Goodbye Sage

[chrispy]

I consider myself an pretty advanced computer user who just spent 55 minutes trying to update Sage to display the time correctly.

I am amazed that the best Sage can do is mark a post "sticky" at the top of this forum for something as major as this. One would think that after seeing this error, all I would do is simply go to the support page of sage.tv to find notice of the update or fix. Nothing. You are forced to read through 4 pages of "this will work" and "this will not work", trying to guess what path I need to take to resolve the issue.

I have been running Sage for about three years, with no new features really being added or bugs being fixed and find the latest pay for update laughable, but I have remained true until today. In total I spent about 55 minutes trying to resolve this time issue, when it could of been a single email from Sage and a few clicks. I paid Sage not Sun.

Goodbye Sage! Hello Vista!

[aedgington]

I'm about 30 minutes away from feeling the same way, been a Sage user for 4 years, and this may be the final straw.

[Opus4]

You can argue that there could be an entry about this on the SageTV web site and/or SageTV should consider sending out an email announcement in the future for such special issues, but I don't understand how it could take that much time browsing the forum to figure out how to fix this.

There is a forum-wide announcement that is still active, which points you to the sticky thread on this topic, along with the specific post mentioning what versions of Java should work.

If you miss the announcement, the sticky thread referred to in the first post was previously edited to include the comment about updating Windows and Java, and links to the post about which Java versions can be used.

This isn't very difficult. You need to:

1. Make sure Windows is updated to include the DST fix
2. Make sure Java is updated to a version that has the DST fix

That's pretty much it. The rest of the sticky thread is mostly fluff; that's why I linked directly to the post you need to read, both in the announcement and in the first post of that sticky thread.

Oh -- and make sure SageTV isn't running while doing the update.

Over the weekend, the SageTV EPG server had a problem, but that has been fixed by now too, as noted in the announcement.

- Andy

[Goodspike]

I didn't have that much problem, but that was because:

1. I frequent this forum.
2. I was aware of DST issues, and looking for them particularly with respect to DVR software.
3. The thread on the issue was much shorter when I first saw it.
4. I was looking for a reason to upgrade Java, and when someone posted 1.6 was no longer beta, that was all it took.

I'd done the Windows update months ago, before it was a critical update.

That said, and email would be nice. Not all users come to this forum.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by Opus4

You can argue that there could be an entry about this on the SageTV web site and/or SageTV should consider sending out an email announcement in the future for such special issues, but I don't understand how it could take that much time browsing the forum to figure out how to fix this.

Andy,
First of all you shouldn't realy on the forum to fix problems like this. It should be in a Sage support area as well as emails. Also it shouldn't realy on users reading 3-pages of conversations from people who don't necessarilly know what they are talking about (anybody can post in that forum). There should be a patch or batchfile available to be downloaded and that should fix the issue without any extra work from your customers.

[sandor]

well, where can i complain to microsoft about not suppling a DST fix for windows 2000? it is ridiculous that i had to seek out a 3rd party solution for their OS, and even more ridiculous that there wasnt something posted on the Windows Software Update webpage saying that Windows 2000 would not have a supported DST fix....

[AngelofDeth]

This is probably because Windows 2000 is in "entended" support, and MS is not providing any support except for security fixes. I think if you have a very expensive support contract, they have such a fix available for windows 2000 though...

[Motofreak75]

off topic
I had no problem finding a fix for windows 2k today and found it on their support site. it took me only 3 minutes to find it.
/on topic

And whats with all this people starving for attention, starting all these Good bye and farewell threads ???

I'm sorry your having issues and want to be spoon feed, to solve all your issues but, it has been said before.....

Hint: it starts with a Sea***

[traker1001]

I didn't have that much problem, but that was because:

1. I frequent this forum.
2. I was aware of DST issues, and looking for them particularly with respect to DVR software.
3. The thread on the issue was much shorter when I first saw it.
4. I was looking for a reason to upgrade Java, and when someone posted 1.6 was no longer beta, that was all it took.

I'd done the Windows update months ago, before it was a critical update.

That said, and email would be nice. Not all users come to this forum.

Ditto

All the good software lacks real support, At least some have forums, Would you rather them fix the problem or hold your hand, I doubt they can afford to do both, So they leave it up to knowledgable forum members.

So this is a shout out to all you potential good bye posters, Just go and don't post, Cause I doubt anyone is really gonna miss ya! As my daughter would say "See ya!"

[olyar15]

Ditto.

[astribli]

Originally Posted by Opus4

You can argue that there could be an entry about this on the SageTV web site and/or SageTV should consider sending out an email announcement in the future for such special issues, but I don't understand how it could take that much time browsing the forum to figure out how to fix this.

- Andy

Just to compare how "other" companies handle things like this. Tivo sent us an e-mail a couple weeks ago about the time change issue. Maybe that is one reason they have millions of customers?

It gets back to how a company views their customers, and customer support. As stated elsewhere, not everyone comes to this forum every day, or week, or month, etc. Being proactive may take a bit of time up front, but can sure pay off in the long run.

[aedgington]

Originally Posted by traker1001

So this is a shout out to all you potential good bye posters, Just go and don't post, Cause I doubt anyone is really gonna miss ya! As my daughter would say "See ya!"

So exclaims the authoritative voice of someone who's been using Sage less than a year. Wait until the shiny wears off.

Andy; all anyone REALLY wants for a problem like this is a "heads up" and a stickied, LOCKED thread. Not digging through 5+ pages of posts saying whether it worked or not. Maybe a proactive email. Maybe a package fix on the main site. Things like this are EXACTLY why those of us that get our Sage installs stable don't want to "upgrade" when ya'll put out a new version.

[Mortanis]

Wait... this isn't Sage's fault... why would you blame them? The issue is the DST change in general - it isn't Sage's fault DST was changed, and that Windows/Java needed updates to understand the changes. Bitching about Sage when it is a completely external problem is pretty narrow minded.

I feel your pain, but blaming the developers of Sage for not alerting you to the fact that WINDOWS needs a fix is asinine - Sage isn't responsible for you keeping your computer up to date.

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by Mortanis

Wait... this isn't Sage's fault... why would you blame them? The issue is the DST change in general - it isn't Sage's fault DST was changed, and that Windows/Java needed updates to understand the changes. Bitching about Sage when it is a completely external problem is pretty narrow minded.

I feel your pain, but blaming the developers of Sage for not alerting you to the fact that WINDOWS needs a fix is asinine - Sage isn't responsible for you keeping your computer up to date.

Quite honestly, I see both sides. I work in the service industry. If you don't go above and beyond expectations, you can't win. While it wasn't SageTV's problem to fix, it sure affected their product negatively. I think what they did was likely thought of as enough. Perhaps looking back, something else should have been done because all of their users do not frequent the forums for support.

I would like to see some sort of system messaging feature added, which could be opted out of, for them to post messages right to the TV.

my 2

b

[dealsdyker]

Opus,

I agree with the many posters who are frustrated when an Official sage announcement points to a user thread several pages long.

I got on the forum last week and read the post quickly...
Post1: Does anyone know what issues we need to be aware of for the new DST change being implemented in the US this year? Are there Java updates, SageTV updates, etc... that we need to be ready for?
Post2: Windows automatically updates for DST via the NTP server, so I don't think we need to worry.

That's literally as far as I read. I'm too busy and figured all must be fine. I also did a search for Java versions a few weeks back (on this forum) to try to determine the "official supported" version because my box is exclusive for Sage and that is the only version I wanted on there. It was difficult to find the answer. I ended up leaving whatever version the Sage 6.0 install put on the machine, figuring it is right and 100% supported. Question: Is Java 1.6 now officially supported/blessed by Sage?

Don't take this the wrong way but the announcement from Sage for DST could have been as short and concise as your post but including links to the supported Java versions and to the Microsoft bulletin.. summarizing the issue and resolution. Rather that than wading through posts including those from people who apparently don't know what they're talking about.

Imagine if Microsoft put out a fix their software and linked a user forum where people were chatting, going off topic, mis-informing about how to fix things.

A final suggestion. I come from the replayTV world and my replay box has a "message" area where Replay can send me important text messages. Replay actually did utilize this messaging system to tell people how to update their units for DST. Sage could/should implement such a messaging system to push out important patching information to customers. You could also use the same messaging system to tell people about new point releases or complete new products.

I hope you take this criticism constructively as it is not meant to be taken any other way.

[mattdcknsn]

I wasn't affected much at all by the DST change, but the only area that it bothers me is that we had almost 2 years before now to have everything patched and updated. Congress passed the law in August 2005, Sun and MS had more than enough time to update everything. With all the patches and updates out there it should have been taken care of a long time ago.

[traker1001]

Just to compare how "other" companies handle things like this. Tivo sent us an e-mail a couple weeks ago about the time change issue. Maybe that is one reason they have millions of customers?

It gets back to how a company views their customers, and customer support. As stated elsewhere, not everyone comes to this forum every day, or week, or month, etc. Being proactive may take a bit of time up front, but can sure pay off in the long run.

Agreed it would be nice, But not even close to a deal breaker.

So exclaims the authoritative voice of someone who's been using Sage less than a year. Wait until the shiny wears off.

Andy; all anyone REALLY wants for a problem like this is a "heads up" and a stickied, LOCKED thread. Not digging through 5+ pages of posts saying whether it worked or not. Maybe a proactive email. Maybe a package fix on the main site. Things like this are EXACTLY why those of us that get our Sage installs stable don't want to "upgrade" when ya'll put out a new version.

Uh, I have been using sage in itself on and off for more than a year, I only seriously started using it about 6 months ago. I did run into a few problems and had some pretty dumb question, Every one of which was answered in this forum more quickly and politely than anyone being actually payed by frey would have probably done. As far as the sage forum goes, I started browsing probably about a year and a half before I ever actually started using sage, I only registered right before sage 6 came out.

I have been using other forums such as Sve****, DDW**, Micro****, Amongst many many many many many others for just as many different products, And in each forum there are those annoying I WANT ATTENTION goodbye threads. Again I say GOODBYE!, Don't post, Don't look back, Your post isn't going to change anything, And no one is going to miss you, Just go! On the other hand if you actually want help or have a legit question by all means post, Just please don't go threatning to leave over it!

And by the way, I don't think there is anything authoritative about my post it is just an individule opinion just like yours!

Just to compare how "other" companies handle things like this. Tivo sent us an e-mail a couple weeks ago about the time change issue. Maybe that is one reason they have millions of customers?

It gets back to how a company views their customers, and customer support. As stated elsewhere, not everyone comes to this forum every day, or week, or month, etc. Being proactive may take a bit of time up front, but can sure pay off in the long run.

Comparing Tivo and Replay to Sage is Wrong on SO MANY LEVELS! About the only thing they really have in common is they record shows.

And please people M$ and SAGE, M$ support sucks even in the forums... There tech updates are about as clear as mud, And there "Automatic" Windows updates half the time are a waste of space.

One thing that would be nice is if sage would give us a Update button, But again I say it wouldn't ever be a deal breaker, Infact I can see many many cases were it actually might harm the sage program and cause more support headachs.

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by dealsdyker

A final suggestion. I come from the replayTV world and my replay box has a "message" area where Replay can send me important text messages. Replay actually did utilize this messaging system to tell people how to update their units for DST. Sage could/should implement such a messaging system to push out important patching information to customers. You could also use the same messaging system to tell people about new point releases or complete new products.

I hope you take this criticism constructively as it is not meant to be taken any other way.

To me this would actually be a good idea (the message thing). The only thing you'd need to worry about is the other STV's would need support added to them for it to work well..

If I remember right, I think the latest versions of SageMC will tell you if there are updates to the stv...

[Razillian]

Originally Posted by chrispy

I paid Sage not Sun.

Goodbye Sage! Hello Vista!

Goodbye free support, hello $250 a phone call! Wahoo! Oh, wait that is a bad thing...

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by mattdcknsn

I wasn't affected much at all by the DST change, but the only area that it bothers me is that we had almost 2 years before now to have everything patched and updated. Congress passed the law in August 2005, Sun and MS had more than enough time to update everything. With all the patches and updates out there it should have been taken care of a long time ago.

Except a lot of Sage users purposefully were not updating Java, because the 1.5 updates were large runny POS.