Sagetv Stability/Support

[nycjoe]

I've been using sagetv for about 3-4 years now. I actually remember it being pretty stable initially, but as the versions progressed, it became more and more unstable (at least, that's been my experience).

My setup was initially very simple, but as I added more and more features (newer versions, some plugins, clients, HDTV, an HD200, etc) the setup became more and more flaky. I've been spending longer and longer trying to get it to work reliably with little success.

Recently, I've decided to try and move my server from XP -> Linux, hoping it will finally be reliable. I have an HD200 for the bedroom and figured if it worked, I'll get another one for the living room and finally have a stable setup. I hoped I'd be able to get through all the Linux hurdles because I've been a UNIX/Linux administrator for about 9 years now. Boy was I wrong. Sagetv on linux is ridiculously unstable, and the HD200 "stable release" doesnt even remotely work - you MUST upgrade to beta firmware for it to keep from crashing.

I've tried contacting sagetv support for assistance, but have barely even received any responses from them, which was a surprise to me - I've poured so much money down the sagetv pit.

I'm curious if I am alone in this, or if anyone else had similar experiences. I'm also going to paste below the correspondence I've had with sage's support.


--------------------------------------------------------

Hi,
I'd like to be refunded for the purchase I made of a sagetv recently. I have purchased sagetv for Linux on March 22nd, and after some severe instability, I have requested assistance from your support. I received one email back on 3/31, but have not heard back since. I will add that I've been using sagetv for over 3 years now.

Please advise what I need to do in order to do this.

Joe
- Hide quoted text -


On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Joe <user@ISP.com> wrote:

I'm attaching additional logs from other times when I've had issues with sagetv. Can I expect to hear anything back or should I just assume that this product is unsupported?


On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Joe <user@ISP.com> wrote:

Can I expect to hear any kind of response for this? I sent the first request for support about a week ago.


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Joe <user@ISP.com> wrote:

How soon can I expect to hear a response to my issues? I've been having these constant hangups since I installed and requested support nearly a week ago.

I havent heard anything about which logs to send over, so I'm attaching what I found on the server after having issues with the HD200. Are these issues solvable, or should I just go ahead and return the license for a refund?

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Joe <user@ISP.com> wrote:

can I get a response to this? Sagetv is very unstable on my linux PC, it needs to be restarted a couple of times every day so far.


On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Joe <user@ISP.com> wrote:

can you tell me where to grab the logs from? I have a linux server, a HD200, and a windows sagetv client


On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, SageTV Support <support@sagetv.com> wrote:

Joe,

Can you get me a full log from the server and one from one of the clients
from the same session.

Thanks,

George Oms
SageTV, LLC
http://www.sagetv.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe [mailto:user@ISP.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 7:41 PM
To: support@sagetv.com
Subject: SageTV Support Request


>SUPPORT REQUEST
++++++++++++++++++++++++
NAME: Joe
EMAIL: user@ISP.com

SOFTWARE: SageTV
VERSION: Version 6.5
TYPE OF USER: Licensed User

OS: Other
OS( OTHER? ): ubuntu 8.10
CAPTURE DEVICE: Hauppauge HVR-1600
CAPTURE DEVICE ( OTHER? ):
PROCESSOR: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4000+
MEMORY: 4GB
GRAPHICS CARD: none (using HD200)
DVD MPEG2 ENCODER:
ADDITIONAL HARDWARE: HD200, hvr-1600 IR blaster

SERVICE PROVIDER: TWC
BROADCAST CITY (LOCATION): New York, NY
COUNTRY: USA
SERVICE: SageTV Service
SERVICE TYPE: Cable

>+++++++++++ REQUEST ++++++++++

REQUEST DESCRIPTION: Am trying to replace my XP based sagetv server with a
Linux based one. Setup seems to work okay, but after a while (usually an
hour or so), connections from the HD200 or PC's (I also have a placeshifter
+ client license) just hang with the spinning wheel.
I see the following repeat nonstop in sagetv_0.txt (repeats over and over
again until I restart sage on the server):

Sun 3/29 21:39:45.851 java.net.SocketException: Broken pipe
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at java.net.SocketOutputStream.socketWrite0(Native
Method)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at
java.net.SocketOutputStream.socketWrite(SocketOutputStream.java:92)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at
java.net.SocketOutputStream.write(SocketOutputStream.java:136)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at
java.io.BufferedOutputStream.flushBuffer(BufferedOutputStream.java:65)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at
java.io.BufferedOutputStream.write(BufferedOutputStream.java:78)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at
java.io.DataOutputStream.write(DataOutputStream.java:71)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at sage.bl.R(Unknown Source)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at sage.bl.a(Unknown Source)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at sage.bl.if(Unknown Source)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at sage.bo.new(Unknown Source)
Sun 3/29 21:39:45.861 at sage.bo$1.run(Unknown Source)

[mayamaniac]

I always thought the linux version was OEM only and doesn't come with support. Unless it has changed, were you not awared of this before purchasing?

As for stability, SageTV can be very stable depending on your configurations. My SageTV can run for months without any problem. And I have an analog tuner, an HDHR, and a HD-PVR. I have it working with Cable for the longest time and recently switched to Verizon FiOS without any issue.

[valnar]

I can't help you with the Linux part, but Sage for Windows has been rock solid for me, for years. I only reboot for Windows updates -- so granted that is once a month, but I feel it could go on forever.

I don't run SageMC or many plugins though.

[doc]

I've never touched the linux version but the windows version has been rock solid for me. I initially had some issues but I think that was down to old hardware.

Every now and again I reinstall from scratch using the latest version or beta just to make sure I haven't messed something up with my constant tinkering. If I go through a period where I don't tinker, then a reboot every couple of months is all the box gets.

Try running without any plugins for a while to eliminate those as problems.

As for the beta firmware for the HD200, I think nearly everyone on here is using it. I agree its about time they made it the default rather than a beta but I think they're still in the midst of adding extra features and are probably waiting until they've finished.

If you let us know what hardware, tuners etc you're using someone might be able to help out.

[Zetavu]

I've been testing Sage for a couple weeks now and have some some issues with stability. First off, placeshifter seems to work hit or miss, in Windows it seems to launch fine but hi def video has wavy edges and stuttering. On the same hardware but booting to linux it crashes often at startup, video is just as bad but uses more cpu. The server (windows) itself has locked up a few times, but the real issue turning me off now is that when I start watching a hi def tv recording Sage will lock for between 20 seconds to a minute, the waiting circle rotating, before it will playback the file. Not sure if I did anything to cause this, the only changes I made were to setup comskip (which works for everything but HD PVr files, and to test spdif audio (which I could not get to work). I have not tested the linux version of server and really would not be optimistic based on the performance of placshifter.

Any thoughts on why Sage locks for HD recordings would be appreciated. I did not see this issue when watching HD recordings in the video section, just the tv section.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by nycjoe

...move my server from XP -> Linux, hoping it will finally be reliable....

I'm curious if I am alone in this, or if anyone else had similar experiences.

I'm not in to bashing anybody else's OS, and this might be more a reflection of my limited brainpower/technical ability.... but I struggled with Linux for quite a few months (MythTV...) before giving it up and moving to Sage/XP (and now WHS).

My take is that moving from XP to Linux is going from the frying pan into the fire.

I found that there are many smart, dedicated, helpful Linux people out there.

But even so, I found the technical demands/predictability of Linux applications tb way, way beyond my limited resources.

That's fact, not opinion. Do with it what you will.

[Zetavu]

Well, for someone not into bashing you sure did a good job. To correct you, that was your opinion, not fact. Linux is a steep learning curve, but once you unlearn how you do things in xp and learn the nuinces of linux, then you can give it a fair comparison. Mythtv is far from perfect, and linux requires a lot more computer savy to do things that are simplified in xp. I can do about 90% of what I do in xp in linux, and with the latest ubuntu its easier to install a lot of these than in xp. Video playback is still young in linux, specifically hardware acceleration with proprietary drivers. That and a lack of reliable guide data for the US are the two disadvantages I see. However, the same linux you bash is the background for all tivo and extenders, so obviously it does work, just not the way you want it to.

[paulbeers]

My Sage setup has been rock solid for the most part. I have found that comskip has caused me some instability since I have added it. I really need to look more into that. However, otherwise it works just peachy for me!

[stuckless]

Let's face it... whenever we get into these, "my OS is better than your OS" discussions, they are never productive. There's no "fact" that Linux is better than Windows, or that Windows is easier to use than Linux.... they are all oppinions.

Despite what I let on to be, I'm actually a pretty savy windows user, but i prefer to use Linux. (personal choice). Even though i've been a windows technical user since Windows 2.0, I would not even consider running my Sage server on windows. I simply don't know enough about the internals of Windows to troubleshoot it effectively (reboot, uninstall, reboot, reinstall can only go so far). The same should go the other way around as well. If you don't know how to troubleshoot hardware issues under linux, then don't make it your primary server.

My Sage setup has been surpisingly stable (server on linux, clients are windows and hd extender, mvp). That's until the beta release of 6.5.13.... Right now, everything is working except for a single Windows Sage Client that refuses to connect, and I don't even think it's a SageTV issue. But it's also a beta release... so i can't really knock sage too much for me having an issue with beta software.

Sorry, this turned out to be more of a rant than anything

[Opus4]

nycjoe: I asked support about this because a lot of times this boils down to support not receiving emails or the user not receiving the replies; in this case, support said they never received any emails from you other than your first support request. Was that first request submitted via the support form, perhaps?

You should send your request again via a different email address or from the web form.


Anyone else reading this should note that support says they should be able to reply to a support request within 72 hours. If you receive no reply by that time, it usually means they didn't get the request or you didn't get the reply. When sending an email, make sure that SageTV's email reply is not getting caught be a spam blocker.

- Andy

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Zetavu

To correct you, that was your opinion, not fact.

I said that my take was that going from XP to Linux is going from the frying pan into the fire. The fact is that is *my* take. That is fact and not opinion.

If I were to say "Going from XP to Linux is ....." yes: that would be opinion. But I did not say that. I said "My take is that....."

May sound like semantic nit-picking.... but that's the way it is.

[Zetavu]

"The fact is that is *my* take. " I believe that is what an opinion is, *your* take on something

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Zetavu

"The fact is that is *my* take. " I believe that is what an opinion is, *your* take on something

I surrender. -)

[AWS]

my $0.02 - I've run sage since version 2 and have found it to be very stable (Winodws environment). If you take away all of the stupid things I do to my configuration on trying to tweak it, I'd say Sage is very stable.

I'm actually going through support right now on an issue I have. I have found them to be very helpful and reply usually once a day - if I also reply once a day. (Thanks for your help, George! )

AWS

[Zetavu]

I suspect my issues started when I installed Comskip, oh well, next time around.

[hoosierengineer]

I was building a system for a friend last summer, and either Sage wasn't getting my messages or I wasn't getting theirs. I was trying to figure out how to purchase a licence, no techincal problems. I have had pretty good responses from Sage, in the past when I encountered problems. keep trying to contact them, they should get back to you. George was one of the guys who helped me.