DST discussion

[mikejaner]

I hate TIME. My stupid XP machine changed it's time today, and I cannot get SageTV to cooperate. I know it's not SageTV's fault, but after an hour of changing the time on my XP box, Changing the check box for DST in the time settings, rebooting the PC, restarting SageTV, changing the hour etc..., I am to my wits end!!!!!!! I hate DST, and I hate the fact that Farmers are whiney little B1+cH3z that have to get more time for their stupid crops. Get up an hour early or whatever hippies!!!!!!!!!!
So, now I have to record shows an hour late with different names because I can't get SageTV to say it's the same hour as my XP box says it is. If I get it to say the same time, the guide show names are an hour off. What the FREAK!!!!!!!!!
And yes, I see there are java updates and Pre SP3 DST patches, but the Java on my system is up to date, and I built this system with SP3 slipstreamed in, so I cant uninstall it an do the DST Patch.
I wish SageTV could be given a command which let's you override what it thinks is right, and go with what you say.
This is my rant, and I am done.


Update:
Only the utility on this page was able to fix my problem. Even the Microsoft patch refused to install on my system
http://www.intelliadmin.com/Downloads.htm

[fearless]

I must say that unlike the issues experienced at work due to the new DST changes this year with Exchange, XP, Blackberries, Windows Mobile devices and Symbian phones, at home Sage running on Vista64 Sp1 (GO YOU GOOD THING!!!) seems to have gone smoothly through the changes without a hitch.
Having said that I noticed that quite a few XP workstations on the network behaved rather strangely and had to be given a gentle push to come into line.

Regards
Mike

[MeInMaui]

I have a simple solution to your DST woes. Move to Hawaii.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

I have a simple solution to your DST woes. Move to Hawaii.

LOLz

[mike400hp]

There is an update that you have to run from Windows Updates that will take care of this.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951072

I guess if you have automatic updates disabled then you wouldn't have gotten this patch.

[bastian74]

I installed XP Sp3 and the latest java from sun. My pc clock is correct but sage is still an hour ahead. Any ideas?

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by bastian74

I installed XP Sp3 and the latest java from sun. My pc clock is correct but sage is still an hour ahead. Any ideas?

Install the software at the link I posted above. I set my system to the right time, but Sagetv would stay an hour ahead. When I installed the utility, it fixed it.

[exclavieor]

I don't understand why my SageTV client is showing a time that is 2 hours ahead of the server it is connected to?? I have the DST updates installed on both the SageTV server and the client pc. Both pc's are showing the correct time. Accessing the SageTV server with a MVP and it shows the correct time on the tv. Why is it and how can I stop the client from showing 2 hours ahead?

* merged *

[gplasky]

Make sure you have the latest java installed with the DST updates also. Your OS will need the DST patches and other updates. Java needs to be at the latest version. Make sure all apps are shutdown when applying. Probably makes sense to reboot the box after applying. Make sure your Windows clock settings has the right time zone and automatically adjust for daylight savings is still checked. (Doesn't end until Sunday)

Gerry

[stuckless]

I have no idea is this is related, but I found an interesting bug in Java (on ubuntu) where Java was reporting the incorrect time when daylight savings was being used.

For example the current time on my computer is 3:56 PM EDT
But the following java code

import java.util.Calendar;
import java.util.TimeZone;

public class TestTime {
	public static void main(String args[]) {
		Calendar cal = (Calendar.getInstance());
		cal.setTimeZone(TimeZone.getTimeZone("EDT"));
		System.out.println("DateTime: " + cal.getTime());
	}
}

reports the time as

DateTime: Tue Oct 28 14:56:00 GMT-05:00 2008[CODE]

Which is wrong by 1 hr.

After doing some research, I found that this was quite common, and that specifying the timezone eplicitly as in the following code, fixed the problem.

import java.util.Calendar;
import java.util.TimeZone;

public class TestTime {
	public static void main(String args[]) {
		System.setProperty("user.timezone","America/Toronto");
		Calendar cal = (Calendar.getInstance());
		cal.setTimeZone(TimeZone.getTimeZone("EDT"));
		System.out.println("DateTime: " + cal.getTime());
	}
}

And the result is

DateTime: Tue Oct 28 15:59:01 EDT 2008

(this time if off only because of the time it takes me to do the tests )

But the time is correct and the Timezone is correct.

Java is supposed to pull the timezone from the system, but in my case (ubuntu) it is not pulling the timezone correctly, event though my system does have the time zone set correctly.

Since you cannot modify the sage java code, you can try to pass the timezone on the sage commandline by specifying

-Duser.timezone="America/Toronto"

Again, your problem may have nothing to do with this java bug...

[vexhold]

As a member of a farming family, I have to put you in your place. We don't like it any more than you do. And for the record it has nothing to do with farming, it was originally put in place by the Germans in WWI to conserve the energy of keeping things lit during the odd hours when time shifts. It then spread through Europe and then to the states. Of course this all happened when people "actually worked" and woke up hella earlier than we do. There are currently bills on the docket supporting the abolishion of DST. Wether or not it passes is another thing.

So LAY OFF THE FARMERS AND THEIR CROPS YOU EAT!!

Sorry, had to be said.

Thanks

[gplasky]

Found this informative:

Once you've identified the version of Java, you'll want to determine what can and can't be patched. Here are the Java versions and the ways they can be patched to be compliant with the US DST Time Changes:

Table 1: Sun, BEA and HP Java

Java Version-Java 1.4.0
Compliant Release -None
update tool -tzupdater

Java Version-Java 1.4.1
Compliant Release -None
update tool -tzupdater

Java Version-Java 1.4.2
Compliant Release -1.4.2_11
update tool -tzupdater

Java Version-Java 1.5.0
Compliant Release -1.5.0_06
update tool -tzupdater

Java Version-Java 1.6
All Versions Compliant
update tool -N/A


References:
Sun tzupdater README


If you're on a compliant version then look at your OS and its DST patches and any other updates that may be required.

Windows Daylight Saving Time Help

Following the Windows regular cadence for publishing newly legislated daylight saving time rules and time zone updates, our "Cumulative DST and Time Zone Updates" are scheduled for release each November - December (to the Download Centre and to Windows Update respectively) for the coming calendar year. When needed, Microsoft product groups may also provide a semi-annual update in the August - September timeframe. The product group will also publish the new or modified time zone information (TZI) keys in an update to Microsoft KB article 914387 for IT professionals and systems administrators who may need that information. We hope that this provides a more predictable way for our customers to anticipate and plan for our scheduled product updates as they are published.

Detailed Windows Update and Download Information


Gerry

[exclavieor]

Well this is getting stranger and stranger. I made sure the DST updates were there and automatically update the time for DST is checked. I updated java to 1.6.0_10 (I think I was using 1.6.0_3 or 1.6.0_7 before as displayed by SageTV). I updated the SageTV server software to the current version. I updated the SageTV client software to the current version. I rebooted both machines. Both machines are showing the correct time. SageTV shows the correct time on the server. A mediaMVP connected to the server shows the correct time and can you guess what time the SageTV client shows? Wrong!! It now shows a time that is 3 1/2 hours ahead of the SageTV server!! Forgive me but isn't the client just an extension of the SageTV server and shouldn't the SageTV client just display the time that the SageTV server has (or allow us to choose server time or local time)?? ?

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by exclavieor

Well this is getting stranger and stranger. I made sure the DST updates were there and automatically update the time for DST is checked. I updated java to 1.6.0_10 (I think I was using 1.6.0_3 or 1.6.0_7 before as displayed by SageTV). I updated the SageTV server software to the current version. I updated the SageTV client software to the current version. I rebooted both machines. Both machines are showing the correct time. SageTV shows the correct time on the server. A mediaMVP connected to the server shows the correct time and can you guess what time the SageTV client shows? Wrong!! It now shows a time that is 3 1/2 hours ahead of the SageTV server!! Forgive me but isn't the client just an extension of the SageTV server and shouldn't the SageTV client just display the time that the SageTV server has (or allow us to choose server time or local time)?? ?

Is your SageTV client set to the correct timezone? Double-click the clock in the tray and check it. Do you have a NTP time server configured for it in some other application you're running?

Gerry

[stevech]

SOMEONE PLEASE

Create a sticky announcement with a simple 10 word statement on what Sage users need to do if anything re DST. Me, myself, am concerned with the US rules in 2008.

Sage TV should send auto-email to all customers if a change is needed to avoid another fiasco.

I have the Java version that came with sage 6.2, and I have not downloaded any Microsoft patches for 2008's DST.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by stevech

SOMEONE PLEASE

Create a sticky announcement with a simple 10 word statement on what Sage users need to do if anything re DST. Me, myself, am concerned with the US rules in 2008.

Sage TV should send auto-email to all customers if a change is needed to avoid another fiasco.

I have the Java version that came with sage 6.2, and I have not downloaded any Microsoft patches for 2008's DST.

Well right off the bat if you haven't downloaded MS DST patches or kept up to date with Windows updates you'll probably have issues. I posted this (3 posts above yours) which should cover everything for DST. There is also a sticky with links to last years posts that have the same info. The issues with DST are OS and java related, not Sage.

Gerry

[jkohn]

Originally Posted by vexhold

As a member of a farming family, I have to put you in your place. We don't like it any more than you do. And for the record it has nothing to do with farming, it was originally put in place by the Germans in WWI to conserve the energy of keeping things lit during the odd hours when time shifts. It then spread through Europe and then to the states. Of course this all happened when people "actually worked" and woke up hella earlier than we do. There are currently bills on the docket supporting the abolishion of DST. Wether or not it passes is another thing.

So LAY OFF THE FARMERS AND THEIR CROPS YOU EAT!!

Sorry, had to be said.

Thanks

I personally like DST. In fact I'd rather have DST year-round than get rid of it.

I don't think we'll be getting rid of it anytime soon, after all they just extended it this past year.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Well right off the bat if you haven't downloaded MS DST patches or kept up to date with Windows updates you'll probably have issues. I posted this (3 posts above yours) which should cover everything for DST. There is also a sticky with links to last years posts that have the same info. The issues with DST are OS and java related, not Sage.

Gerry

Time constrained, I did nothing about Microsoft's update for Win XP nor a Java update. None the less, everything seems OK after the time change, for the sage server and PC clients. Sage 6.2 Java 1.0.6_07. XP Pro SP2 without MS's KB951072-v2-x86-ENU patch. I'll assume that rebooting won't yield a problem. Perhaps whatever the issues are, they don't affect my time zone and software revs.

Like the prior fiasco, what's needed is a simple sticky that has a clear and concise list or table of who need to do what. It's not practical to try to piece it together by reading the stream of chats.

[QueOnda]

Can you please state the java version? I read somewhere were people are having trouble with version 11.

[gplasky]

java version 6 update 12 is the latest. As long as you stop the SageTV service and make sure Sage is completely stopped and exited there are no issues with the latest version. There are issues, sometimes, if you try to upgrade while an app (like Sage) is still using java. I am running is on WHS, Vista x64 and x32 and XP x32. And as long as you kept up to date with service packs and patches you should be fine for DST.

Gerry