners?

What part of town are you in? Cincinnati is pretty hilly, but the downtown towers (most locals) are on a decent hill. I live in the northern part of the city (just inside I-275), and with an antenna in the attic I can get Cincinnati and all but one (toughest to get) Dayton stations, too. Dayton reception comes in handy to avoid the NFL blackouts on Sundays (Dayton is not subject to Cincinnati blackout rules, so you can get one extra game) and whenever there is a weather alert in town that causes the locals to kick back to SD.

Check your reception at www.tvfool.com (be sure to take a reasonable guess at your attic-mounted antenna "height", as this can make a big difference with Cinci's hills).

The HD Homerun ("HDHR") unit is a two-tuner ATSC (digital) unit, but can also do QAM. It comes with two short lengths of coax and a good quality splitter, so if you have a single antenna, you connect it to both tuners that way. Also, the advantage of the HDHR is that it is networked; since coax from an antenna is very lossy, you can install the HDHR in a second-floor closet just below the attic antenna and save yourself coax loss, and just fish the network cable back to your router/switch/hub.

Of course, since you already have cable, there's no reason to not use the QAM (except that, depending what part of town you are in, you may not get all of the Dayton stations). You could, of course, do both - run your cable into one of the HDHR tuners (for QAM) and run an antenna to the other (OTA) and sorta "double up" your channel availability. Though this could be done, I have not heard of anyone doing it; I would be curious to hear if there was noticeable PQ difference between an OTA station and the same station through QAM (since you could quickly flip back and forth).

Sorry to ramble... if you want to talk more about OTA in Cincinnati with regards to where you live (I've learned a lot since I started this), PM me.

-PJ