Long time WMC user making the jump to Sage: Advice needed.

[ToadMazter]

I've been a loooong time Windows Media Center user and fan, and currently have a headless system with dual ATI Cable Card tuners, dual ATSC tuners, and 5 extenders connected to the various HD LCD "viewing locations" throughout the house. We are moving to a new house in about two weeks, and while it is only 15 minutes away, it is in an older rural neighborhood with NO Comcast (or other cable provider) offerings. Because the family loves the multiroom DVR setup we currently have, I’ve decided to make the switch to Sage.
My first HD200 and Sage software license should arrive today for me to play with over the holidays, but now I will also need to build a new headless machine for my tunerfarm (and probably storage). So here are my initial questions:
1. WHS. Because I want a lowpower type tunerfarm/storage box, I’m leaning towards Windows Home Server. Assuming no encoding/decoding/transcoding will be occurring, what WHS-ready barebones kit is recommended? I am contemplating the VIA NSD-7800. (http://www.missingremote.com/index.p...=3979&Itemid=1) Any other offerings preferred for Sage?
2. HD Premium content. Satellite is my only option, which means HD-PVR's or R5000-enabled Dish 211's. I see horror stories about the HD-PVR, and see it may be discontinued, and also that it take 10 secs to change the channel...which is not very WAF-tastic. So should I take the plunge on a couple pre-modded R5000 Dish VIP211's? They are expensive, but if they are solid and will continue to be supported by Dish for the foreseeable future, I'll pull the trigger. Also, as I’ll need to pull some coax cable from the STB’s to the dish, how many cables/links are required for the current antennas (is it a Dish 1000 dish and LNB;s?)?
3. ATSC tuners. I currently use Avermedia PCI-E 1x ATSC cards in my 7MC box. Will those work ok on WHS with Sage, or should I maybe go with an HD Homerun instead?
4. I most likely will replace the existing Linksys/360 MCE extenders with Sage HD200 extenders at four locations. I assume these should play my DVD collection (currently DVR-MS, will have to change container back to VOB or something) and my growing collection of HD-DVD and BluRay rips. I realize AC3 is the only audio option on the HD200’s, so I want to use a ION NetTop I have (AS Rock ION330) for my main media room to get TRUEHD, DTS-HD, etc audio streams. If I remux my HD movies with two audio streams (AC3 and a TRUEHD for example), will the HD200 be able to select the appropriate stream?

Ok, so that’s a lot of questions for now. Thanks for any help and opinions.
Adam

[SWKerr]

I love my WHS but would not go with a Atom\Via based system. You are giving up a lot for not much power savings. Keep in mind it is only the difference in the cpu and motherboard everything else will be the same. An AMD 45w cpu and a 7x0G motherboard, and a couple of "green" drives and you are better off. If you build it yourself you can get a case capable of housing a lot more drives and it will have more expansion possibilities.

From Tom's Hardware:

Smart Component Choice Beats Low-Power PCs

The idea of getting an Atom system or one based on VIA’s C7 or Nano processors for your home server or multi-purpose hallway or living room PC sounds very reasonable, as these were designed to consume little power. But these products will fail you as soon as you need more performance. Atom, Nano and others are great solutions for workloads that are fully predictable and controllable, but your everyday work is not. You may want to use a new application, which means the dedicated low power machines will fall flat on their figurative faces. Going for a reasonably-configured high-efficiency PC will cost a bit more, but it will not increase the idle power by much, while providing you with performance reserves that are many times above the level of the low-power options we’ve been testing for the past few weeks here at Tom’s Hardware.

Full Article Link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-g31,2039.html

Playon is an App you will probably want to run on the server and it will use significant cpu. Sage itself would be fine.

[MitchSchaft]

Yeah, you need some power on that WHS box. I switched from MCE2005 and a couple linksys extenders and an xbox 360 almost a year ago. I haven't looked back.
There's alpha software floating around by babgvant that may allow you to utilize your ATI cablecards as network tuners. But, you would have to have WMC set up and running on another box. I'm not sure how well it's working out, but you can take a look if you want:
http://babgvant.com/files/folders/sa...ntry14737.aspx

[SWKerr]

I have DirecTV and use a special USB cord to change the channel and it does not take long at all. Even when I was using the USB-UIRT it did not take more than a few seconds.

The HD-PVR works great for most people at this point but there can still be individual issues. Buy it local so you can easily return it if you have problems. I have two running on my WHS and had to return one of the early models but they are pretty solid now.

I had a Avermedia PCI-E in my WHS for awile and it worked fine. I have a HDHR now and it is very nice. If the price of the R5000 doesn't scare you then I would spend the $130 on the HD Homerun. It would definitly be worth it if you decide to use a off the shelf Atom based WHS as they usually have almost no expansion slots. Also: Remember you will need a decent antenna. You should check to see if you have and VHF stations in your area and make sure you get a UHF\VHF combo antenna if you do. Note: I have a bad multi-path problem at my house so good OTA reception is not guaranteed.

If the Ion NetTop is to save power then like my server post the power saving are way overblown. If you set the HTPC to go to sleep then the real word power savings are negligible. A real HTPC would give you a better experience and will be more expandable.

TRUEHD, DTS-HD: I don't have the highest end audio systems but I have one relatively nice Onkyo based system that supports TRUEHD and DTS-HD but only has 5 speakers with a sub woofer. I can't tell the difference between AC3 and TRUEHD or DTS-HD. Point is unless you have a good audio system this may be a waste of effort.

Also: I do not have an extender at this point (all HTPCs) but it seems like I read it can be setup to pass thru TRUEHD\DTS-HD to a device that can decode it. If you have I high end receiver you may be ok. I will ask that someone who has one comment on this assumption since I really could be flat out wrong.

[davephan]

It is easy to add additional storage with WHS. However, the big downside to WHS is no simple way to recover the WHS operating system, program files, and hundreds or thousands of configuration parameters.

I was going to switch to Windows 7 for my new SageTV computer, which I am building up now. Windows 7 isn't officially supported yet, so I am going to stay with Windows XP Pro, 32-bit version. I'll switch to Windows 7 when the problems are shaken out and it is officially supported. I plan to setup RAID 1 drive pairs for redundancy.

I image my SageTV computer with Ghost. The new system will probably use Acronis. I can easily and quickly recover my SageTV system to a normal working state with images. The same thing cannot be said for WHS.

The HD-PVR can work reliability for months. Some people have better luck, some worse. If you want HD and you don't want to be stuck with Dish Network, then the HD-PVR is the choice. Then you can switch between DirecTV and Dish Network. Maybe you could also switch to cable if they run lines near you in the future. I switch between providers about every 2 - 3 years, depending on which one has the better offer. I found using the HD-PVR IRblaster made my HD-PVR unstable, so I use the USB-UIRT with the HD-PVR.

Dave

[ToadMazter]

Thanks all for the great responses! (and sorry for the mispell of "jump" in the thread title -doh!)

I am somewhat concerned about the longevity of the VIP211's and R5000 for Dish, so I'll reconsider the HD-PVR. SWKerr mentioned a usb cable for changing channels, what cable is that, and which DirecTV STB's are compatible?

Thanks again for the help!!

Adam

[SWKerr]

Here is a guide on how to make one. I know it works with the H20 and H21. I have never missed a recording due to the channel change with this setup although I can not say I had issues when I used the USB-UIRT. I have never used the Blaster that came with the HD-PVR. http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37863

Also: Patersontech sells a cord that works on them as well. The site has a Compatibility List: http://www.patersontech.com/

Used this on DISH for my dad's setup although his does not use an HD-PVR.
http://www.usbuirt.com/

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by davephan

It is easy to add additional storage with WHS. However, the big downside to WHS is no simple way to recover the WHS operating system, program files, and hundreds or thousands of configuration parameters.

Dave

I agree that the OS recovery part of WHS sucks but just to be clear for a newbie you can put in a new boot drive and reinstall WHS and it will find and recover your drive array. You will not loose anything you set to duplicate.

I have lost data on a Raid 5 setup in the past. Raid is not perfect. I actually prefer knowing I can take the drives from my WHS and put them in any machine and read what is on them. That is typically not true in a Raid setup.

I would think a SSD for the boot drive for a WHS would be the best option but they are still more than I want to spend for the piece of mind. It sucks that you can't install it on a drive smaller than 80gb. I know mine doesn't use 20gb of the 300gb boot drive. All the data is on the large drives in the array. I hope to move to a SSD whenever they put out the next version of WHS but price will still be key.

[sic0048]

I think all the advice you've gotten so far is spot on. I also would not recommend going "low power" for the Sage server. Not because SageTV needs a lot of power - especially with the tuners you are looking at. But rather because some of the optional stuff does take a lot of power.

Once you get your feet wet, you are going to want to look into the PlayOn plugin which allows you to view Hulu, Amazon VOD, and Netflix material right through the Sage GUI.

There is also several commercial skipping options that take some power to run - especially on the HD content of a HD-PVR or R5000 STB. It is suggested that you run only 1 instance of Comskip per core and leave one core for basic SageTV functionality. So if you want three instances of Comskip running (to scan and mark commercials in three programs at the same time), then you want a quad core machine. If you want 1 instance of Comskip running, then a dual core is probably the minimum machine you want.

Once you start looking at these optional capabilities that are available in SageTV, you'll be glad you didn't go with a low power machine.

I just recently rebuilt my server and went with a quad core machine. I run Comskip, Playon, and several other tasks (like my home automation software) on the machine and I wouldn't be able to do that reliably on a dual core machine. Of course my case is a little unique because of the extra programs I am running, but having the extra power to do stuff is nice.

[ToadMazter]

As I will run a few other apps, I probably won't go with an Atom based WHS build. But my reason for wanting lower power consumption isn't as much about lower utility bills as much as it is about heat dissapation. This gear will all be in a closet, and from my early MCE days I've learned the hard way regarding how quickly heat can build up. I probably will vent the closet out through the attic to the roof, but I'd rather not run an AC duct in keep things in an ok temp range. I don't care much about the comskip apps, and I try to not ever transcode, but the PlayOn features are something I'll probably want to include. Hopefully I can stay with a 45nm 65W CPU for the WHS build.

Regarding the HD-PVR, rumors are it is discontinued, and I am also concerned with the quality of the re-encoded H264 content. I'm somewhat of a snob when it comes to AV quality, and prefer not to reencode... but the price point is much nicer than the R5000. Any other "snobs" out there care to comment on the quality comparison?

Again, thanks for the "sage" advice (I'm sure that pun has never been used here ).

Adam

[sic0048]

When setup correctly, I think there is little difference between the HD-PVR recordings and the original broadcast. While some people have complained about the picture, they usually state that it looks similar to SD quality. If that is the case, then something is wrong.

If you can live with the quality difference between cable/OTA vs. Satellite broadcasts, then you should be able to live with the HD-PVR quality IMHO because the difference between cable/OTA and satellite is much worse than the output of the HD-PVR vs. the original.

[will]

Originally Posted by ToadMazter

Regarding the HD-PVR, rumors are it is discontinued

Where did you read that rumor? I posted about the HD-PVR not being available on Newegg. I contact Hauppauge since and according to their sales department the "HD-PVR is as popular as ever and we have far more orders than units to ship."

[davephan]

Originally Posted by will

Where did you read that rumor? I posted about the HD-PVR not being available on Newegg. I contact Hauppauge since and according to their sales department the "HD-PVR is as popular as ever and we have far more orders than units to ship."

I checked Newegg right after I saw a post about the HD-PVR being a 'discontinued item'. Sure enough, it said 'discontinued item' on the Newegg web site last week. I just checked the Newegg web site today, and the HD-PVR is for sale, priced at $209.99 + $8.50 for shipping.

Dave

[ToadMazter]

Hmmm... NewEgg still shows it as a "Deactiviated Item" for me. Perhaps I missed it yesterday. But Dell shows in stock for $239.... The new home closes escrow tomorrow, so I better hurry up and get a couple quick!

EDIT: Dell doesn't have stock either. I went ahead and ordered direct from Hauppauge. Fingers crossed that they will have some!

EDIT 2: Got an email from Hauppauge stating they too did not have stock on the HD-PVR's. I signed closing docs today on the new house, so I pulled the trigger on two pre-modded Dish VIP 211 R5000 units. Those buggers aren't cheap!!!

[ToadMazter]

Just an update to this thread. We succesfully moved!! (I hope to NEVER go through that again). I did receive two R5000 Dish VIP211 receivers, and I finally placed the order today for a HP EX495 Home server (and additional $60 off through tomorrow on NewEgg) and a HDHomeRun. Should have the new system up and going by the end of the week (fingers crossed!). I'll then have some 7MC stuff and CableCard tuners to sell.

Adam