Might Be Saying Goodbye to SageTV - RESOLVED

[kmp14]

Originally Posted by kmp14

I am not an expert in the diagnostics. I looked at Vista's monitor app, and there are hundreds of things to monitor, and I wouldn't know how to interpret it. Any tips, advice, links, recommendations as to how to use the tool, and interpret the results?

Gonna copy a recorded show to a USB drive, and watch it in stand-alone. I will let you know the results.

[kmp14]

Ok, check this out - It DOES happen in stand-alone mode - recorded tv, off of an external USB drive. The HD200 not hooked up to the network. If I keep replaying the same place in the video where it happened, it happens again SOMETIMES....Maybe my HDHomeRuns are producing not the best signal?

I also have a Haupagge HVR-1800 in the PC, not used. I would give it a try but I couldn't get the QAM working. If anyone has any tips I would give the HVR-1800 a try.

[hemicuda]

the 1800 will use the same file generated by the HDHR. just have to rename it to something like "Hauppauge WinTV 885 TS Capture-0-QAM.scn" and have sage run a scan on it. should pull in the same channels you set up on the HDHR. if you've tried that and it still doesn't work, i'll not be much help.

[Rezolution]

I had this problem with the cat5 cables I was making myself. When i was wiring them, I wasn't paying attention to the color coding of the cables. If you dont mix 1,3 2,6 onto different wire pairs, you will get intermittent stuttering. When making your own cables up, you have to follow the color coding suggested by the standards for cables or you will get odd types of interference.

Try making straight through cables up with the following color codes on both sides.

white/orange
orange
white/green
blue
white/blue
green
white/brown
brown

When I made my cables up white/orange, orange, white/green, green, white/blue, blue, white/brown, brown, it was still a straight through cable, but I was getting all kind of interference, packet drops, etc because I wasn't splitting the pairs for send and receive.

Also, some crimpers just are just crap. I had to buy a cable tester

Or you could always buy some premade cat6 cables. At this point, what's another $20?

[kmp14]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

I am wondering if you have allocated more memory to the JVM. Can you bump up to 512 or even 1024?

B

Already set to 1024

[kmp14]

Originally Posted by Rezolution

I had this problem with the cat5 cables I was making myself. When i was wiring them, I wasn't paying attention to the color coding of the cables. If you dont mix 1,3 2,6 onto different wire pairs, you will get intermittent stuttering. When making your own cables up, you have to follow the color coding suggested by the standards for cables or you will get odd types of interference.

Try making straight through cables up with the following color codes on both sides.

white/orange
orange
white/green
blue
white/blue
green
white/brown
brown

When I made my cables up white/orange, orange, white/green, green, white/blue, blue, white/brown, brown, it was still a straight through cable, but I was getting all kind of interference, packet drops, etc because I wasn't splitting the pairs for send and receive.

Also, some crimpers just are just crap. I had to buy a cable tester

Or you could always buy some premade cat6 cables. At this point, what's another $20?

I make the cables using the 586A standard - white/green, green, white/orange, blue, white/blue, orange, white/brown, brown.

I can put new ends on, using the 586B, worth a try. The cable to the server is in the wall, so the best I can do is crimp new ends on.

The hD200 is near the switch now, so I can use store bought for that.

[carlgar]

Originally Posted by kmp14

Ok, check this out - It DOES happen in stand-alone mode - recorded tv, off of an external USB drive. The HD200 not hooked up to the network. If I keep replaying the same place in the video where it happened, it happens again SOMETIMES....Maybe my HDHomeRuns are producing not the best signal?

Have you tried playing the file with VLC or Windows Media Player? If the source is bad, they should show the problem. If they don't show the problem, then I would use the client or placeshifter to play the file and see if they have an issue.

[MeInMaui]

In case it got lost in the crossfire, I'll mention again that you should try ripping a DVD and see if that works for you. I still think the source is suspect.

Aloha,
Mike

[wrems]

I’m with Mike. Also, you may want to run one of your suspect recordings through Video Redo’s Quick Stream Fix and then try it again in both standalone and extender modes.

[_Demo_]

Originally Posted by kmp14

I have a problem when watching TV where every 30-45 seconds the video stutters or twitches. It is not in the signal because it is not reproducable (does not happen at the same place in a recording every time).

Could you describe the problem with more details?

Does the image freeze for around 0.5 seconds or is it more like a single frame? When playback continues after the problem did you miss any video frames or it was paused? While the problem happens what is the sound output? Have you tried using different output connectors and modes? What about different sources, can you see the problem with a downloaded movie trailer file?

Thanks

_Demo_

[freedml]

I've been through most of what you've been through, support, logs, etc. etc. etc. for months and months. Here's a possible solution that I don't think you've tried:


Go back to 20090505 firmware. I know, it's a pain, but once you've got a USB drive properly set up with and dedicated to these drivers, it's easy to try "the latest greatest beta release that has solved all problems" and then 'high-tail' it back to 20090505 when it doesn't work. It isn't perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than anything I've tried since. Make sure you carefully follow the instructions about changing the driver file names.


PS You using a switch, too? I think the HD200 may have a problem dealing with switches. They 'enchanced' the network drivers after 20090505 and I think they mucked them up vis-a-vis at least some switches. Is it a gigabit switch?

[kmp14]

Originally Posted by freedml

I've been through most of what you've been through, support, logs, etc. etc. etc. for months and months. Here's a possible solution that I don't think you've tried:


Go back to 20090505 firmware. I know, it's a pain, but once you've got a USB drive properly set up with and dedicated to these drivers, it's easy to try "the latest greatest beta release that has solved all problems" and then 'high-tail' it back to 20090505 when it doesn't work. It isn't perfect, but it's a helluva lot better than anything I've tried since. Make sure you carefully follow the instructions about changing the driver file names.


PS You using a switch, too? I think the HD200 may have a problem dealing with switches. They 'enchanced' the network drivers after 20090505 and I think they mucked them up vis-a-vis at least some switches. Is it a gigabit switch?

Tried 20090505 firmware and Feb 09 (0216 I think) same problem.

My main setup is a gigabit switch, but as I mentioned in the first post, I have tried a couple different configs that did not inlcude Gig switches.

[kmp14]

Originally Posted by _Demo_

Could you describe the problem with more details?

Does the image freeze for around 0.5 seconds or is it more like a single frame? When playback continues after the problem did you miss any video frames or it was paused? While the problem happens what is the sound output? Have you tried using different output connectors and modes? What about different sources, can you see the problem with a downloaded movie trailer file?

Thanks

_Demo_

Best I can describe it, the image "twitches" almost like everything jumped up 10 pixels and then back down.

Sound is not affected.

I have tried HDMI and Component - same problem.

In about 15 minutes of testing, I did not see it happen if I set the output to 720p (not a long term solution).

I tried a ripped DVD and I did not see it happen...so some may think it is a problem with the signal, but: I have also been running MCE, and recording from the same source (HDHomeRun) and the pic is rock solid - not a single twitch....So...if there is a "problem" with the signal, the HD200 can't handle it, but the Linksys DMA2100 can. When using sage, I DO disable all the MCE services, BTW.

Thanks so much, everyone for all of the tips and input!!

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by kmp14

Tried 20090505 firmware and Feb 09 (0216 I think) same problem.

Only thing I can think of that might help. Go back to the latest firmware and try these server sage.property settings (one at a time):
miniplayer/forced_max_push_size=32768
miniplayer/forced_max_push_size=65536

Make sure you shut down SageTV/SageTV service before you edit the properties file.

[jvl711]

Originally Posted by kmp14

Best I can describe it, the image "twitches" almost like everything jumped up 10 pixels and then back down.

Sound is not affected.

I have tried HDMI and Component - same problem.

In about 15 minutes of testing, I did not see it happen if I set the output to 720p (not a long term solution).

I tried a ripped DVD and I did not see it happen...so some may think it is a problem with the signal, but: I have also been running MCE, and recording from the same source (HDHomeRun) and the pic is rock solid - not a single twitch....So...if there is a "problem" with the signal, the HD200 can't handle it, but the Linksys DMA2100 can. When using sage, I DO disable all the MCE services, BTW.

Thanks so much, everyone for all of the tips and input!!

kmp14, I just want to give some words of encouragement. I have been using Sage for a long time, and I have seen issues like this come and go. Sometimes I created the issues, sometimes Sage created them, and other times a hardware vendor created them.

I must say the description of the video glitch that you are getting seems very odd. This is not the type of issue I would expect from network glitch or a recording source issue. When I have source issues with the HDHR I normally get audio glitches, and the video is garbled. When I have network issues I normally get pauses in play back with some video and audio glitches.

I know you said you used component and hdmi, but did you try 1080i, and possibly another TV? I have seen issues early on with the HD100 where I could not pet 1080p to work reliably. I would get some odd behavior like you are describing. Are you using the included HDMI cable?

If 720p works without issue I would rule out your server and you network, because the HD200 is doing all of the heavy lifting changing the resolution. I would focus on the HD200, and your audio video cabling.

I hope some of this info is helpful!

[valnar]

I was about to say it could be your TV, since that's a constant, but then you mentioned it happened in component too. That makes it less likely.

Was it happening directly on your Sage box or with a Sage client?

[jvl711]

Originally Posted by valnar

I was about to say it could be your TV, since that's a constant, but then you mentioned it happened in component too. That makes it less likely.

Was it happening directly on your Sage box or with a Sage client?

I am just trying to figure out why it gets better when he switches the output to 720p. If it is OK in 720p, then it would really seem that the problem was with the HD200, video cable or TV.

[mikejaner]

Sorry if I'm late to the game, I saw your post yesterday but didn't read it due to time constraints....
Anyways, I had some very similar issues happen to me on two separate occasions last year, and within a few months of each other. It was mostly due to me wanting to upgrade my network architecture or servers. I eventually hammered them out. I thought I would share since you seem to be doing the same thing I was, which is

The first time I encountered studdering, or glitching every 30 seconds or so, was right around the time I went out and bought a bunch of linksys/cisco switches, to upgrade my network to gigabit speed. I went to best buy and bought those soho class ones and all was well for a couple of weeks. This is why I didn't think it was the new switches at first. I started switching them out with my old switches one at a time to see what was causing the issue. That didn't seem to fix it so I started replacing the nics and cables in my network. The hard part about it was when replacing a nic or cable, would sometimes temporarily fix the issue. Also settings on the nic, like flow control settings, and TCP assist settings etc.. for the nic would also seem to fix the issue for a short while. Long story short, and a couple of thousand hairs later, I ended up methodically replacing my NIC's, with Netgear switches, also gigabit, and the problem vanished. I even set all the nics back to their default settings etc.... I am never buying linksys switches again.

Second story I felt pretty confident about WHS, after reading all of the success stories and decided, I should set one up to repace my software raid5 array on my 2008 server (dumb I know). I was attracted by all of the features like network backups, web access etc... and I like to play
I got these pauses, where the show would freeze up on my hd200's for something like 20-30 seconds, then resume as if nothing happened. I would sometimes lose part of the recording, and sometimes it would just lockup completely. After sending logs to SageTV and a few emails later, it was determined to be the folder duplication WHS does. If you look at the process which scans for file changes and then starts the duplication, you will see it practically take over the system. That would override anything SageTV was trying to do no matter what. I was done with WHS after that. I moved back to XP and my Raid5 on my 2008 server and everything went back to normal. I have now moved my raid5, to and XFS formatted volume on an Ubuntu server, and still have no issues, with better throughput.
Anways, hope these two stories are at least a few minutes of interesting reading if not helpful.
Mike

[kevine]

Originally Posted by carlgar

Have you tried playing the file with VLC or Windows Media Player? If the source is bad, they should show the problem. If they don't show the problem, then I would use the client or placeshifter to play the file and see if they have an issue.

I cannot emphasize enough how true and important this 1 fact is in all the trouble I have had with this type of problem. This 1 troubleshooting tip splits your field of possible problems in half. It takes Sage, the extender, sage player and all add-ons out of the picture. However, to take the Sage recording out of the mix, watch live through HDHR manager.

Now, on to my beliefs of this problem. My guess is that running the above test will produce the same result playing from VLC or WMP. Why? because I had the same "type" of problem. It did not jump but the screen paused every once in a while with distortion. I think your problem is the signal. Yes, I know you used WMC to record with no problem but that was not Sage writing the file or reading the signal. A few questions:

1. What does your signal strength say in Sage for the HDHRs? Each tuner.
2. How is your cable split? I don't remember if you use OTA or cable.
3. In the HDHR manager what is the signal strength?
4. In the HDHR manager what is the signal quality?
5. In the HDHR manager what is the symbol quality? This is where I found my problem. This number should be 100% (100% of the time). Mine was 100% but when I watched a live feed using the HDHR provided software (VLC), I would get that glitch when it jumped off 100. I believe it is only 0 or 100 but I could be wrong.
See here for their defaults. Page 8, Video corruption / glitch

My problem: Bad coax cables and cabling. I created my own and the copper sheath was touching the core on the main feed line before splitting.

Also note that is is possible to have too strong of a signal as well as a weak signal.

Good luck.

[carlgar]

Originally Posted by jvl711

I am just trying to figure out why it gets better when he switches the output to 720p. If it is OK in 720p, then it would really seem that the problem was with the HD200, video cable or TV.

I tend to agree with the above. If the source were bad then 720p should show the problem. I would focus on the HDMI cable which might be border line. The 1080i may push it over the edge. He also stated he has tried 3 Hd200s and 3 TVs. Time to try 3 cables.