Missing OTA guide data

[beefmasterj]

I've seen a couple threads about how to configure guide data for Toronto area OTA broadcasts, which has helped me out quite a bit. I've got a selection of US and Canadian channels set up and coming in nicely.

However, some stations are not populating guide data. For instance I've got data for the next week on WNED, the next day for WKBW, and nothing at all for WIVB or CBLT.

This has been set up with EPG data as "antenna" and using my postal code. It detected all the stations properly, however the actual data getting populated is very sporadic - at best.

Does anyone have any ideas how I can get this a little more complete?

Thanks!

[agover]

Im not doing this anymore (as I cant receive ota hd from where I am until I move back to the gta in sept) but what I was doing was to using the Buffalo,NY OTA channel listing - then just remove the crap that is un-recievable.

For the CanCon - manually add the channel's then using zap2its tv guide lookup the channel id using the Rogers Digital Premium channel lineup

This will give you complete guide data for TO.

Cheers,

A

[beefmasterj]

Thanks! The first suggestion sorted me out for the US stations. However, I don't quite understand the second point on Canadian channels?

I thought I could only have one EPG source for a recording source, so how do I add additional Canada EPG data for those stations (such as CBLT-DT or CFTO-HD) ?

[bmac.to]

You can add any channel you want to your existing lineup - go to edit channel lineup, and then add. All you need to do is give the channel a name, specify the logical channel and the physical channel, and then add the appropriate channel ID (you can get the ID from the zap2it webpage - check the Sage FAQ for exact instructions).

For a list of digital stations you should be able to get in Toronto, check out http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/index.html

BTW, I am in the Toronto area and I have a perfect EPG.
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[Owen Brent]

I have been to the zap2it web page and do not see the channel id you mention. I entered my postal code etc. Is it just the call sign that is not in brackets?

[Fuzzy]

When you click on a channel in the guide, the URL contains the ChannelID (stnNum=xxxxxx I think). You CAN add any channel on zap2it to your lineup.

[vikingisson]

So does this get us more reliable guide data? I don't understand why it is sporadic especially for Canadian channels. Sometimes I get full data and other times I see No Data or just the digital ID. Where am I getting the data when I do see it and why is it failing at other times? The U.S. (Buffalo) channels almost always have guide data.
(I doubt that signal strength would affect the guide but I get >90% on all Toronto, Hamilton, and Buffalo channels. In fact I disable the redundant SD channels and use the HD versions when I have a choice)

[wayner]

Originally Posted by vikingisson

So does this get us more reliable guide data? I don't understand why it is sporadic especially for Canadian channels. Sometimes I get full data and other times I see No Data or just the digital ID. Where am I getting the data when I do see it and why is it failing at other times? The U.S. (Buffalo) channels almost always have guide data.

I have seen this myself and I think that Sage is trying to use program data that comes from the OTA channel feed to get the data. Or it is trying to map the Station Name to the Zap2it database and is not always successful.

One way to tell is from the ChannelID numbers. Zap2it's ChannelID numbers are pretty big, like 44784. I am guessing your channel ID numbers are something like 25 - or at least something much less than a 5 digit number. For example when I did a scan it said that Ion channel 51-1 is ChannelID 23 - this is obviously not a valid Zap2it ChannelID number.

Do you also have any sources using cable? If so then you can go and remap to the cable channels. For example if you add a Rogers Digital Lineup you will find that CBLT-DT (CBC Toronto HD) is channel 514 with ChannelID 46245.

Or you can just change the channel Id to the following numbers:
CBLT-DT 46245
CFTO-DT 44784
CITY-DT 34200

Find the rest by entering a Toronto Postal Code at www.zap2it.com and saying that you have Rogers Digital Cable and then look at channels in the 500s.

The only thing that you will be missing is channels that aren't available on cable such as 17-3 (Thinkbright), and the 51 sub-channels like Ion, Qubo, etc. Let me know if you want an ID that works for those.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

When you click on a channel in the guide, the URL contains the ChannelID (stnNum=xxxxxx I think). You CAN add any channel on zap2it to your lineup.

With one caveat - even though OTA channels show up in zap2it for some reason they don't work with Sage. An example is WPXJ-DT2 an OTA channel broadcasting the children's channel Qubo in Buffalo, NY. I can see it for an Antenna(Broadcast) lineup for zip code 14201. Zap2it shows that it has a channel ID of 64284. But when I use this number in Sage it does not give any guide data! I found a Qubo channel in Pittsburgh that is offered on Comcast Cable with ID of 54596 that has the same show lineup and this works.

But I don't understand why Sage can't access guide data if the channel is obviously in the zap2it database with the proviso that it is OTA only!

[vikingisson]

Thank you Wayner for the detailed reply. Sorry I haven't been back for a while but am now just getting around to fixing this. Indeed the guide data is a confusing mess. I'm pretty much convinced that data for Canadian OTA channels is at least half broken, works much better for U.S. channels on the same tuner. zap2it shows the right info even for OTA listings. It certainly acts like the data is via OTA and not zap2it or one is bumping into the other because it isn't consistent. Guide data is the main feature that makes the app useful. I get about 20 OTA channels but when possible I prefer to record OTA but can't if I don't know what is available.

I don't have Rogers or any cable service anymore but can look up the zap2it info. I could even pretend to have service via S-video or something that pulls down a channel listing that I can remap to. I'm not sure if later removing the pretend source will trash the guide data or if I can leave it there but disable all channels just to keep the listing available.

I have two licenses and had long hoped to build one for my parents but the caveats and odd behaviour of the guide data makes that a bad choice from a user perspective. All the talk about a new UI and fancier tricks is low on my list if the basics are still clunky.

[vikingisson]

OK, here's an example of what I did so perhaps I'm just doing it wrong. I remapped the logical channel of CBLT-DT to 46245 and low and behold I see guide data. However the guide listing is now at the end of the list after the sat listings. Other IDs I tried placed it somewhere in the middle. It was nice when it showed OTA channels grouped together at the begining. I can scroll up instead of down but It looks strange. At least the guide data is now there. Not sure how it will look if I do the other Canadian channels.

[vikingisson]

silly me. I can remap but keep the same logical guide number. Rather confusing but can be done. There's hope yet, at least for my single tv setup but I hesitate building one for other people.

[j3rt]

I am having same problem.
What I can't seem to figure out, is where to change the ID. It's definately incorrect, listing ID:15 for CBLT-DT.
Do I change the ID within the SageTV program or in some .ini file somewhere?

[wayner]

You do it through setup video sources, remap channel - you will want to change the ID to 45864.

The Sage manual has pretty good instructions on this.

[j3rt]

Thanks, I think I am on the right path now...
We'll see.

[wayner]

I am using V7 now but go to Setup - Setup Video Sources. Click on the relevant Source.

Are you using any cable sources in your lineup that would have CBLTDT? If so then use the following:

Then click on Channel Setup. Go to the channel which will likely show as something like 5-1 CBLTDT-[20-5-1]. Click Remap this Channel. Then click on Remap this station. Scroll down to CBLTDT. These channels are likely in numberical order so if you have Rogers then it is channel 514. Under Rogers the ID shows up as ID 46245.

If you don't have cable channels then you should be able to do it by adding a channel.

Again go to Channel Setup and then Edit Channel Lineup. Click Add Channel to Lineup. Put in the station name - note that you might have to put in a differnt name than CBLTDT - so try "CBLT-DT". For station ID try 46245, for Logical number put 5-1 and for Physical put 20-5-1. You should be good to go.

[j3rt]

I think I've got it, by manually adding the channel.
Before it did though, I reset all mapped channels, disabled all channels, deleted the source and started from scratch. I did not perform a channel scan, but instead added the channels.

Currently, I have analog cable into 2 HVR-1600s, and 1 OTA feed into card 1. It's the OTA that's giving me grief (all this work for 2 channels!).

Not sure if this correct, when I view the Edit Channel Lineup, I know see a disabled CBLT-DT, 20-5-1, 5-1, ID 38 And my added enabled CBLTDT, 20-5-1, 5-1, 46245.

[wayner]

My experience is that you don't want to use these "low" channel IDs as they seem to be internally generated by Sage (someone please correct me if I am wrong), whereas the 5-6 digit numbers come from Zap2it which is where Sage gets its guide data from. In fact you can learn channel IDs by going to Zap2it, entering your Postal Code and choosing your service provider. Then just hover over the channel numbers in the channel grid and you will see the 5-6 digit channel ID numbers. This is how I found a channel ID for some OTA channels such as Qubo.

I believe these low channel numbers may work if they channel transmits guide data over their OTA signal but this appears to be unreliable and the best you seem to get is a few days worth of guide data as opposed to about two weeks that comes from Sage/Zap2it.

[vikingisson]

The guide data is arguably the most critical function and is where sagetv falls down for many in particular OTA channels and for Canadians. Some of us don't have or want cable tv so it takes lots of fiddling to get it right. The instructions aren't as clear as it is claimed but it can be done. But things keep changing. My guide used to have fits with Canadian OTA channels but that's been fine for a while now and U.S. channels are now seemingly random when they will show accurate guide data. If the OTA guide issues were restricted to OTA only channels I might deal with it on those few channels but most of these channels are on one cable service or another and should simply just work but they don't.

I've bought several licenses and have pondered a v7 upgrade but I don't see the guide getting any attention. The upgrade cost is worth it if I could stop worrying about guide data but that doesn't seem to be the case so for now I'm staying with v6 and see what will come of the new generation of systems.

[darcilicious]

I don't know if you have had the same experience -- and even though I'm in the US the guide isn't perfect either, OTA or otherwise but I have to ask: have you contacted SageTV support about guide issues? Every time I have done so, my issues have been resolved.