SageTV Setup Advice for First Time User

[mpb]

I am looking for some expert advice on my soon-to-be SageTV setup. I’ve scoured the forums for weeks, but I want to make sure I’m on the right track. I’m currently using a Cable company’s DVR and 3 STB in 4 rooms. I’d like to get rid of the Cable company’s DVR with a 4th STB and switch to SageTV for the DVR function so I can record all 4 sources and view the recordings in all the rooms. I’d also like to play my backed up DVD’s, music and photos that I have on a NAS. I can see 2-3 things recording at the same time and 2-3 MVPs used at the same time. All TVs are SD. I won’t get an HDTV for a while, so SD capture and output is fine.

Here’s what I’ve got so far:
Server – Core2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz, 4GB DDR2 800 RAM, 80GB Boot 7200rpm SATAII, 750GB Data 7200rpm SATAII, NVidia 7200GS 256MB(512 shared) GDDR2, XPPro32bit
Server Tuner Cards – 2 Hauppauge HVR-1800s, 1 Hauppauge PVR-500 w extra AV adapter
Tuner Sources – 4 SD Cable STB - Motorola DTC2000
Extenders – 3 Media MVPs (need 2 more MVPs or HD Theaters)
NAS – Promise NS4300N w/4 750GB RAID 5 – MP3s, DVD backups, Photos
Home Network – Wired Cat-6/Gigabit Switch
Locations – 5 rooms with SD TVs and network jacks.

This is an image of my planned setup:


And here are my questions so far:
#1) Can my current system handle capturing 4 Analog inputs?
#2) Can my system handle 3 MVPs (and possibly 2 more MVPs)? At most 3 could be used at a time.
#3) Is XP Pro (32-bit) the best OS to use? I also have Vista Home Premium (32-bit)?
#4) Since the PC is only a server, and not a client, is the type of graphics card important?
#5) How can I best utilize the NAS?
#6) I have a spare Celeron 335 2.8Ghz PC, 500GB 7200rpm SATAII, 4GB DDR2 800, onboard VGA. Would this be good to use for extra processing like for Comskip? It’s too big and loud to be a client for a TV.
#7) I hope I can control the Cable boxes via serial and multidtctuner since they don’t have firewire. If serial communication is disabled on the boxes, is the USB-UIRT my best or only option?
#8) What other recommendations do you have for my setup; upgrades, add-ons, plug-ins, etc.?

I know I could beef up my server and replace the MVPs with HD Theaters, but I’d prefer if I didn’t have to spend any more than I already have. I just want to make sure I’ve got enough. I know I’m asking a lot, but I’d really appreciate some expert advice on what more I need to do.
Thanks

[pjpjpjpj]

First off, wonderful explanation and great diagram! That really helps clarify what you want to do.

However, I hate to say but I don't have many answers for you and I expect many people might not... because so many here these days have HD Extenders (Theaters) rather than the MVPs. I suspect that is why no one else has responded sooner.

The few answers I can contribute are:
1) Probably. SD/analog takes a lot less than digital/HD.
2) I dunno about this. I'll defer to an expert.... but again, it is SD, so it might be fine. My lame server (see sig) can play SD content (though I have never had it transcoding another stream while playing one).
3) Seems to be the most popular around here.
4) Not really, especially since you are only going to have SD content. My server has "onboard video" and can show SD content... though I don't watch there (and neither will you).

I'm going to defer on 5-7 to those more knowledgeable than myself... but my recommendation for #8 is to bite the bullet and only buy HD Extenders (Theaters) rather than MVPs. Why not future-proof yourself? Plus, they just work way better, are way more reliable, and take all the burden off the server so you don't even have to worry about several of your questions.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by mpb

And here are my questions so far:
#1) Can my current system handle capturing 4 Analog inputs?

Shouldn't be a problem for the CPU, the biggest issue may be the HDDs. With up to four recordings coming in and up to 5 going out a single 750 GB HDD will probably be overwelmed. Might want to add another HDD or two for space as well as to distribute the load.

#2) Can my system handle 3 MVPs (and possibly 2 more MVPs)? At most 3 could be used at a time.

Depends, the MVP does playback of MPEG2 only, so other than the HDD issue of #1 I'd think you'd be fine as long as everything was in the sweet spot for the MVPs. If you give it video it doesn't support then the server has to transcode it and all bets are off, transcoding for one would probably be OK but more could cause issues.

#3) Is XP Pro (32-bit) the best OS to use? I also have Vista Home Premium (32-bit)?

I'd have to say yes for a server where you're not doing playback. Only other option I'd look at would be WHS if you want or can use any of that functionality. Otherwise it's stable and just about everything has drivers for it.

#4) Since the PC is only a server, and not a client, is the type of graphics card important?

No, if you're not doing playback then it only needs a graphics card if you're going to use a monitor to perform maintenance/setup/etc.

#5) How can I best utilize the NAS?

You can use it any way you wish. Sage will record to it, which would help reduce the load on the single HDD in your server, but if you don't like that option then you can simply point Sage at the locations of the media that's there in order to make it available to your clients/extenders. You could also set it up to be an archive path for recordings you wish to keep.

#6) I have a spare Celeron 335 2.8Ghz PC, 500GB 7200rpm SATAII, 4GB DDR2 800, onboard VGA. Would this be good to use for extra processing like for Comskip? It’s too big and loud to be a client for a TV.

I don't think comskip will be an issue on your setup. Unless you do lots of transcoding for the MVPs running comskip on the MPEG files you generate is pretty quick, and with a dual core CPU you could look at running multiple instances of comskip if you have enough power. If for some reason you don't then upgrading to a quad core will probably help more than trying to tie in a second PC just for comskip. Or you could always enlist the help of your regular desktop system too.

#7) I hope I can control the Cable boxes via serial and multidtctuner since they don’t have firewire. If serial communication is disabled on the boxes, is the USB-UIRT my best or only option?

With multiple boxes it's probably about your only remaining option if serial doesn't work.

#8) What other recommendations do you have for my setup; upgrades, add-ons, plug-ins, etc.?

as pjpjpjpj said, if you add more extenders go for the HD versions. They do SD better than the MVPs and will be ready when you do go HD, plus the new stand-alone function would work well with your NAS. Otherwise I'd get at least one more HDD for recordings. If you don't want tons of space then get smaller ones, though with HDD prices you might as well go big, you can always partition it off for other uses (DVDs etc), but I think you'd quickly hit a wall trying to record and play back all those different files (not to mention comskip).

Oh, and very nice diagram

[cychou]

Originally Posted by mpb

I can see 2-3 things recording at the same time and 2-3 MVPs used at the same time. All TVs are SD. I won’t get an HDTV for a while, so SD capture and output is fine.

If you only have 2-3 concurrent recording, why do you need a 4th STB?

I believe a single USB-UIRT can control up to three devices, so for the 4th STB you will need another IR Blaster. Is this what you have in mind?


Vince

[mpb]

Originally Posted by cychou

If you only have 2-3 concurrent recording, why do you need a 4th STB?

A secondary use of the STBs is to use the On-Demand and PPV features on channel 001. If I am able to control each box with USB-to-Serial, then I can use the IR and add a RF remote w/ IR blaster to the setup. I can use it to control the Cable menus on the boxes. It looks like the Logitech 890 or 1000 can do this as well as the URC RF30. If I have to go the USB-UIRT route, then this added feature is out, and I may go with 3 STBs. I may still keep the fourth to watch live TV if the other 3 are capturing. The Basic cable without the box has 72 channels, the package with the STB has 200 channels (I think they are including the music and PPV channels in this total)

[mpb]

Just to let everyone know, I've started the testing of my setup and everything's working out great so far! I've been allowed one STB to test capture on for now (not a SageTV config but a "wife" setting ) I even got the STB to work with the multiDCTtuner! Supprisingly it's not a DCT2000, but a DCT2524. Our cable provider only shows the DCT200 setup/manual online which looks exactly the same as mine. Good thing it communicates with SageTV the same way as well. So for now, I'm using the other 3 tuners to capture the "Basic Cable" channels 2-99 that come with our Digital Cable STB package. The 3 MVPs work great too! The Hauppauge remotes will take some time to get used to, though I may still look at getting some sort of IR/RF remote(s) that can control the TV, DVD, MVP,and STBs. The Music, pictures, and DVDs link nicely from my NAS as well. I'll have to convert some of the other H.264 videos I have so that the MVPs can play them, but over all, I'm very pleased. I've also got comskip monitor/player successfully installed as well as the webserver/sagetray app. Now I have a couple weeks to convince the "boss" that I should move the other STBs to the basement. Asking for a couple HD Theaters would be pushing it right now. Well, there's only 352 days until Christmas! Thanks to everyone who responded to my first post. I appreciate all the advice!

[TorontoSage]

Does anyone know if a WHS SageTV server with an (external) NAS is any slower recording or serving up files to extenders than a server with internal drives? I think they should perform the same, but I was just wondering.

[Striker:WG]

depends.

how is your external NAS device connected to the WHS? eSata? ethernet? USB?

-Striker-

[TorontoSage]

Well I haven't connected it yet, what would give the highest performance?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

Does anyone know if a WHS SageTV server with an (external) NAS is any slower recording or serving up files to extenders than a server with internal drives? I think they should perform the same, but I was just wondering.

If it's a NAS it's connected by the Network and it has nothing to do with the WHS. If it's attached Direct to a server it's DAS (or sometimes SAS) and of course there's SAN which is overkill for most homes.

You can't attach a NAS device to the WHS pool and even if you could I wouldn't for performance reasons. WHS can use USB/Firewire/eSata external drives in the pool (or for backup) but I prefer to only use internal SATAII drives in the pool for performance reasons even though a single external eSata drive has the same speed as an internal. USB connections can be flaky, firewire is better but I still wouldn't want to depend on it for the pool and I wouldn't want to share multiple pooled drives on 1 eSata port either.

The best use, imo, for a NAS/DAS/SAS device in conjunction with WHS is to backup the most critical shares/files or to backup shares that aren't already duplicated by WHS.