SageMCTuner - anyone have this working with cablecard?

[xj-boonie]

[QUOTE=Mythikal;457386]System info:
Windows 7 Pro x64
AMD Athlon II x4 635
6 GB RAM
Onboard ATI video
2 1TB WD Black in a RAID 0 (For 7MC recordings. Green drives proved to be too slow for 4 HD streams.)
1 1TB WD Black for each tuner (This could be overkill.)
Ceton tuner

<-- snip -->

I'm looking at rebuilding my machine for my Ceton card using that CPU (well the 640) and was wondering what motherboard you are using.

Also, I've got 2 1TB WD Greens and a 750MB WD Green that I was going to use but not in RAID. Is there a reason your using RAID? And if I read that correctly, you've got 6 hard drives? My case only allows for 3....

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by xj-boonie

I'm looking at rebuilding my machine for my Ceton card using that CPU (well the 640) and was wondering what motherboard you are using.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0335963

Also, I've got 2 1TB WD Greens and a 750MB WD Green that I was going to use but not in RAID. Is there a reason your using RAID?

I'm using RAID because of the fairly intense I/O requirements for SageMCTuner. The way SageMCTuner works is that it tells 7MC to record a show which then gets written to a recording folder. Unfortunately, 7MC doesn't have the ability to split tuners between drives/folders, so it all gets written to the same place. Then SageMCTuner muxes that show on the fly to make it playable in Sage. So you have a lot of reads/writes happening all at once especially if you're using all 4 tuners.

I'm only using RAID for the 7MC recording folder because that's where you'll see the most intense I/O. I did originally use 2 green drives in a RAID, but I found that it just wasn't fast enough to handle 4 simultaneous HD streams. I haven't crunched the numbers so I don't know if my paranoia is warranted, but I know that I had problems with the green drives and not with the black drives. I see no reason to change at this point.

And if I read that correctly, you've got 6 hard drives? My case only allows for 3....

I do have more than 6 drives, but I use 6 for recorded TV. Most of the drives are in an external enclosure, but the RAID is internal.

[xj-boonie]

Originally Posted by Mythikal

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0335963



I'm using RAID because of the fairly intense I/O requirements for SageMCTuner. The way SageMCTuner works is that it tells 7MC to record a show which then gets written to a recording folder. Unfortunately, 7MC doesn't have the ability to split tuners between drives/folders, so it all gets written to the same place. Then SageMCTuner muxes that show on the fly to make it playable in Sage. So you have a lot of reads/writes happening all at once especially if you're using all 4 tuners.

I'm only using RAID for the 7MC recording folder because that's where you'll see the most intense I/O. I did originally use 2 green drives in a RAID, but I found that it just wasn't fast enough to handle 4 simultaneous HD streams. I haven't crunched the numbers so I don't know if my paranoia is warranted, but I know that I had problems with the green drives and not with the black drives. I see no reason to change at this point.


I do have more than 6 drives, but I use 6 for recorded TV. Most of the drives are in an external enclosure, but the RAID is internal.

So... 7MC can only record to one drive per tuner, but you can assign a different drive to each tuner? And then does SageMCTuner mux the show to the same drive?

Or it goes the 7MC recordings go to RAID then get muxed to the 4 other non-RAID drives?

Do you use your machine for playback or just as a server?

I'm just trying to figure out how to deal with this... What enclosures do you use for external drives?

Thanks again and I'm sure I'll have more questions.

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by xj-boonie

So... 7MC can only record to one drive per tuner, but you can assign a different drive to each tuner?

Originally Posted by Mythikal

Unfortunately, 7MC doesn't have the ability to split tuners between drives/folders, so it all gets written to the same place.

And then does SageMCTuner mux the show to the same drive? Or it goes the 7MC recordings go to RAID then get muxed to the 4 other non-RAID drives?

I have Sage set up to use different drives (the non-RAID ones) depending on the tuner. That's configurable in the sage.properties file.

Do you use your machine for playback or just as a server?

Server only.

What enclosures do you use for external drives?

The item is deactivated on newegg, but this is what I'm currently using.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc..._-NA-_-NA-_-NA

[xj-boonie]

I think I've got it - all 4 tuners of the Ceton card have to record to the 1 drive.

But then they get remuxed into what ever drives you set via sage.properties file.

Your using that enclosure for just more drives - not as a RAID? That looks very slick and I think would work for me - I use my HTPC for both playback and server, and it's in a case in my entertainment rack that goes well with my receiver - I'd hate to have to change it.

Would something like this work: a SSD for the OS, then 2 drives in RAID (totally unsure of how to set that up - do they have to be identical?) for Ceton to record to, then X number of drives in an enclosure like you linked that SageTV would record to?

[Fuzzy]

Mythikal,
Just some advise - you shouldn't have to assign drives to tuners in v7 anymore to make sure they split. Instead, you can not set sage to 'Performance' mode, where it will choose spread recordings among the drives itself. This avoids the problems with your highest merit tuners drives filling up first. In performance mode, the 1st tuner will record to the drive with the most free space, but the second tuner will then record to the NEXT highest amount of free space, and so on. Really should work quite well.

[xj-boonie]

Originally Posted by Mythikal

The item is deactivated on newegg, but this is what I'm currently using.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc..._-NA-_-NA-_-NA

If using that as a port multiplier - can it plug into a motherboards back panel eSATA port?

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Mythikal,
Just some advise - you shouldn't have to assign drives to tuners in v7 anymore to make sure they split.

I don't use v7.

Instead, you can not set sage to 'Performance' mode, where it will choose spread recordings among the drives itself.

If I can't set it, what good does it do?

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by xj-boonie

I think I've got it - all 4 tuners of the Ceton card have to record to the 1 drive.

But then they get remuxed into what ever drives you set via sage.properties file.

Correct.

Your using that enclosure for just more drives - not as a RAID?

Correct.

Would something like this work: a SSD for the OS, then 2 drives in RAID (totally unsure of how to set that up - do they have to be identical?) for Ceton to record to, then X number of drives in an enclosure like you linked that SageTV would record to?

That's how I'm currently doing it, yes (sans the SSD for the OS). As far as identical drives, it depends on the setup. I would recommend it, but you certainly don't have to. I happen to be using two 1 TB WD Black drives.

Originally Posted by xj-boonie

If using that as a port multiplier - can it plug into a motherboards back panel eSATA port?

I see no reason why not. It does come with, and I'm using the, add-on card. But you should be able to use an onboard esata port.

[crarbo1]

Mythikal,
Since you have the Ceton card and have SageMCTuner working for you. I have some generic questions about Windows 7 media center and the Ceton. I knew in the past, Windows XP media center had a tuner limit, does Windows 7 media center have a tuner limit? Can I have 2 Ceton cards for a total of 8 recording streams?

Also, what pros/cons does the Ceton card have over Silicon Dust's upcoming Prime tuner? I know the Prime will only have 3 tuners, so that is a plus for the Ceton. However, do you have any thoughts why it would be better to have the Ceton card over the Prime, other than the number of tuners?

Thanks,
Chuck

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Mythikal

I don't use v7.

If I can't set it, what good does it do?

Any reason you aren't using v7?

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Mythikal,
Since you have the Ceton card and have SageMCTuner working for you. I have some generic questions about Windows 7 media center and the Ceton. I knew in the past, Windows XP media center had a tuner limit, does Windows 7 media center have a tuner limit? Can I have 2 Ceton cards for a total of 8 recording streams?

The default tuner limit is 4. I haven't tried it, but I'm assuming tuner salad would work in this scenario.
http://mychannellogos.com/tunersalad.aspx

Also, what pros/cons does the Ceton card have over Silicon Dust's upcoming Prime tuner? I know the Prime will only have 3 tuners, so that is a plus for the Ceton. However, do you have any thoughts why it would be better to have the Ceton card over the Prime, other than the number of tuners?

I'm not very well versed on the Prime. Someone else wanna take this one?

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Any reason you aren't using v7?

Several reasons. Most of them boil down to the fact that I'm lazy.

Seriously though, everything is working really well right now. Although rolling back to a previous install is a piece of cake, I'm just scared that something's going to break when I upgrade. I'm sure this is an irrational fear, but I'm just not ready to do it yet. Don't get me wrong, it's going to happen. I just don't know when.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by Mythikal

The default tuner limit is 4. I haven't tried it, but I'm assuming tuner salad would work in this scenario.
http://mychannellogos.com/tunersalad.aspx


I'm not very well versed on the Prime. Someone else wanna take this one?

Mythikal,
Thanks for the link to that. I wasn't aware of that. However, I really never set up Win 7 Media Center since I was using SageTV.
Are there any issues setting up Windows 7 Media Center if I already have SageTV installed on a Windows 7 PC? I didn't know if there would be any conflicts that would need to be taken care of.

Prime is not currently release yet but is is a device that is external to the PC and connected to the network via ethernet cable. I have their current version for my Clear QAM channels and it works great. I was curious if there would be any advantage to get that type of Cable Card tuner versus the Ceton card that is internal to the system.

How hard was it to set up the Ceton card? Was their any additional setup via SageTV to make it work, other than the tuner setup?

Thanks for any additional answers,
Chuck

[voorhees]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Mythikal,
Just some advise - you shouldn't have to assign drives to tuners in v7 anymore to make sure they split. Instead, you can not set sage to 'Performance' mode, where it will choose spread recordings among the drives itself. This avoids the problems with your highest merit tuners drives filling up first. In performance mode, the 1st tuner will record to the drive with the most free space, but the second tuner will then record to the NEXT highest amount of free space, and so on. Really should work quite well.

Fuzzy, I have searched around and looked through the manual, but can not find any info on the performance mode you mentioned. Would you please point me in the dirction of addtional info on what the perfromance mode does and how to turn it on or off? Thanks.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by voorhees

Fuzzy, I have searched around and looked through the manual, but can not find any info on the performance mode you mentioned. Would you please point me in the dirction of addtional info on what the perfromance mode does and how to turn it on or off? Thanks.

Yeah, I just realized they changed the naming of it at some point. It is in Detailed Setup -> General -> Video Recording Path Optimization Style: Space/Bandwidth.

Space: When a recording is starting, sage will look at all recording paths, and record to the one with the most free space. This would cause a lot of work on a single drive if that drive happens to have a lot of extra space on it (new drive, recently deleted files, etc)

Bandwidth: Whena recording is starting, sage will look at all recording paths, and record to the one with the most free space and no current recording in progress on that drive. If all drives are already in use, it will record to the one with the most free space of drives with only 1 recording in progress, etc. This will spread the load more evenly across the drives.

It's a great improvement over the old system (which was JUST the Space method), and something the community was barking for for many years. It is one of the MANY great reasons to upgrade to v7.

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Are there any issues setting up Windows 7 Media Center if I already have SageTV installed on a Windows 7 PC? I didn't know if there would be any conflicts that would need to be taken care of.

Windows 7 Home Premium and above have 7MC installed by default. You need both 7MC and SageTV installed to make SageMCTuner work. So, no, they shouldn't conflict with each other as far as the Ceton/cablecard goes.

Prime is ...a device that is external to the PC and connected to the network via ethernet cable. ...I was curious if there would be any advantage to get that type of Cable Card tuner versus the Ceton card that is internal to the system.

Here's a good discussion that might help answer this question.
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/p/92189/475534.aspx

How hard was it to set up the Ceton card? Was their any additional setup via SageTV to make it work, other than the tuner setup?

It was fairly painless. There are a few more steps besides just configuring the tuners though. Here are the instructions.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...6&postcount=33

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by Mythikal

Windows 7 Home Premium and above have 7MC installed by default. You need both 7MC and SageTV installed to make SageMCTuner work. So, no, they shouldn't conflict with each other as far as the Ceton/cablecard goes.


Here's a good discussion that might help answer this question.
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/p/92189/475534.aspx


It was fairly painless. There are a few more steps besides just configuring the tuners though. Here are the instructions.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...6&postcount=33

Mythikal,
Thanks for all the info. I will take a look at this and see what my best option is. I don't have to get this just yet as Comcast in my area still hasn't forced Digital cable on me but I know it is coming and like to be prepared.

Thanks,
Chuck

[kmp14]

I've got my Ceton working with SageTV thanks to Mythikal's instructions and the AWESOME work of Andy VT! So far, everything other than HBO and MGMHD work great. I am on Comcast.

One question, though. I noticed that the source WTV files are not getting deleted. Are your WTV files staying out there? I thought maybe the SageMCTuner service might take care of that, but it does not seem to be happening. I am just going to whip up a script to delete the files after a day or 2, but before I do that, I thought I would ask.

[kmp14]

Originally Posted by kmp14

I've got my Ceton working with SageTV thanks to Mythikal's instructions and the AWESOME work of Andy VT! So far, everything other than HBO and MGMHD work great. I am on Comcast.

One question, though. I noticed that the source WTV files are not getting deleted. Are your WTV files staying out there? I thought maybe the SageMCTuner service might take care of that, but it does not seem to be happening. I am just going to whip up a script to delete the files after a day or 2, but before I do that, I thought I would ask.

Correction - In the other thread discussing SageMCTuner, Andy says that SageMCTuner handles deleting the WTV files, but this is not happening for me. I have also noticed that the WTV files are often locked, even long after the recording is finished, which may explain why they are not getting deleted. Any ideas?