SageTV & Sonos

[TorontoSage]

I am an extremely happy Sonos user who has recently installed SageTV and plan to keep using both as, for me, nothing beats their Wifi remote control. That may change after I've used SageTV for a while, but I am not sure that I want to turn on a TV and manipulate an IR remote every time I want to manage my music. Also, there isn't a TV in every room the house and I want the capability of being able to turn on, turn off, adjust the volume or change the music in one of those rooms too, or even the backyard, all of which I can do from the Sonos Wifi Controller or an iTouch/iPhone. Actually, as the former is totally waterproof and the latter is not, I use the Sonos controller exclusively in the master bathroom and steam shower now and an iPhone or iTouches elsewhere in the house.

I am wondering what the experiences are of others are who have tried both Sonos and SageTV. If you dumped Sonos after getting SageTV, what was your main reason for doing so? If you use both what is your setup and why did you keep or buy Sonos too?

[paulbeers]

If all you are looking for is independent zones then Sage can do this for you, but for whole house audio it is just not possible (not without additional hardware beyond Sage extenders and some serious jerry rigging). Audio is just not Sage's strong suit and they certainly do not have multiple zone / whole house support yet. At this point, I would recommend using Sage for PVR / Video playback and sticking to your Sonos system for multi-zonal / whole house audio.

With that said, the web server plugin might be able to command various Extenders throughout your house and therefore with some work could be ported to the iphone (via the web browser) but again you would never be able to get perfect audio synchronization which as we all know is Sonos's strength (what the competition just can't get right).

[TorontoSage]

Thanks. That's what I figured. What Sonos is doing is not easy and I would like SageTV to focus on the video portion. I'll just continue to use both so I can have the best possible experience in both areas and see where that leads. I just have to think Video: pick up the remote. Music: pick up the iPhone.

[PLUCKYHD]

I have used sonos for 4 years and sell it/ recomend it to all my customers. Nothing is as simple to set up and use it works great as a companion to sage

[TorontoSage]

Wow, I did a lot of googling and seaches on here and I thought I was the only one!

I installed both Sonos and SageTV within the same month. The experiences were worlds apart unfortunately. Sonos is like the person you fall in love with on the first date. SageTV is like the one you that looks good, but you 'have to get to know' first.

[mayamaniac]

As I said before in the other thread, Sonos only does a fraction of what SageTV does, so you can't compare the two products. If you want to compare apples versus apples, then it would be the sonos versus the HD Extenders, where it just works. You don't need to worry about setting up video codecs and filters, it just plays everything you throw at it.

[TorontoSage]

I don't know why you keep saying I am comparing SageTV to Sonos.

Sonos does not do video so they can't be compared as a whole.

One can only compare the audio features of one vs the audio features of the other which is the only basis upon which one can decide whether to either add Sonos for the audio features it provides over and above what SageTV's audio features provide, or to keep Sonos if one already owns Sonos at the time one buys SageTV.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

I don't know why you keep saying I am comparing SageTV to Sonos.

I'm guessing he was responding to this:

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

I installed both Sonos and SageTV within the same month. The experiences were worlds apart unfortunately. Sonos is like the person you fall in love with on the first date. SageTV is like the one you that looks good, but you 'have to get to know' first.

Sounds like a comparison to me. But I guess I have to agree with him that it's a bit apples-and-oranges to compare the setup experience of a closed-box hardware product with its own proprietary networking scheme to that of a software product that has to be configured to work with a variety of user-supplied hardware and network topologies. I'm not necessarily defending the Sage setup experience; I'm just saying they're operating in a much different problem space than Sonos.

[mayamaniac]

My point is that it is unfair comparison because you are taking the only strength of one product and comparing it to one of the weakest parts of the another.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I'm guessing he was responding to this:



Sounds like a comparison to me. But I guess I have to agree with him that it's a bit apples-and-oranges to compare the setup experience of a closed-box hardware product with its own proprietary networking scheme to that of a software product that has to be configured to work with a variety of user-supplied hardware and network topologies. I'm not necessarily defending the Sage setup experience; I'm just saying they're operating in a much different problem space than Sonos.

I was comparing the ease of seamless installation and robustness of Sonos with that of SageTV and not the functionality. One has video with audio only as a sideline. The other has audio only. They can't be compared as a whole. But one can compare the audio of one to the audio of another.

I am sure both, actually, are very difficult problems to solve. Witness the fact that no other competitor in the audio space can match the performance of Sonos in terms of sychronization, robustness and ease of set up.

From what little I have been able to find out about SageTV vs Sonos, the latter has many more resources than the former and that may have something to do with it.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

My point is that it is unfair comparison because you are taking the only strength of one product and comparing it to one of the weakest parts of the another.

But anyone who has Sonos and then acquires SageTV or has SageTV and not Sonos or anything else and finds that the audio portion of SageTV does not meet their needs has to make that comparison. Or else they won't know whether to keep or buy Sonos or some other audio product.

What does 'fairness' have to do with choosing a product that meets your needs or comparing a product?

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

What does 'fairness' have to do with choosing a product that meets your needs or comparing a product?

SageTV will unlikely meet anyone needs if they are looking for a good audio distribution system around the house, as it is a very basic and weak feature. I've complained about it many times including calling it "half@ssed" implementation, but I also understand that the main focus of SageTV is the PVR feature. So I let it slide a little and lower my expections of the media center side of SageTV. To compare a very basic and weak features of SageTV to Sonos' greatest feature is just not right. In terms of the primary strengths of each product, they are apples and oranges.

As an attempt to make an analogy, let's say Sonos decided to add an intercom feature to the Sonos system as an additional feature. And then you compare it to another leading intercom communication product. Of course, Sonos will not look so good as it is not it's primary focus.

[TorontoSage]

Yup, but when you just get SageTV you don't know that so you investigate to find out, which is what I was doin'. And, I was mainly trying to find out how others who have both Sonos and SageTV use the two so I maybe can find out how others use the two together.

For example, I am going to feed the analog L/R output from the HD200 to the analog L/R input on the amplified Zoneplayer ZP120 which will be connected to the ceiling speakers in the room. This will allow me to enjoy the fidelity of the higher quality ceiling speakers when I watch TV through SageTV, rather than the typically lower quality TV speakers. At the same time I am able to enjoy the fully featured Sonos handheld controller (whether the proprietary one or the iPhone/iTouch). For the home theatre I will feed the output from the HD200 and an unamplified Sonos ZP90 Zoneplayer into a auto-sensing audio switch which will give priority to the HD200. The output from the auto-sensing switch willl then be fed into a home theatre surround sound amplifier.

In this way I get the best of both possible worlds for HDTV and for music with minimal extra 'electronic clutter' other than having to have two remotes. Although some might suggest that the only thing better would be to have the remote capability for SageTV in the iPhone/iTouch too so that there is only one remote, I disagree. The iPhone/iTouch is way more expensive than a cheap remote. But, more importantly, the remote is usually paired with the TV and you want it to stay in the room with the TV and don't carry it around to use on other TV's (especially since there aren't even TV's in every roomm). But, with the Sonos remote it is not really paired with anything, is designed to be mobile and you often have music all over the house, both where there are TV's and where there aren't, including the backyard.

Anyhow, I think SageTV (when it works) and Sonos (which always works) is the closest thing to the perfect system out there.

[exdirtfarmer]

I have also been enjoying music with my 7 zones of sonos, and video with sagetv for many years. The integration has never worked for me, with the slight lag of audio through the line inputs on the sonos difficult to tolerate.

I am totally cool with the lack of integration. When I watch TV I find a room with a TV and SAGE Client device and have at it. When it's music time NOTHING beats the sonos. When it comes to control of the two, an automation system like homeseer or housebot may be configured to work as a mechanism. I'm also playing with my ipod touch as a universal remote with the ability to blast ir from a pc or to trigger scripts and events using homeseer, but haven't really come up with anything killer yet.

It's all pretty cool stuff to tinker with, Just not enough hours in the day.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by exdirtfarmer

I have also been enjoying music with my 7 zones of sonos, and video with sagetv for many years. The integration has never worked for me, with the slight lag of audio through the line inputs on the sonos difficult to tolerate.

Oh, I didn't realize that the Sonos introduced a slight delay to the audio. Actually I thought that the HD200 would introduce a slight delay to the video so that one would have to introduce a delay into the audio in order to sync the two. I noticed there was a delay adjustment for audio in SageTV. Maybe I won't be able to listen to TV through my Sonos after all, unless I am willing to accept the audio delay. I'll see once I have my first HD200 installed.

Originally Posted by exdirtfarmer

I am totally cool with the lack of integration. When I watch TV I find a room with a TV and SAGE Client device and have at it. When it's music time NOTHING beats the sonos. When it comes to control of the two, an automation system like homeseer or housebot may be configured to work as a mechanism. I'm also playing with my ipod touch as a universal remote with the ability to blast ir from a pc or to trigger scripts and events using homeseer, but haven't really come up with anything killer yet.

Well I don't really have a problem with the lack of integration either. And you are certainly right about nothing beating the Sonos for audio. I was amazed that it worked 5 minutes out of the box and I haven't had to tinker with it since. I don't expect the SageTV to come close to the Sonos in its audio functionality as SageTV's focus is mainly video. Music audio is a totally different animal.

[exdirtfarmer]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

Oh, I didn't realize that the Sonos introduced a slight delay to the audio. Actually I thought that the HD200 would introduce a slight delay to the video so that one would have to introduce a delay into the audio in order to sync the two. I noticed there was a delay adjustment for audio in SageTV. Maybe I won't be able to listen to TV through my Sonos after all, unless I am willing to accept the audio delay. I'll see once I have my first HD200 installed

Yes, the sonos line inputs have to be digitized then retransmitted , the delay is small but I find it enough to magnify any sync issues further. You can minimize the delay by setting the sonos Line in Encoding to Uncompressed. The setting is located on your sonos at Music Menu->System Settings->Advanced Settings->Line-In Encoding.

Let me know how it works out, I haven't tried it years. Syncing video over network is even harder than doing audio only. You would have to split and hardwire the video from a single source. It would make for a great Grey Cup Party mode tho.

[TorontoSage]

I do have the inputs set to uncompressed already. My first HD200 is coming next week, so I'll let you know.

I have talked to a few people who are using matrix switches to deliver the video and audio (ie no SageTV) to the local TV and then having a local Sonos for the audio and they haven't reported a sync problem, or maybe they just grin and bear it.

Too bad there is not a setting to introduce a delay into the video.