Ceton, SageDCT, and FiOS ***SUCCESS***

[King of Bayonne]

I thought I'd document my (very) recent success here in an effort to help others.

BACKGROUND:

Up until a week ago, I was running SageTV 7.1.5 beta on a homebuilt server getting its feed from Time Warner digital cable. Well, after years of waiting, FiOS TV is finally available in my neighborhood (just outside beautiful crime-free Albany NY). I ordered a Ceton InfiniTV 4 and FiOS TV service. As of this morning, I have everything working 100% and it is the proverbial cat's ass.

HARDWARE:

My SageTV server is a homebuilt Frankenbox based on a Supermicro C2SBC-Q motherboard, Pentium E5200 CPU (2.5 GHz), and 4GB of memory. The system boots from a 250GB SATA drive and has 3 x 1TB 7200RPM SATA drives for recording storage. All disks run off the on-mobo SATA controller.

My tuner complement was 2 x Hauppauge HVR-2250, giving me four simultaneous channels. Clients are 2 x HD200 and a couple of Placeshifter clients, mostly on laptops. The OS is Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1.

All of this stuff was working properly and was rock-solid for years. It has a high SAF (Spousal Approval Factor).

ORDERING THE CETON INFINITV 4:

Once I got confirmation that FiOS TV was truly available for ordering, I immediately placed an order for an InfiniTV 4 with Cannon PC, expecting a long lead time. To my surprise, I received my card within about 8 days of ordering (!!!). Needless to say, I was happy.

ORDERING FIOS TV:

Ordering FiOS TV was about as cut-and-dried as you might expect: call and order the service. I got two hi-def STBs of the non-DVR variety (natch!) and one CableCard for the Ceton. I got an install date scheduled four days from my call.

FIOS TV INSTALL:

I have had FiOS Internet service at my house for about four years, and I wired the entire house with Cat5e and RG-6 when I built it, so the STB install went VERY fast. Unfortunately, there was an administrative issue with the CableCard (they had just gotten an order into the warehouse but the cards hadn't actually been added to the system so they couldn't be paired/activated) so the tech had to return a few days later to complete the install. As soon as he left, I reconfigured the Verizon-supplied router to basically just serve as a MoCA media access device for my existing network, a la "Option 6" as described here, to support the STBs. I then verified that all network connectivity was working, the STBs could call home to get guide and PPV info, etc. So far so good.

CETON INFINITV 4 INSTALL:

On the morning that Verizon was returning to finish the CableCard install, I shut down my SageTV server, removed one of the HVR-2250s, and replaced it with the Ceton card. I booted the system, manually stopped the SageTV service, and installed the lasted software install package available from the Ceton web site (1.1.0.8-20110309). I then used the Ceton diagnostic tool to install the latest release firmware (1.0.3.2).

Next, I followed Ceton's instructions for installing and verifying the tuner under Windows Media Center (yes, without a CableCard in place). The only hiccup I had with this is that my server uses server-class on-mobo video, which 7MC's Digital Cable Advisor felt was not good enough to support video playback. So I used the nice little hack found here to convince it otherwise. Now Windows was all set for serious CableCard fun.

When the Verizon tech arrived with the Cable Card, he simply handed it to me. I installed it in the Ceton and used the diagnostics app to verify that it was working. The tech used the info provided by the diagnostic app to establish pairing and authorization for the card. Within ten minutes I had green lights across the board... test-tuned a few channels and I was in business. The tech rode into the sunset.

ADDING THE CETON TO SAGETV:

With the SageTV service still stopped, I made a backup copy of the SageTV install folder "just to be sure", then installed SageDCT v1.4. It installed just fine, and simple tests from within SageDCT indicated that things were working. I used the SageDCT tool to generate the include parameters for the Sage.properties file. I pasted those parameters to the end of my Sage.properties file. Just for grins, I also went into Device Manager and enabled bridging for the Ceton card in the Advanced tab of its driver. (I don't know if that was strictly necessary or not, but there was some discussion about this in other threads in this forum, so I did it.)

Finally, I started the SageTV service and then launched the SageTV GUI. Went into the video sources configuration and there were my four new tuners, just waiting to be configured. After selecting Verizon FiOS Digital. I had to do some manual editing/tweaking on the program list, but in relatively short order I had all four tuners configured and ready to go Went into Live TV and tuned some channels to verify that things were working. I was stoked.

...AND THEN, THE PLOT THICKENED...

In an effort to maintain a high SAF for the new configuration, I stress tested it by recording six HD channels simultaneously (four InfiniTV channels plus two on the HVR-2250). Much to my chagrin, about a minute after the scheduled recording start time, all four InfiniTV tuners had "beige !" errors indicating that recording had been interrupted. The tuners did recover and finish recording their shows, but of course those recordings were "broken" and fractured over two different .TS files. This behavior was repeatable.

As others have done in other threads, I tried all combinations of older/newer versions of SageDCT, InfiniTV firmware, etc. Every combination had problems, either the interrupted recordings, or "spinning circle of death", etc. I was bummed... so close and yet so far.

CETON TECH SUPPORT TO THE RESCUE

I created an account for myself on the Ceton support site and submitted a trouble ticket. I described the problem I was seeing, mentioned that others in the forum mentioned possible better success with a currently-beta firmware build, and asked that I be given access to the beta firmware. Within 24 hours I received a reply and authorization to use the beta firmware (1.0.3.4 beta), which I was told "solves some problems similar to the one you are seeing."

I updated the firmware, rebooted my server, and re-ran my experiments. With no other changes, THINGS WORKED PERFECTLY. Six error-free simultaneous HD recordings. I repeated this four or five times and it worked 100%!!! w00t!!!

I then viewed some of the test recordings to verify that the audio sync was correct, that Comskip had run correctly, etc. All recordings looked fine.

A WORD ON FIOS AND COPY CONTROL FLAGS:

I subscribe to the FiOS "Extreme" programming package (one step down from the uber "Ultimate" package) and do NOT have any sports or movie packages. I won't claim that I have looked at EVERY channel, but I did spot-check about fifty channels using the InfiniTV's web interface, and every channel I checked had the copy control flags set to "Copy Free" (00). So, at least for the FiOS package I am using in my area, I am somewhat confident in saying that all of the channels I receive are fully copy free. Obviously, your mileage may vary, but at least that's a data point for you.

SUMMARY:

The combination of SageDCT v1.4 and the 1.0.3.4 beta firmware seem to be the key for reliable operation of the Ceton InfiniTV 4 under SageTV 7. Obviously, I've only been using this setup for a very short time, but it seems stable and capable of meeting 100% of my expectations when used with FiOS TV.

I'll update this thread periodically as I have longer-term experience with this combination.


KoB

[PLUCKYHD]

Nice if only all cable companies would allow copy freely but of course that is not the case. Sounds like a nice setup though.

[panteragstk]

I'm really getting tired of the "ha ha, I have FIOS and you don't" threads. It just isn't fair to poke fun at us...

Glad you got everything working. Maybe hell will freeze over and I'll get FIOS in my area...

[sleonard]

Yeah, but by then they'll have figured out that all the copy flags aren't set properly and correct them making FIOS just as useless as regular cable.

S

[Sparhawk6]

Thank you KOB for your extensive and detailed diary of your SageDCT experience. I have been waiting for someone to do this.

I have considered the Ceton card ever since SageDCT came out. But at $400 it is a significant risk considering that it is not officially supported by Sage and Comcast could change the DRM tag on a whim. I think I might wait until the HD Homerun Prime is out to see if Babgvant can get that working with SageDCT. At $250, the risk is almost cut in half.

[srothwell]

Ok... You've got my ready to buy the cablecard tuner. I have FIOS, have for years and would LOVE to get rid of the mongolean clusterf*ck that is 2x HDHR tuners with 2 HDPVR and the cable boxes that go with them.

Before I plunk down $400 I have a few questions....

1. SageDCT says it's a network encoder... Does this mean I have to have a separate pc from the sage server or can all this happen on the same server?

2. Do you know of any way to determine if my FIOS has copy freely, and on which channels? Even though it's easy to return the ceton card for a refund, it's still a pain.

3. Are there any better instructions for setting this all up? I looked at the the guy who wrote sagedct, but the instructions aren't so great.

4. Maybe you said, but which OS are you using?

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by srothwell

Ok... You've got my ready to buy the cablecard tuner. I have FIOS, have for years and would LOVE to get rid of the mongolean clusterf*ck that is 2x HDHR tuners with 2 HDPVR and the cable boxes that go with them.

Before I plunk down $400 I have a few questions....

1. SageDCT says it's a network encoder... Does this mean I have to have a separate pc from the sage server or can all this happen on the same server?

2. Do you know of any way to determine if my FIOS has copy freely, and on which channels? Even though it's easy to return the ceton card for a refund, it's still a pain.

3. Are there any better instructions for setting this all up? I looked at the the guy who wrote sagedct, but the instructions aren't so great.

4. Maybe you said, but which OS are you using?

Now you only have to plunk down $207
http://www.amazon.com/SiliconDust-HD...5&sr=8-1-spell

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

Now you only have to plunk down $207
http://www.amazon.com/SiliconDust-HD...5&sr=8-1-spell

Price gone already. Read that they are releasing the 6 channel version first.

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by srothwell

1. SageDCT says it's a network encoder... Does this mean I have to have a separate pc from the sage server or can all this happen on the same server?

You can run SageDCT right on the Sage server (that's what I'm doing). The tuners do indeed show up as network tuners, but if you run everything on the same box the host associated with them is "localhost" (i.e. the same computer) so no "real on-the-wire" networking takes place.

Originally Posted by srothwell

2. Do you know of any way to determine if my FIOS has copy freely, and on which channels? Even though it's easy to return the ceton card for a refund, it's still a pain.

I *think* there is a way to convince your STB to display that information by putting it into maintenance/diagnostics/debug/whatever mode... but I don't know that for sure. Google a bit and see if you can turn that up.

FWIW, as stated above, I spot-checked about fifty channels using the Ceton diagnostics app and all of them were copy freely. I do not have any premium-for-pay channels (e.g. HBO, sports packages) so I can neither comment on nor test those.

Originally Posted by srothwell

3. Are there any better instructions for setting this all up? I looked at the the guy who wrote sagedct, but the instructions aren't so great.

The instructions may not be the best ever, but they ARE accurate, and the process is actually pretty simple. If you get stuck you can always post here and I'll do my best to work with you.

Originally Posted by srothwell

4. Maybe you said, but which OS are you using?

I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1. I'm pretty sure that Windows 7 is a *requirement* to get all of the DRM/Cablecard stuff to work. x86 or x64 shouldn't matter. I don't know what SKUs of Win7 will work - -probably any of them that include Windows Media Center.


KoB

[pluMmet]

I stumbled on this by accident while looking up cable cards for fios...

Do I understand correctly that using SageTV and Ceton I can have one computer always on in the house with one fios cable card and have all the t.v.'s in the house networked to it and watch whatever I want on all of them at the same time?

It also looks like maybe I could set up a server with this for my DVD's and BluRays (3D too?) in the same computer and get them on any t.v. in the house?

Can I do all that? Sounds amazing!

Take it easy on me...I'm fairly technical and have built my own computers for more then 20 years but never as a media server. Any help appreciated

[srothwell]

King.... thanks for all the info.

I think I will wait for either the HDHR (espeically the 6 tuner) or the extenal Ceton

I am screwing around with using Windows Server 2008R2 Enterprise and running sage in a Virtual Machine. VMs arent crazy about tyring to divy up the PCI cards, but if it's coming in via Gig-E like the HDHR does then that's another story altogether... no screwing around with USB, nothing. Very tempting.

So I think I'll wait for the HDHR, but then pick your brain when the time is right.

I'll also google to see if I can spy on my FIOS to see about the copy bit settings as I do have premium channels. I'll post my results here if I can find stuff.

Stacy

[King of Bayonne]

@pluMmet,

Generally speaking, if you take a computer (i.e. a server), connect a bunch of disks to it plus tuners which are compatible with whatever TV feed(s) you use, you can run SageTV on it and use it as a giant DVR to record n simultaneous shows. Assuming you have Sage clients (either HD-200s, HD-300s, or PCs running the Sage client software) attached to every TV/computer/whatever at your viewing locations, you can use said clients to watch recorded programs as well as tune and view live TV (i.e. no need for individual STBs). You can also use Sage to catalog and serve pictures, audio, and ripped video to those clients as well. Yes, it is pretty amazing.

Now, specifically with regard to FiOS, because it is an all-digital service and only a limited number of channels are broadcast in clear QAM, if you want to tune/record most of the FiOS channels you need a CableCard capable tuner. NB that said tuners are NOT currently supported by Sage, are useable only through means such as babgvant's wonderful SageDCT, and are not *100%* rock-solid (although pretty good IMHO). As you've seen at the top of this thread, the combination is working very well for me and I'm quite pleased... having said that, I am hopeful for a day in the (near?) future when Sage officially supports CableCard tuners.


K0B

[phunny]

To anyone using the Ceton cards, does it enforce any of the rules like a DVR you get from the cable company. Meaning certain shows cannot be recorded or only allow you to record for a certain amount of time? I know the one advantage of the Hauppage PVR (I been using for a few years) since its doing the capture from the cable company's boxes I don't get caught up in those rules. I see king above in the posts said copy is set as off is that the thing that controls this? and does any know if time warner sets it?

Any idea?

[aweber1nj]

I have this setup (almost the same as His Royal Highness, here). I can say that all channels (network, sports, movie) that I have tried to DVR via the Ceton from FIOS are copy-freely and had zero issues. I have read that it is generally true across all markets that FIOS sets the copy-freely bit. I do NOT know about stations like "NBA Season Pass" or other PPV types of stations (I do not have any). And you obviously can't use FIOS On Demand, so I couldn't test that.

I also generally agree that SageDCT is excellent, but not perfect. I still get random freezes with LiveTV about once ever 2 days. Going to continue to follow Ceton's firmware updates and SageDCT updates (I sent the dev some logs, but haven't heard back).

@pluMmet: I have a SageTV Client running on a nettop I built (and have ordered an HD300). I can watch one channel on my local STV server (monitor -- actually I use the second monitor connection and connect it to the TV in my office), and watch another channel (or the same) on the STV Client box. SD or HD stations, doesn't matter. So basically the 4 tuners can be utilized for live tv or centralized dvr (with all clients seeing a homogeneous view of the house's shows) or any combo of the two. More benefits than that, but hope that answers your specific question. I'm ditching 3 STBs back to Verizon ASAP.

BTW: I jumped on the Ceton because of the SiliconDust Prime delays and lack of accurate release dates. Now that they appear to be very close (again), if I didn't have anything already, I'd seriously consider waiting a month and seeing what arrives. I may still add it to my setup (I have a lot of TVs in addition to the Ceton tuner.

[stevech]

How do we know that SiliconDust's cableCARD products would be permitted by the cable company(ies)? In the US, they begrudgingly support TiVo. But try to get them to say they will come and install/provision a multi-stream card for SiliconDust. My cableco will not permit a customer-installed cableCARD obtained from cableco (TWC).

[aweber1nj]

I would defer to someone more experienced, but I don't think the cable co's are allowed to discriminate on the target devices, and are required to support cablecards. They "begrudgingly support" nothing...and I'm sure they hate TiVos because it directly competes with their DVR products.

Verizon does not permit self-installs either. Didn't stop the guy from showing-up at my house with one and letting me put it in my PC (which he then had to call-in to activate for me). Most of the cable companies won't know what you're talking about anyway, so if you order the card they'll send someone out, but if they ask, you can say it's for a TiVo. The guy (or girl) dispatched isn't going to know anyway.

[phunny]

[QUOTE=aweber1nj;496621]I have this setup (almost the same as His Royal Highness, here). I can say that all channels (network, sports, movie) that I have tried to DVR via the Ceton from FIOS are copy-freely and had zero issues. I have read that it is generally true across all markets that FIOS sets the copy-freely bit. I do NOT know about stations like "NBA Season Pass" or other PPV types of stations (I do not have any). And you obviously can't use FIOS On Demand, so I couldn't test that.

Thank you for the reply. I will be using on a time warner system, I wasn't looking to circumvent any security just to make sure I can record things in the same manner I can today with the cable boxes. Then eliminate the box rental, external boxes for capture etc. I bet this would also allow the room I keep everything in to be cooler

Have you noticed the server CPU being consumed more with the card?

Thanks

[aepitaz]

I have repeated the steps above for a successful install.

My System:

Running SageTV 7.0 with a HP 2250 using two tuners (QAM and a CableBox with USB UIRT). Have been a FIOS customer for 4 years.

My systems is a I3 CPU with 2 SATA disks each at 2TB. One serves as the system drive and is where the software is installed, the other servers as the media drive where all recording takes place. Memory is at 4GB.

Installing the CETON:
I picked up my CETON through Amazon, and had it delivered 4 days later. The card install was complicated only by the inability of my box to boot with the card in a x16 slot. In an x8 slot it worked fine. I installed the drivers from CETON using the installation program downloaded from their support website. Drivers went fine.

I made the mistake of doing the Media Center installation without the cablecard installed. Don't do this, I had to clean it out later. Wait for your cablecard install.

CableCard Install:
I had Verizon come. Tech gave me the card. I shutdown the system, inserted the card and rebooted. Wait about a minute and then launched the CETON diagnostics. Got the pairing information, gave it to the tech waited 10 minutes and was good to go. The Tech left after giving me a MOCA filter to install later.

As mentioned above, I had tried to go through the Media Center install previously which was a mistake. So I cleared out all of the drivers and started fresh. Performed the full Media Center installation as per CETON instructions. Was able to tune multiple channels through Media Center.

SAGE Install:
I did a fresh reboot, shut down sage services, and downloaded SageDCT. Ran a clean installation, added the configuration to the sage.properties files and started Sage.

Sage saw the tuners right away. I got NULL address settings the first time, so I uninstalled the tuners in Sage and reinstalled them getting a clean list. Then it was simply a matter of applying the channel lineups as per usual tuner installs.

What I have seen work:
On my systems I have seen 5 total recordings happening at the same time. CPU runs around 75% especially at the very end when Comskip starts at the end of the programs.

I am getting all of my expected channels including Pay Movie channels. I am in the process of ripping out my cable boxes this week for return.

Channel changing is smooth with only 1-2 second delay.

So far, very happy with the progress.

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I'm really getting tired of the "ha ha, I have FIOS and you don't" threads. It just isn't fair to poke fun at us...

Glad you got everything working. Maybe hell will freeze over and I'll get FIOS in my area...

Thats why i wouldnt post threads like this... FIOS is going to read it and turn off copy freely... shhhhhhhhh !!!!!

[GbrNole]

i'm pretty sure i have read elsewhere that Verizon allows copy freely or otherwise their whole home video sharing wont work properly?

definitely a boon for FIOS customers whatever the reason.