Nvidia announces the Ion platform, could it be the HD300???

[dravenone]

In short they take the Atom processor and pair it with the GeForce 9400M and call it the ION platform. It runs a full OS and performs HD playback in a Pico form factor. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.......

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3478&p=2

[Djc208]

Saw that, even replied that it could make a perfect client machine, though it probably has more HP than a HD300 would need.

I'm still hoping they'll produce somthing like the BD player that was running Sage. Could convince me to get a BD player.

This could seriously make me think about doing a CarPC though. More than enough power and HD capable as well. Configure one with dual outputs and you'd have a great setup for both the front and rear of my car.

[stanger89]

But it still has all the "PC" codec and OS issues. Would make a very attractive client, but I don't think an "HD300".

[babgvant]

I would love to see the platform sold as individual components. You could make a seriously small and quite PC client box out of this.

[briands]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But it still has all the "PC" codec and OS issues. Would make a very attractive client, but I don't think an "HD300".

But by taking the permutations out of the hardware configuration, everyone could adopt an "approved" installation of decoders, filters, etc. Tweakers would still be left to their own devices of course.

[Ryokurin]

If the 9400M is anything like the 8300 then I'll pass. The board is solid, but its 1080i performance leaves much to be desired. I feel like I should have gotten a cheaper board and stuck a 9600GT or a ATI card in in my htpc instead. Looks like I'm going to have to do that at this point to finally get the picture right.

[bastafidli]

In my opinion actually this means that the extender will be comodized and together with it the media center software which I think spells bad news for Sage.

Right now Sage has the advantage of having the complete solution having the backend, the frontend software and also the hardware. With owning the entire solution it can get by with having best solution consisting of mediocre parts.

With availability of Nvidia ION or Via Trinity solutions the extender will be commodized and anybody with viable software solution can move in. Since the hardware will be standardized since it will be standard CPU + standard GPU (thats why it is platform) there will not be problems with drivers, because the drivers will be part of the platform.

I am not (and cannot see myself in the future) using Sage for watching or recording TV only as a media center (in which role the software is borderline satisfying but the hardware rocks) therefore my attachment to Sage is very very low and only because of the HD extender. If somebody can offer better extender (which in my opinion any of this platforms will be, since they are more powerful as well as more universal to code for) and better frontend media center software there will be little to stop me from moving away from Sage unless they start getting their act together.

[QueOnda]

Sage could always make a OS image, which would be the same to everyone (like firmware). Could be a reality.

[bastafidli]

Yup, exactly Sage can as well as anybody else. So then it comes to who has better software solution for that category of users (so far I see two of such categories, users using the solution as PVR and users that don't)

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

In my opinion actually this means that the extender will be comodized and together with it the media center software which I think spells bad news for Sage.

Right now Sage has the advantage of having the complete solution having the backend, the frontend software and also the hardware. With owning the entire solution it can get by with having best solution consisting of mediocre parts.

With availability of Nvidia ION or Via Trinity solutions the extender will be commodized and anybody with viable software solution can move in. Since the hardware will be standardized since it will be standard CPU + standard GPU (thats why it is platform) there will not be problems with drivers, because the drivers will be part of the platform.

That's absolutely no different than the situation Sage has been in since the very beginning. A software provider. Sage's foundation always has been, and still is, their software. They've just attracted more people with their new hardware endeavors.

I am not (and cannot see myself in the future) using Sage for watching or recording TV only as a media center (in which role the software is borderline satisfying but the hardware rocks) therefore my attachment to Sage is very very low and only because of the HD extender. If somebody can offer better extender (which in my opinion any of this platforms will be, since they are more powerful as well as more universal to code for) and better frontend media center software there will be little to stop me from moving away from Sage unless they start getting their act together.

You can add all the fancy names you want to things, but in the end, it's still a PC, it still runs a PC OS, and is still a PC architecture. That means it has all the good things you mention (compatibility, power, "openness"), but also all the bad things (codec issues, software collisions, etc).

Do not expect this 9400/Atom hardware platform to be like an extender any more than mini-ITX machines are, or regular PCs are. It's a PC, I don't see why so many people think there's magically going to be people going gangbusters writing "extender-like" software for it.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Do not expect this 9400/Atom hardware platform to be like an extender any more than mini-ITX machines are, or regular PCs are. It's a PC, I don't see why so many people think there's magically going to be people going gangbusters writing "extender-like" software for it.

Agreed, there are better/cheaper ways to build an extender.

What is cool about this platform (assuming it's solid) is the size and thermals; for those who want to use a PC as a client it should make most of form factor issues less so.

Hopefully the price will similar (or better) to current mini-itx solutions.

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by stanger89

That's absolutely no different than the situation Sage has been in since the very beginning. A software provider. Sage's foundation always has been, and still is, their software. They've just attracted more people with their new hardware endeavors.

You are absolutely right. I didn't care about Sage until they release they HD100 and I realized it is the perfect box for my living room since I do not have to care about fan noise cooling and drivers. So it is not the software which attracted my to Sage but the hardware. I think the software is just OK, the hardware is really good for what I am using it right now. Now imagine what happens if anybody can have the same really good hardware.... On the other hand I also have to mention that Sage has so far provided to me the best customer support I have got from any company ever which does build a brand loyalty. I guess what I am waiting now is what improvements will they make to their software next year. This year was year of extender and all the improvements were mainly focused about that, bug fixes, firmware fixes, second extender.... Now with moving to HD200 hopefully they solved their extender availability problem and they can focus on critical improvements to software (UAC, subtitles, audio streams, better playlist management, more auto playlists, more online video integration, etc.)

Originally Posted by stanger89

You can add all the fancy names you want to things, but in the end, it's still a PC, it still runs a PC OS, and is still a PC architecture. That means it has all the good things you mention (compatibility, power, "openness"), but also all the bad things (codec issues, software collisions, etc).

Do not expect this 9400/Atom hardware platform to be like an extender any more than mini-ITX machines are, or regular PCs are. It's a PC, I don't see why so many people think there's magically going to be people going gangbusters writing "extender-like" software for it.

You could say the same think about XBox 360 or PS3. Those are just fancy PCs as well. They key is they are the SAME PCs in everybody's entertainment center, the very same hardware, the very same OS. I am not saying ION or Trinity will make it happen, but they certainly do have the potential for it, that is standardize the box in the entertainment center so the software producers can focus just on software and make the best they can.

[Ryokurin]

One last thing to note as well. The only one that's close to being released is the Via Trinity. The Ion is a technology demo of what they would put out if they get a license from Intel to do a chipset. Intel hasn't said if they will allow it yet, nor have they made it clear they plan on going past the 945 chipset themselves. It really sounds like they don't want the Atom to undercut their bigger chips.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Agreed, there are better/cheaper ways to build an extender.

What is cool about this platform (assuming it's solid) is the size and thermals; for those who want to use a PC as a client it should make most of form factor issues less so.

Hopefully the price will similar (or better) to current mini-itx solutions.

Oh definitely, such a platform is very attractive for building a PC client.

Originally Posted by bastafidli

You are absolutely right. I didn't care about Sage until they release they HD100 and I realized it is the perfect box for my living room since I do not have to care about fan noise cooling and drivers. So it is not the software which attracted my to Sage but the hardware. I think the software is just OK, the hardware is really good for what I am using it right now. Now imagine what happens if anybody can have the same really good hardware....

That's the thing, there are other options out there for similar hardware to the extenders, PopcornHour makes network media players with similar/better hardware capabilities to the Sage HD extenders. There's also the AppleTV 2, which is a lot like this Ion platform.

It's still the software that sets the Sage extender solutions appart (good or bad) from the competition.

You could say the same think about XBox 360 or PS3. Those are just fancy PCs as well. They key is they are the SAME PCs in everybody's entertainment center, the very same hardware, the very same OS. I am not saying ION or Trinity will make it happen, but they certainly do have the potential for it, that is standardize the box in the entertainment center so the software producers can focus just on software and make the best they can.

Well, except they're PowerPC based and not x86 . But that just goes and illustrates the other end of the spectrum, they may be very PC-like in hardware, but because they're customized so much, they're no different than extenders in terms of software support. Only the OEMs can make software for them....

[bastafidli]

Here is little preview of the ION platform

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/12/n...trated-at-ces/

I bet it would be much simpler and economical to develop for it than the existing extender. e.g. running just the full SageTV Client rather then developing completely separate software

[cychou]

I believe Nvidia designed the ION platform specially for those mini/portable computers (Nettop/Webtop), which is something similar to Asus EeePC. That is why they still need general purpose CPU like Intel Atom. The projected sales number on these computers is huge, that is why Nvidia and VIA are both jumping on it. These mini computers are more like a personal Internet Appliance, and some of them don't even run Windows.

Sage HD Theater uses Sigma chips and it is far more cost effective than the combination of Intel Atom CPU and Nvidia mGPU. Therefore I don't see this combo in the future of SageTV at all.

[bastafidli]

Yup, you don't have to run Windows, all what you need is for it to run Java and you can cut your development expenses by reusing the Client/Placeshifter on it.
The Sigma chip is cost effective but it also limits the functionality.

[cychou]

Just caught some news from Taiwan (in Chinese).

It says Intel's Atom processor is so popular that so far only first-string manufacturer like Asus, Acer, and HP can have supply from Intel. None of the smaller companies can get access to Atom processors, so they pretty much miss out the Netbook wagon.

It also says Intel is doing its best to persuade its partners to use full Intel platform (no Nvidia or VIA).

Looks like Nvidia is going have to work harder SELLING their chips!

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by cychou

Looks like Nvidia is going have to work harder SELLING their chips!

Yeah, but Apple is already has projects in the works for the Ion platform. Some rumors are that the next Mac Mini will be an Ion based platform or the next AppleTV.....

Just saying that I think Nvidia is already going to be selling enough.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by cychou

None of the smaller companies can get access to Atom processors, so they pretty much miss out the Netbook wagon.

Atom isn't the only game in town for low power x86 CPUs. If the Nvidia GPU is handling the video processing hardware, I'm sure plenty of VIA based CPUs would do just fine..

Drew